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George Takei vs Hobby Lobby
Caitsith.Zahrah
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-07-14 11:02:09
So, Nausi, just wondering what you think when an egg is fertilized, attached, then flushed out by natural means? By your definition of the process, when would it become a miscarriage? Also, "accidental ovulation"?
EDIT: You know within the first six weeks, sometimes things get naturally "flushed out" without someone even knowing they're pregnant (by your definition). You realize this, right?
Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-14 11:05:37
But on topic,
Quote: But even after the egg is fertilized, it’s still six or seven days before it reaches the uterus and pregnancy begins, and not every egg makes it that far. Eighty percent of a woman’s fertilized eggs are rinsed and flushed out of her body once a month during those delightful few days she has. They wind up on sanitary napkins, and yet they are fertilized eggs. So basically what these anti-abortion people are telling us is that any woman who’s had more than more than one period is a serial killer!
--George Carlin, gracefully combining common sense with humor. He is missed.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-14 11:05:58
Abortion - the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.
She has to be pregnant (which requires implantation and development) AND it has to be deliberately removed. Again, if you start using the correct words, you might have some kind of argument. As it sits, you're still using sensationalized language to appeal to emotion instead of debating the facts. It's not infanticide, foeticide, or abortion.
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Lakshmi.Flavin
サーバ: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-07-14 11:22:28
Why are Churches tax exempt?
They are Tax Exempt, yet my tax dollars go for their protection and federal/state entitlements (of which they have many) doesn't that make them a government subsidy?
So on the grounds of my Religious Freedom, do I get to not pay taxes until the Church Exemption is removed?
I know you're being facetious, but this is the fundamental disconnect between rational people and religious people. Why are only openly religious people's freedoms acknowledged in any tangible way? Religious organizations are not the only organizations that have tax exempt status.
Out of curiosity in which way would you like people freedom's acknowledged in a tanglible way similar to Openly religious peoples? Or just an example of how they could be.
I'd be ok if religious organizations lost their tax exempt status...
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-14 11:30:00
Why are Churches tax exempt?
They are Tax Exempt, yet my tax dollars go for their protection and federal/state entitlements (of which they have many) doesn't that make them a government subsidy?
So on the grounds of my Religious Freedom, do I get to not pay taxes until the Church Exemption is removed?
I know you're being facetious, but this is the fundamental disconnect between rational people and religious people. Why are only openly religious people's freedoms acknowledged in any tangible way? Religious organizations are not the only organizations that have tax exempt status.
Out of curiosity in which way would you like people freedom's acknowledged in a tanglible way similar to Openly religious peoples? Or just an example of how they could be.
I'd be ok if religious organizations lost their tax exempt status...
I would like any interest group or lobbying group to be barred from tax exempt status and I'd like any religious interest group to be barred from lobbying in general. Legislating religious edicts is blatantly in violation of that precious first amendment we all like to champion when it applies to us. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-07-14 11:42:50
Why are Churches tax exempt?
They are Tax Exempt, yet my tax dollars go for their protection and federal/state entitlements (of which they have many) doesn't that make them a government subsidy?
So on the grounds of my Religious Freedom, do I get to not pay taxes until the Church Exemption is removed?
I know you're being facetious, but this is the fundamental disconnect between rational people and religious people. Why are only openly religious people's freedoms acknowledged in any tangible way? Religious organizations are not the only organizations that have tax exempt status.
Out of curiosity in which way would you like people freedom's acknowledged in a tanglible way similar to Openly religious peoples? Or just an example of how they could be.
I'd be ok if religious organizations lost their tax exempt status...
I don't understand the question. Freedom is simply the concept of not having external will forced upon one's person. That means only pure anarchy is true freedom.
Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2014-07-14 11:46:37
I don't understand the question. Freedom is simply the concept of not having external will forced upon one's person. That means only pure anarchy is true freedom. And then ONLY if someone else doesn't take that freedom since there's nothing protecting it but yourself.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-07-14 11:49:22
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »I don't understand the question. Freedom is simply the concept of not having external will forced upon one's person. That means only pure anarchy is true freedom. And then ONLY if someone else doesn't take that freedom since there's nothing protecting it but yourself.
Not wanting to push the discussion in another direction, but this is the heart of the 2nd amendment. Weapons are tools of agency. You can't be "Free" if you're without agency in life. The philosophical underpinnings of the 2nd amendment are far greater than they're afforded time for in debates.
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By fonewear 2014-07-14 11:59:38
So, Nausi, just wondering what you think when an egg is fertilized, attached, then flushed out by natural means? By your definition of the process, when would it become a miscarriage? Also, "accidental ovulation"?
EDIT: You know within the first six weeks, sometimes things get naturally "flushed out" without someone even knowing they're pregnant (by your definition). You realize this, right?
Brown or white egg ?
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-14 12:00:20
So, Nausi, just wondering what you think when an egg is fertilized, attached, then flushed out by natural means? By your definition of the process, when would it become a miscarriage? Also, "accidental ovulation"?
EDIT: You know within the first six weeks, sometimes things get naturally "flushed out" without someone even knowing they're pregnant (by your definition). You realize this, right?
Brown or white egg ?
By fonewear 2014-07-14 12:01:50
I prefer brown eggs they are delicious.
I am color blind to chicken eggs therefore not racist !
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Cerberus.Pleebo
サーバ: Cerberus
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Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-07-14 12:17:15
I lost track of the list but I'm pretty sure I had added 'pregnancy' at some point.
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サーバ: Bahamut
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Posts: 5381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2014-07-14 12:18:06
I prefer brown eggs they are delicious.
I am color blind to chicken eggs therefore not racist !
I discriminate them both equally. Egg Beaters or gtfo.
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Ragnarok.Nausi
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Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-07-14 12:19:36
Abortion - the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.
She has to be pregnant (which requires implantation and development) AND it has to be deliberately removed. Again, if you start using the correct words, you might have some kind of argument. As it sits, you're still using sensationalized language to appeal to emotion instead of debating the facts. It's not infanticide, foeticide, or abortion.
An aborted pregnancy (an "abortion") does not need to be deliberate/intentional.
So, Nausi, just wondering what you think when an egg is fertilized, attached, then flushed out by natural means? By your definition of the process, when would it become a miscarriage? Also, "accidental ovulation"?
EDIT: You know within the first six weeks, sometimes things get naturally "flushed out" without someone even knowing they're pregnant (by your definition). You realize this, right?
A miscarriage is by definition, a "naturally" aborted pregnancy.
Also, I meant conception, not ovulation. I misspoke.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-14 12:19:42
I prefer my eggs poached, so I'd better watch out for game wardens.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2014-07-14 12:20:26
I prefer my eggs poached, so I'd better watch out for game wardens.
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Ragnarok.Nausi
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Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-07-14 12:21:58
I just had lunch but that sure does look tasty!
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-14 12:23:47
Abortion - the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.
She has to be pregnant (which requires implantation and development) AND it has to be deliberately removed. Again, if you start using the correct words, you might have some kind of argument. As it sits, you're still using sensationalized language to appeal to emotion instead of debating the facts. It's not infanticide, foeticide, or abortion.
An aborted pregnancy (an "abortion") does not need to be deliberate/intentional.
So, Nausi, just wondering what you think when an egg is fertilized, attached, then flushed out by natural means? By your definition of the process, when would it become a miscarriage? Also, "accidental ovulation"?
EDIT: You know within the first six weeks, sometimes things get naturally "flushed out" without someone even knowing they're pregnant (by your definition). You realize this, right?
A miscarriage is by definition, a "naturally" aborted pregnancy.
Also, I meant conception, not ovulation. I misspoke.
By it's very definition, it does need to be deliberate. If it's not deliberate, it would be a failed pregnancy or miscarriage.
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-07-14 12:23:56
hollandaise makes everything ok.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-07-14 12:25:52
Oh boy, semantic debate. This should be productive.
By Jetackuu 2014-07-14 12:29:20
Women expel eggs from their body every month. If the eggs is fertilized or has become an embryo or a fetus, this is an abortion, otherwise known as an aborted pregnancy.
You're all wet on this one bud. An abortion is the termination of pregnancy by the removal or expulsion from the uterus of a fetus or embryo before fetal viability (that's right from wiki). Many hormonal birth controls (including the IUD) purposely alter the uterus so that fertilized eggs (if accidental ovulation does indeed occur) are rejected and cannot attach to the walls of the uterus. source? as your statements, nor medical science or nature line up with your assertion/point of view, you yourself cited it.
By Jetackuu 2014-07-14 12:30:15
Oh boy, semantic debate. This should be productive. Most arguments are about semantics, as it changes the entire structure of the conversation...
Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-14 12:34:26
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »I prefer my eggs poached, so I'd better watch out for game wardens.
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »I prefer my eggs poached, so I'd better watch out for game wardens.
Can't see the picture here, but please tell me it's Archer throwing away Woodhouse and/or Cheryl's clothes.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-14 12:35:15
hollandaise makes everything ok.
Actually not a big fan. It's far, far too rich.
By Jetackuu 2014-07-14 12:37:23
I can't eat eggs anymore :'(
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-07-14 12:37:48
hollandaise makes everything ok.
Actually not a big fan. It's far, far too rich.
awwwww man!
get a filet mignon, put it on an english muffin, with some hollandaise & asparagus.....
/homersimpsondrools
my god...
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Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-07-14 12:41:03
Abortion - the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.
She has to be pregnant (which requires implantation and development) AND it has to be deliberately removed. Again, if you start using the correct words, you might have some kind of argument. As it sits, you're still using sensationalized language to appeal to emotion instead of debating the facts. It's not infanticide, foeticide, or abortion.
An aborted pregnancy (an "abortion") does not need to be deliberate/intentional.
So, Nausi, just wondering what you think when an egg is fertilized, attached, then flushed out by natural means? By your definition of the process, when would it become a miscarriage? Also, "accidental ovulation"?
EDIT: You know within the first six weeks, sometimes things get naturally "flushed out" without someone even knowing they're pregnant (by your definition). You realize this, right?
A miscarriage is by definition, a "naturally" aborted pregnancy.
Also, I meant conception, not ovulation. I misspoke.
By it's very definition, it does need to be deliberate. If it's not deliberate, it would be a failed pregnancy or miscarriage.
Ok I'll revise, correct words are indeed important.
"Deliberate" doesn't solely mean by some extraneous method outside of natural human physiology (which is what I took your statement to mean). When a woman has her period, her body deliberately expels the egg.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
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Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-14 12:41:22
Cook your steak right and don't ruin it with sauces!
...are we in the Random thread or still in the Hobby Lobby nonsense thread? ***. I've lost track.
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-07-14 12:48:32
Cook your steak right and don't ruin it with sauces!
we're talking a filet here, not a ribeye.
we should be enemies.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-14 12:50:26
Abortion - the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.
She has to be pregnant (which requires implantation and development) AND it has to be deliberately removed. Again, if you start using the correct words, you might have some kind of argument. As it sits, you're still using sensationalized language to appeal to emotion instead of debating the facts. It's not infanticide, foeticide, or abortion.
An aborted pregnancy (an "abortion") does not need to be deliberate/intentional.
So, Nausi, just wondering what you think when an egg is fertilized, attached, then flushed out by natural means? By your definition of the process, when would it become a miscarriage? Also, "accidental ovulation"?
EDIT: You know within the first six weeks, sometimes things get naturally "flushed out" without someone even knowing they're pregnant (by your definition). You realize this, right?
A miscarriage is by definition, a "naturally" aborted pregnancy.
Also, I meant conception, not ovulation. I misspoke.
By it's very definition, it does need to be deliberate. If it's not deliberate, it would be a failed pregnancy or miscarriage.
Ok I'll revise, correct words are indeed important.
"Deliberate" doesn't solely mean by some extraneous method outside of natural human physiology (which is what I took your statement to mean). When a woman has her period, her body deliberately expels the egg.
Deliberate - done consciously and intentionally
How can an autonomous bodily process be considered deliberate? Seriously, dude, either you have no grasp of English or you're just trolling.
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Wow he isn't giving up!
George Takei: What if Muslims Owned Hobby Lobby and Tried Imposing Sharia Law on Employees?
Quote: I’ve often said that these conservatives wading into the tricky waters of claiming “religious freedom” to justify breaking (or passing) laws should really be careful what they wish for. It’s advice I’d give to all of those conservatives who are celebrating the Supreme Court’s Hobby Lobby ruling.
And based on his brilliant response to that ruling, George Takei seems to be an individual who understands this as well.
Posting his response on the website for his play Allegiance, Takei made several fantastic points concerning not only the hypocrisy of this ruling, but the dangerous precedent it could set going forward.
Takei wrote, “The ruling elevates the rights of a FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION over those of its women employees and opens the door to all manner of claims that a company can refuse services based on its owner’s religion.”
“Think about the ramifications: As Justice Ginsberg’s stinging dissent pointed out, companies run by Scientologists could refuse to cover antidepressants, and those run by Jews or Hindus could refuse to cover medications derived from pigs (such as many anesthetics, intravenous fluids, or medications coated in gelatin).” he continued.
And that’s the slippery slope for which this ruling potentially opens the door. Where will the line be drawn where you say to a company, “Sorry, but your religious beliefs aren’t protected?”
What if someone who owns a corporation is anti-vaccine? What if they then say it’s against their religious beliefs for their company to offer health care that covers vaccines? Based upon this Supreme Court ruling, they could theoretically be within their rights to claim that.
But the best point Takei made was in a direct shot at right-wing ignorance. He wrote, “In this case, the owners happen to be deeply Christian; one wonders whether the case would have come out differently if a Muslim-run chain business attempted to impose Sharia law on its employees.”
As we all know, when these conservatives talk about “religious freedoms” they’re really only referring to Christianity.
He also went on to make the point that Hobby Lobby has invested in companies which produce the morning after pill and it gets much of its inventory from China, a country where forced abortions are common.
In other words, they’re blatant hypocrites.
“Hobby Lobby is not a church. It’s a business — and a big one at that,” Takei continued. “Businesses must and should be required to comply with neutrally crafted laws of general applicability. Your boss should not have a say over your healthcare. Once the law starts permitting exceptions based on “sincerely held religious beliefs” there’s no end to the mischief and discrimination that will ensue. Indeed, this is the same logic that certain restaurants and hotels have been trying to deploy to allow proprietors to refuse service to gay couples.”
Once again, he’s absolutely right.
For some reason conservatives seem to think that a lack of options equates to “more” freedom. Before this ruling, women working at Hobby Lobby had the option to have access to these contraceptives. Now they won’t.
If the owners of Hobby Lobby reject specific types of contraceptives, that’s fine. They don’t have to use them. But now their beliefs are being imposed on women who might not share those same beliefs.
Take a good look, because that’s how an employer can determine an employee’s health care coverage. Because a woman working at Hobby Lobby now can’t get health care coverage for certain contraceptives, not because she’s against them, but because her employer is.
How exactly is that respecting her religious freedoms?
Takei also points out religion is a way many conservatives have tried justifying discrimination against homosexuals. These “religious freedom” bills that essentially give businesses the right to deny service to homosexuals based on their religious beliefs.
The bottom line is, religion has no place in government or in business. If someone wants to express their religious views to others, they need to start a church – not a for-profit corporation.
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