|
Random Politics & Religion #00
By fonewear 2015-09-24 13:51:18
If you haven't watched A Clockwork Orange you need to right now !
Phoenix.Xantavia
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 449
By Phoenix.Xantavia 2015-09-24 16:08:10
In papal news:
Pope Francis's take in US Politics
Quote: With the first words that Pope Francis uttered publicly on American soil, he made it clear Wednesday that he does not intend to sidestep the deeply divisive issues that are roiling this country — and indeed, that he plans to fully employ his voice and influence as the spiritual leader of nearly 80 million Roman Catholics in the U.S.
Amid the pageantry of a welcoming ceremony on the White House lawn, the first pope from the Americas introduced himself as “the son of an immigrant family. I am happy to be a guest in this country, which was largely built by such families.”
Coming from a Hispanic pontiff, those words were an unmistakable reference to an issue that has come to dominate much of the race for the 2016 Republican nomination, in which front-runner Donald Trump has vowed to deport the estimated 11 million immigrants who are in this country illegally and revoke the constitutional guarantee of citizenship to anyone born here.
The national spotlight will be fixed firmly on the pope for the next week, as throngs of Americans come out to participate in his tour of the United States, which will include an address Thursday to a joint session of Congress. He was invited there by House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), who is Catholic. In the audience will be at least three of the 15 Republican contenders for president.
In his brief address at the White House, delivered in English, the pope also congratulated President Obama for "proposing an initiative for reducing air pollution. Accepting the urgency, it seems clear to me also that climate change is a problem which can no longer be left to a future generation."
Obama's views and those of the pope on the issue of climate change fall squarely on the liberal side of the political divide.
At the same time, some of the pope's words on other subjects reinforced arguments that are being made by conservatives.
He noted the efforts of American Catholics toward "building a society which is truly tolerant and inclusive, to safeguarding the rights of individuals and communities, and to rejecting every form of discrimination."
Francis added: "They are likewise concerned that efforts to build a just and wisely ordered society respect their deepest concerns and their right to religious liberty. That freedom remains one of America's most precious possessions."
The pope specifically noted that a priority of the U.S. bishops has been "to be vigilant, precisely as good citizens, to preserve and defend that freedom from everything that would threaten or compromise it."
For many American conservatives, the threat has become more urgent with the recent U.S. Supreme Court decision legalizing same-sex marriage, which is anathema to the teaching of the Catholic church and some other religions. Since the Supreme Court decision, there has been concern that faith-based groups that hold fast to traditional teachings could lose their tax-exempt status, though many church lawyers think they are protected.
Francis noted that he will be attending the World Meeting of Families in Philadelphia, "to celebrate and support the institutions of marriage and the family at this, a critical moment in the history of our civilization." Francis has in the past called the rise of gay equality a “new sin against God.”
You know, I respect the man who is probably the most marked for assassination due to his religion for speaking in public. But his viewpoints in foreign politics is about as meaningful as a US citizen going to Italy and making comments about Italian politics...which is basically what he is doing.
No doubt his words have influence, but still...he shouldn't bother with topics that are unfamiliar to him. Isn't the pope also the head of a sovereign state? That should easily qualify him to comment on politics in other countries. Same thing as Obama or any other world leaders putting in their 2 cents about how another country does their business. Depends on if you consider Vatican City as a sovereign state.
It doesn't fit the definition of one, but people will disagree with me out of principle. Not disagreeing with you just because. A quick search gave me this information.
Quote: 1. Vatican City is the smallest country in the world.
Encircled by a 2-mile border with Italy, Vatican City is an independent city-state that covers just over 100 acres, making it one-eighth the size of New York’s Central Park. Vatican City is governed as an absolute monarchy with the pope at its head. The Vatican mints its own euros, prints its own stamps, issues passports and license plates, operates media outlets and has its own flag and anthem. One government function it lacks: taxation. Museum admission fees, stamp and souvenir sales, and contributions generate the Vatican’s revenue. Seems to be officially recognized as a city-state.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-24 16:11:47
You are right.
My apologies.
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2015-09-24 16:12:27
Olive Garden is not truly authentic Italian cuisine !
Even the breadsticks?!
I watched the Pope's speech before Congress. I feel that he's hypocrite and lost a lot of respect for him. He made some subtle jabs at same-sex marriage, abortion, and planned parenthood.
When he was making those jabs I felt like saying something about all the children his priests have raped.
[+]
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-24 16:14:54
Meh, as long as he doesn't attempt to backseat rule this country, he can say whatever he wants to. To me, I tend to ignore a person's opinion about the US who has never stepped foot here, what does that person know about internal US politics?
Valefor.Sehachan
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-09-24 16:16:01
Homosexual marriage and abortion are not us-specific. They're social topics that partain the whole world.
[+]
Forum Moderator
サーバ: Excalibur
Game: FFXIV
Posts: 25993
By Anna Ruthven 2015-09-24 16:16:24
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-24 16:18:24
Homosexual marriage and abortion are not us-specific. They're social topics that partain the whole world. So?
Do you think it's ok for somebody outside your country to go to your capital and tell your politicians what to do?
Because if so, I'll be over there in Italy in a bit and give them an earful.
[+]
Forum Moderator
サーバ: Excalibur
Game: FFXIV
Posts: 25993
By Anna Ruthven 2015-09-24 16:24:07
Homosexual marriage and abortion are not us-specific. They're social topics that partain the whole world. So?
Do you think it's ok for somebody outside your country to go to your capital and tell your politicians what to do?
Because if so, I'll be over there in Italy in a bit and give them an earful. While I didn't watch the speech, you have to remember that this was the Pope. What he says, on national TV, WILL be pandering to those who follow the Catholic faith. He didn't get to be the Pope for saying things that Catholics vehemently disagree with and he will likely only say otherwise when it is beneficial to the Catholic church. After he leaves, some politicians shrug, others buy in and touch upon it for the Catholic votes, but for the most part things go back to business as usual.
tl;dr US Politicians welcomed the Pope but most likely don't give a ***about what he had to say. It's for show.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-24 16:27:08
Homosexual marriage and abortion are not us-specific. They're social topics that partain the whole world. So?
Do you think it's ok for somebody outside your country to go to your capital and tell your politicians what to do?
Because if so, I'll be over there in Italy in a bit and give them an earful. While I didn't watch the speech, you have to remember that this was the Pope. What he says, on national TV, WILL be pandering to those who follow the Catholic faith. He didn't get to be the Pope for saying things that Catholics vehemently disagree with and he will likely only say otherwise when it is beneficial to the Catholic church. After he leaves, some politicians shrug, others buy in and touch upon it for the Catholic votes, but for the most part things go back to business as usual.
tl;dr US Politicians welcomed the Pope but most likely don't give a ***about what he had to say. It's for show. I don't disagree with you. I just find it audacious that they allowed him to be critical to the US that way. I didn't watch his speech either, just caught the highlights and found them disgusting.
I'm not saying this because I'm not religious either. But then again, our SOS does pretty much the same thing at other countries, so I guess we should just roll with the punches. Or stop that practice period...
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-09-24 16:29:43
Well apparently, the pope's speech made Boehner cry. Ok then.
[+]
Forum Moderator
サーバ: Excalibur
Game: FFXIV
Posts: 25993
By Anna Ruthven 2015-09-24 16:30:36
Homosexual marriage and abortion are not us-specific. They're social topics that partain the whole world. So?
Do you think it's ok for somebody outside your country to go to your capital and tell your politicians what to do?
Because if so, I'll be over there in Italy in a bit and give them an earful. While I didn't watch the speech, you have to remember that this was the Pope. What he says, on national TV, WILL be pandering to those who follow the Catholic faith. He didn't get to be the Pope for saying things that Catholics vehemently disagree with and he will likely only say otherwise when it is beneficial to the Catholic church. After he leaves, some politicians shrug, others buy in and touch upon it for the Catholic votes, but for the most part things go back to business as usual.
tl;dr US Politicians welcomed the Pope but most likely don't give a ***about what he had to say. It's for show. I don't disagree with you. I just find it audacious that they allowed him to be critical to the US that way. I didn't watch his speech either, just caught the highlights and found them disgusting.
I'm not saying this because I'm not religious either. But then again, our SOS does pretty much the same thing at other countries, so I guess we should just roll with the punches. Or stop that practice period... Well, I mean, you don't really talk back to someone who is seen as infallible by at least 22% of the people who decide if you get to keep your job and possibly decide upon your next job.
Forum Moderator
サーバ: Excalibur
Game: FFXIV
Posts: 25993
By Anna Ruthven 2015-09-24 16:31:06
Well apparently, the pope's speech made Boehner cry. Ok then. Imagine that!
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3686
By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-09-24 16:32:44
Answering the real questions with clarity.
Thats how he answers all of the questions, its what stirred up the Muslim talk.
It's because when he gives his real ideas, people realize that he is a Democrat running as a Republican.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-24 16:33:03
Homosexual marriage and abortion are not us-specific. They're social topics that partain the whole world. So?
Do you think it's ok for somebody outside your country to go to your capital and tell your politicians what to do?
Because if so, I'll be over there in Italy in a bit and give them an earful. While I didn't watch the speech, you have to remember that this was the Pope. What he says, on national TV, WILL be pandering to those who follow the Catholic faith. He didn't get to be the Pope for saying things that Catholics vehemently disagree with and he will likely only say otherwise when it is beneficial to the Catholic church. After he leaves, some politicians shrug, others buy in and touch upon it for the Catholic votes, but for the most part things go back to business as usual.
tl;dr US Politicians welcomed the Pope but most likely don't give a ***about what he had to say. It's for show. I don't disagree with you. I just find it audacious that they allowed him to be critical to the US that way. I didn't watch his speech either, just caught the highlights and found them disgusting.
I'm not saying this because I'm not religious either. But then again, our SOS does pretty much the same thing at other countries, so I guess we should just roll with the punches. Or stop that practice period... Well, I mean, you don't really talk back to someone who is seen as infallible by at least 22% of the people who decide if you get to keep your job and possibly decide upon your next job. Meh.
I'm not saying we shouldn't respect the guy though. If he wants to come visit, then let him. Shouldn't let him make policy speeches though, or at the very least invite him to do so.
Forum Moderator
サーバ: Excalibur
Game: FFXIV
Posts: 25993
By Anna Ruthven 2015-09-24 16:39:31
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2015-09-24 16:54:50
Homosexual marriage and abortion are not us-specific. They're social topics that partain the whole world.
If they are "not" US specific, then why is he at the US Capital? Why is he speaking before Congress? Why not just speak at Vatican City?
While the topics are not US specific, his speech most certainly is. He did it to call into question particular US policies and upcoming laws.
It's both disrespectful and distasteful. The Church has no right to speak on matters of science/medicine, let alone federal laws.
[+]
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-09-24 16:57:53
He was invited to speak to Congress so he spoke. /shrug
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2015-09-24 17:06:17
He was invited to speak to Congress so he spoke. /shrug
When you get invited somewhere you generally don't go to disrespect people. That's like getting invited to dinner and insulting/correcting people when you get there.
Administrator
サーバ: Hyperion
Game: FFXIV
Posts: 701
By Drama Torama 2015-09-24 17:07:56
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »The Church has no right to speak on matters of science/medicine, let alone federal laws
In his defense, most of Congress isn't really qualified to talk about any of that stuff either
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2015-09-24 17:14:14
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »The Church has no right to speak on matters of science/medicine, let alone federal laws
In his defense, most of Congress isn't really qualified to talk about any of that stuff either
In the defense of Congress, they haven't been proven wrong on matters of science since the days of Galileo.
[+]
By Jassik 2015-09-24 17:15:36
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »Homosexual marriage and abortion are not us-specific. They're social topics that partain the whole world.
If they are "not" US specific, then why is he at the US Capital? Why is he speaking before Congress? Why not just speak at Vatican City?
While the topics are not US specific, his speech most certainly is. He did it to call into question particular US policies and upcoming laws.
It's both disrespectful and distasteful. The Church has no right to speak on matters of science/medicine, let alone federal laws.
The pope frequently serves as a mediator and advisor to other nations. It's not like that's a new thing. I don't like the idea of religious leaders speaking before Congress in a religious context, and his speech wasn't religious, though it was very Christian.
The Catholic church actually has a long history of investigating and practicing science and medicine. They've even got official positions in those fields, they even have an observatory.
If you really want to get pedantic, he was here as the leader of a sovereign nation, and I didn't hear many people complaining about Netanyahu telling congress what they should do.
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2015-09-24 17:17:46
I suppose it's different. If you had a religious body questioning your federal rights before congress you'd be a bit ticked off too.
[+]
[+]
By Jassik 2015-09-24 17:21:39
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »I suppose it's different. If you had a religious body questioning your federal rights before congress you'd be a bit ticked off too.
I'm not sure which federal rights you're referring to. I don't like religious ideology affecting affairs of state on any level unless they coincide with secular ideology. "Murder is bad", for example, isn't an exclusively religious idea. I wouldn't even have a problem with banning abortion if there was a secular ideology behind it, like radically declining population or if we discovered that zygotes had consciousness, etc.
[+]
By Jassik 2015-09-24 17:22:54
You lead a religion with a billion people worldwide and key countries around the world are large parts of huge conflict?
why wouldnt you go visit them and try to talk to them?
Not to mention the USA has a lot of influence, for good or bad, throughout the world and convincing us to take up a cause for the future of humanity has more impact than convincing Belgium, for example.
Random Politics & Religion is for topics that aren't thread worthy on their own and do not have their own existing thread.
Rules and Guidelines
Forum Rules and P&R Section Guidelines still apply.
Satire is tolerated.
If your topic covers a story over 6 months old (Watergate, Benghazi, 2012 Election, etc.) post it here.
Discussions on racism, homophobia, transphobia, and the like are allowed, targeted insults based on these will not be tolerated.
Political debates get heated and are meant to be intense, if you take offense to being called or proven wrong, you don't belong here.
If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen; if you prove you can't handle the criticism you bring upon yourself in this thread, you may be removed from it. You are responsible for what you post.
Along those lines, heat is fine, but sustained, clearly personal hostility is not okay. The personal attack rules still apply. Attack positions, not posters. Failure to adhere to this will result in your removal from the thread.
This thread is NOT the Flame Core.
These rules are subject to change and modification where and when needed.
Random Politics & Religion may be mained or demained depending on the activity within at a Moderator's discretion.
With that out of the way, let the debates begin!
/bow
|
|