Drama Torama said: »
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There's a sale, at costco.
Random Politics & Religion #00
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Random Politics & Religion #00
There's a sale, at costco. Jetackuu said: » Calling 4 people shot a "mass shooting" is a big stretch. By definition a mass shooting is when a gunman opens fire on a large group of people. The number of fatalities is irrelevant. Asura.Kingnobody said: » Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » Every time I hear "WELL PEOPLE COULD DO THIS WITH A KNIFE!" I just cup my brain and tell the neurons that it's all going to be ok. Yes, someone can take out 10 people with a knife. And I thought I was the one watching too many Steven Seagal movies... It's not rare either. And it can be just as quick as a gun would do, just with less noise. Your own sources show that knife attacks injure, but kill less than gun attacks. Mainly cause I dunno, guns are more efficient. That's not the point being made. Of course you can kill mass people with a knife. The point is... killing people with a knife is not trivial and many of the high profile attacks in the US simply would not have happened as they did with knives. A mass murder in a church with a knife? Twice in a theater? Yeah, nope. Guns make things easier. The 2A argument of more guns is a recipe for disaster and yet gun control isn't going to work in the US with the way this country fetishizes weapons. I'm actually at a loss for an answer but the tired NRA talking points are silly. Where are those good guys with guns again? Paging good guys with guns. Aeyela said: » Jetackuu said: » Calling 4 people shot a "mass shooting" is a big stretch. By definition a mass shooting is when a gunman opens fire on a large group of people. The number of fatalities is irrelevant. I didn't say fatalities, I said shot. I highly doubt that most of that list fits that definition, I mean considering one of the (assuming this is the "article" you're referencing) events it listed doesn't even fit that definition. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/01/2015-274-days-294-mass-shootings-hundreds-dead/ Jetackuu said: » I didn't say fatalities, I said shot. I highly doubt that most of that list fits that definition, I mean considering one of the (assuming this is the "article" you're referencing) events it listed doesn't even fit that definition. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/01/2015-274-days-294-mass-shootings-hundreds-dead/ http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34422235 P+R is far tamer than Flame Core in its heyday. Alot of people get stupid but really thats nothing handing out permabans couldn't solve.
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Aeyela said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Again, I'm not denying that. I'm just showing you that it is just as possible to have non-gun related mass murders as it is to have gun-related mass murders. Well played. Show us 292 more examples and then we'll be level with mass shootings in 2015. Again, I don't think anyone is denying that either. But that doesn't mean that the number of murders will automatically go down by the amount of gun-related murders if we ban all guns, it means that people will find an alternative method to kill people regardless of what weapon is used. Asura.Floppyseconds said: » Thinking back to the flamecore, before ads pull, etc the culture of the site was more vitriolic. Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » P+R is far tamer than Flame Core in its heydey. Alot of people get stupid but really thats nothing handing out permabans couldn't solve. LIKE OUR GUN LAWS... SIMPLY ENFORCING THE PERMABANS THAT WERE ALREADY IN PLACE WOULD SOLVE A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS! /spikes the football and does an endzone dance
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Asura.Kingnobody said: » But that doesn't mean that the number of murders will automatically go down by the amount of gun-related murders if we ban all guns, it means that people will find an alternative method to kill people regardless of what weapon is used. It doesn't, I agree, but what it does is remove the ability to go on those sprees from a lot of the nutters and lowers the devastation said nutters can inflict when they do. Aeyela said: » Jetackuu said: » I didn't say fatalities, I said shot. I highly doubt that most of that list fits that definition, I mean considering one of the (assuming this is the "article" you're referencing) events it listed doesn't even fit that definition. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/01/2015-274-days-294-mass-shootings-hundreds-dead/ http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34422235 article said: The killing of nine people in an Oregon college is the 294th "mass shooting" in the US this year, according to one definition of such tragedies. The 26-year-old gunman opened fire at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg on Thursday morning and was killed in a police shootout. But how often do such attacks take place? BBC Washington correspondent Rajini Vaidyanathan has been finding out. Doesn't really say much, unless you're talking about the video, cuz "ain't nobody got time for that." Arm everyone in P+R with ban powers and this forum would be cleaned up within a week. We need to stop relying on the MODS to handle the problems we could handle OURSELVES.
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I think we all (but Jet) can agree that guns make it easier to kill people.
I think that the argument not being addressed is that people are just as capable of killing others without guns as they are with. We are arguing the one argument that we are all in agreement (except Jet) with.... I was just sharing my source.
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » P+R is far tamer than Flame Core in its heyday. Alot of people get stupid but really thats nothing handing out permabans couldn't solve. Well, sure. But "better than the Flame Core" is a pretty low bar, and we can be better than that. The reason I've made so much noise about this in the last day or so is three-fold; 1) Let people know that this is a real problem and if they don't self-regulate there will be changes 2) If we go with the stricter rules, no one has any right to be surprised when that happens 3) A couple days of people minding their manners reminds us all that this place is so much better when it's civil Just work with me, here.
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Asura.Kingnobody said: » I think we all (but Jet) can agree that guns make it easier to kill people. I think that the argument not being addressed is that people are just as capable of killing others without guns as they are with. We are arguing the one argument that we are all in agreement (except Jet) with.... People will always kill people. People with guns are more efficient at facilitating massacres. The idea that more guns will bring about more peace is completely unfounded. The idea that good guys with guns will preempt massacres is unfounded. The idea that we can wave a magic gun wand and make guns dissapear is fantasytalk. Aeyela said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » But that doesn't mean that the number of murders will automatically go down by the amount of gun-related murders if we ban all guns, it means that people will find an alternative method to kill people regardless of what weapon is used. It doesn't, I agree, but what it does is remove the ability to go on those sprees from a lot of the nutters and lowers the devastation said nutters can inflict when they do. Will they kill as many people as quickly? Most likely not. Will they still kill? Yes. Asura.Kingnobody said: » I think that the argument not being addressed is that people are just as capable of killing others without guns as they are with. Only if you look at this from a black and white perspective. It's not a case of "You can kill" or "You can't". There's varying degrees by which these nutters can kill and ready access to guns make it far easier, far more deadly and far quicker. Drama Torama said: » Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » P+R is far tamer than Flame Core in its heyday. Alot of people get stupid but really thats nothing handing out permabans couldn't solve. Well, sure. But "better than the Flame Core" is a pretty low bar, and we can be better than that. The reason I've made so much noise about this in the last day or so is three-fold; 1) Let people know that this is a real problem and if they don't self-regulate there will be changes 2) If we go with the stricter rules, no one has any right to be surprised when that happens 3) A couple days of people minding their manners reminds us all that this place is so much better when it's civil Just work with me, here. Shiva.Nikolce said: » Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » P+R is far tamer than Flame Core in its heydey. Alot of people get stupid but really thats nothing handing out permabans couldn't solve. LIKE OUR GUN LAWS... SIMPLY ENFORCING THE PERMABANS THAT WERE ALREADY IN PLACE WOULD SOLVE A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS! /spikes the football and does an endzone dance The two obvious targets for that, one was back well before I was promoted, and the second was nuked years ago (and would be eligible to come back under current rules). Both are aware that their leashes are shorter than others'. Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » The idea that more guns will bring about more peace is completely unfounded. We cannot have a discussion if you are referring to the viewpoints of people who are not part of the discussion.... Siren.Mosin said: » Mass shootings are all JFK's fault. A Catholic getting shot is not a Mass shooting, words mean things
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Asura.Kingnobody said: » Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » The idea that more guns will bring about more peace is completely unfounded. We cannot have a discussion if you are referring to the viewpoints of people who are not part of the discussion.... Jets argument is that more guns, by following the strict word of the 2A will bring about more 'peace'. Because guns are a human right for defense. I know he's passionate about this topic (lord knows, I'll never forget personal nuclear weapons) but it's a common argument heard here and outside XIAH.
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Aeyela said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » I think that the argument not being addressed is that people are just as capable of killing others without guns as they are with. Only if you look at this from a black and white perspective. It's not a case of "You can kill" or "You can't". There's varying degrees by which these nutters can kill and ready access to guns make it far easier, far more deadly and far quicker. By then, those "nutters" are already committed to murder, just the act of breaking the law is proof enough of that. deinstitutionalization was started under his watch.
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Aeyela said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » But that doesn't mean that the number of murders will automatically go down by the amount of gun-related murders if we ban all guns, it means that people will find an alternative method to kill people regardless of what weapon is used. It doesn't, I agree, but what it does is remove the ability to go on those sprees from a lot of the nutters and lowers the devastation said nutters can inflict when they do. Can't say for sure on some of the others, but I would have hate to have seen what Adam Lanza would have done with explosives, he apparently certainly had the mind and the means are easy enough. |
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