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George Takei vs Hobby Lobby
Leviathan.Redherring
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 162
By Leviathan.Redherring 2014-07-14 13:45:21
or just bold them that seems to make them more valid.
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Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-07-14 13:51:32
You can if you push em down the stairs hard enough...
Bahamut.Kara
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2014-07-14 13:52:42
No! You are incorrect, if the medication alters the uterus so that the egg isn't capable of being implanted, they abort the pregnancy.
Every birth control medicine does this....
So does a period.
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Leviathan.Redherring
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 162
By Leviathan.Redherring 2014-07-14 13:54:08
You can if you push em down the stairs hard enough...
good ole coat hanger also
Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-07-14 14:13:13
No! You are incorrect, if the medication alters the uterus so that the egg isn't capable of being implanted, they abort the pregnancy.
Every birth control medicine does this....
So does a period.
You are correct. It does make me wonder what measure Hobby Lobby used to determine coverage to some and not others.
Cerberus.Pleebo
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-07-14 14:16:45
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Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-07-14 14:24:42
Sorry pleebs, just cause you don't agree with them, doesn't mean you can force your beliefs on them instead...
'murica!
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-07-14 14:25:29
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VIP
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-14 14:27:45
Sorry pleebs, just cause you don't agree with them, doesn't mean you can force your beliefs on them instead...
'murica!
How does pointing out the ridiculous nature of someone's belief equate to forcing your beliefs on them? They are superstitious and irrational, and religious freedom includes not allowing them to exact their will on others as well.
And since when is a religious belief of equal weight to a medical fact?
Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-07-14 14:28:42
I thought you were done...
Bahamut.Kara
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2014-07-14 14:29:31
No! You are incorrect, if the medication alters the uterus so that the egg isn't capable of being implanted, they abort the pregnancy.
Every birth control medicine does this....
So does a period.
You are correct. It does make me wonder what measure Hobby Lobby used to determine coverage to some and not others. My guess: Money.
Emergency contraceptives already have an unfounded stigma that they could capitalize on and IUD upfront costs are expensive.
It also gave them the opportunity to argue that they weren't dismissing all of modern medicine and leaving some birth control options.
Second guess: they will change their policy and not support birth control at all.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-07-14 14:34:15
Sorry pleebs, just cause you don't agree with them, doesn't mean you can force your beliefs on them instead...
'murica! Women will still be getting the birth control the law entitles them to. Now it's just people like you and I who may end up subsidizing it \o/
'murica!
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-07-14 14:36:30
I thought you were done...
it's a good thing you don't get paid to think!
now back to work!
/crackswhipmenacingly
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Leviathan.Redherring
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 162
By Leviathan.Redherring 2014-07-14 14:38:25
Sorry pleebs, just cause you don't agree with them, doesn't mean you can force your beliefs on them instead...
'murica!
SCOTUS says you can, check out the hobby lobby case.
edited: joking btw just incase
Bismarck.Ramyrez
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-14 14:44:20
Sorry pleebs, just cause you don't agree with them, doesn't mean you can force your beliefs on them instead...
'murica!
He's not forcing his beliefs on them. He's expressing his opinion that their beliefs are a bunch of unfounded hooey.
Which is inaccurate. Their beliefs are just that; beliefs. Their beliefs are -based- on a bunch of unfounded hooey.
Cerberus.Pleebo
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-07-14 14:48:22
stop forcing facts on me
JESUS TAKE THE WHEEL
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-07-14 14:49:54
stop forcing facts on me
JESUS TAKE THE WHEEL
yo dog, you should pray to all the gods just to cover your bases.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-07-14 15:15:49
My guess: Money.
Emergency contraceptives already have an unfounded stigma that they could capitalize on and IUD upfront costs are expensive.
The part I can't figure out is how they were able to move forward with the lawsuit after the employer mandate was pushed back.
Don't they have to suffer the injury first? It's been almost thirty years since a took a law class but I remember that being important...
You can't sue for something that hasn't happened yet...
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Bahamut.Kara
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2014-07-14 15:27:44
My guess: Money.
Emergency contraceptives already have an unfounded stigma that they could capitalize on and IUD upfront costs are expensive.
The part I can't figure out is how they were able to move forward with the lawsuit after the employer mandate was pushed back.
Don't they have to suffer the injury first? It's been almost thirty years since a took a law class but I remember that being important...
You can't sue for something that hasn't happened yet... Standing and injury.
I'm not sure. Maybe the government didn't ask for charges to be dismissed based on standing or maybe a judge decided that because the law was set to be enacted they had standing and potential injury.
I'd like to know why the belief of when a pregnancy occurs rather than the medical defination of what constitutes a pregnancy was a valid argument for injury. But that was glossed over in the majority opinion with just a footnote stating that pregnancy was defined differently officially.
Which is why I agree with the dissenting opinion that this does open the door for more religious exemptions.
Cerberus.Pleebo
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-07-14 15:33:45
The government never actually presented an argument challenging their beliefs to the court. Maybe they felt they didn't need to or something, but the court can't evaluate an argument they're not given.
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Bahamut.Kara
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2014-07-14 15:39:06
The government never actually presented an argument challenging their beliefs to the court. Maybe they felt they didn't need to or something, but the court can't evaluate an argument they're not given. I thought they didn't present an argument disputing their beliefs but i thought........well, that is true.
They didn't even mention how IUDs opperate the same as the depo shot that Hobby Lobby kept on the approved list. Meh.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-07-14 15:43:15
Yeah, I try not to think about it.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-07-14 15:47:01
No! You are incorrect, if the medication alters the uterus so that the egg isn't capable of being implanted, they abort the pregnancy.
Every birth control medicine does this....
So does a period.
A period is just God's way of punishing women for not strictly adhering to a regimen of compulsory reproduction. And this is why Abortion in all its forms is immoral, it's woman's honorable duty to create life. Throwing that God-Given gift away every month makes you just as evil as Hat McCullough.
Or maybe this dogma was based around an Empire-building mentality that recognized an Empire is only as powerful as how forcefully it can project its might and leverage its natural resources, giving incentive to create as many new human beings within your society as possible in order to conquer and exploit pockets of the world. It's not like this philosophy was used in contemporary times though.
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Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-07-14 15:48:32
just as evil as Hat McCullough.
free hat!
By Jetackuu 2014-07-14 17:29:45
Sorry pleebs, just cause you don't agree with them, doesn't mean you can force your beliefs on them instead...
'murica! you and the other religious loons keep confusing facts with beliefs.
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-07-14 17:37:05
Nixonian healthcare ftw!
The Uterus Czar has spoken!
By Jetackuu 2014-07-14 17:38:28
Nixonian healthcare ftw!
The Uterus Czar has spoken! Yeah, if only we had 1.21 gigawatts, and a flux capacitor...
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-07-16 08:36:28
I'm not sure. Maybe the government didn't ask for charges to be dismissed.
They really gotta quit hiring that guy...
The government never actually presented an argument challenging their beliefs to the court. Maybe they felt they didn't need to or something, but the court can't evaluate an argument they're not given.
quit carrying obama's golf bags around and hire some better lawyers!
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-16 08:39:11
I'm not sure. Maybe the government didn't ask for charges to be dismissed.
They really gotta quit hiring that guy...
The government never actually presented an argument challenging their beliefs to the court. Maybe they felt they didn't need to or something, but the court can't evaluate an argument they're not given.
quit carrying obama's golf bags around and hire some better lawyers!
I'm sorry, I thought you was corn.
Leviathan.Redherring
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 162
By Leviathan.Redherring 2014-07-16 08:45:57
Hat McCullough acted in self defense!
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Wow he isn't giving up!
George Takei: What if Muslims Owned Hobby Lobby and Tried Imposing Sharia Law on Employees?
Quote: I’ve often said that these conservatives wading into the tricky waters of claiming “religious freedom” to justify breaking (or passing) laws should really be careful what they wish for. It’s advice I’d give to all of those conservatives who are celebrating the Supreme Court’s Hobby Lobby ruling.
And based on his brilliant response to that ruling, George Takei seems to be an individual who understands this as well.
Posting his response on the website for his play Allegiance, Takei made several fantastic points concerning not only the hypocrisy of this ruling, but the dangerous precedent it could set going forward.
Takei wrote, “The ruling elevates the rights of a FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION over those of its women employees and opens the door to all manner of claims that a company can refuse services based on its owner’s religion.”
“Think about the ramifications: As Justice Ginsberg’s stinging dissent pointed out, companies run by Scientologists could refuse to cover antidepressants, and those run by Jews or Hindus could refuse to cover medications derived from pigs (such as many anesthetics, intravenous fluids, or medications coated in gelatin).” he continued.
And that’s the slippery slope for which this ruling potentially opens the door. Where will the line be drawn where you say to a company, “Sorry, but your religious beliefs aren’t protected?”
What if someone who owns a corporation is anti-vaccine? What if they then say it’s against their religious beliefs for their company to offer health care that covers vaccines? Based upon this Supreme Court ruling, they could theoretically be within their rights to claim that.
But the best point Takei made was in a direct shot at right-wing ignorance. He wrote, “In this case, the owners happen to be deeply Christian; one wonders whether the case would have come out differently if a Muslim-run chain business attempted to impose Sharia law on its employees.”
As we all know, when these conservatives talk about “religious freedoms” they’re really only referring to Christianity.
He also went on to make the point that Hobby Lobby has invested in companies which produce the morning after pill and it gets much of its inventory from China, a country where forced abortions are common.
In other words, they’re blatant hypocrites.
“Hobby Lobby is not a church. It’s a business — and a big one at that,” Takei continued. “Businesses must and should be required to comply with neutrally crafted laws of general applicability. Your boss should not have a say over your healthcare. Once the law starts permitting exceptions based on “sincerely held religious beliefs” there’s no end to the mischief and discrimination that will ensue. Indeed, this is the same logic that certain restaurants and hotels have been trying to deploy to allow proprietors to refuse service to gay couples.”
Once again, he’s absolutely right.
For some reason conservatives seem to think that a lack of options equates to “more” freedom. Before this ruling, women working at Hobby Lobby had the option to have access to these contraceptives. Now they won’t.
If the owners of Hobby Lobby reject specific types of contraceptives, that’s fine. They don’t have to use them. But now their beliefs are being imposed on women who might not share those same beliefs.
Take a good look, because that’s how an employer can determine an employee’s health care coverage. Because a woman working at Hobby Lobby now can’t get health care coverage for certain contraceptives, not because she’s against them, but because her employer is.
How exactly is that respecting her religious freedoms?
Takei also points out religion is a way many conservatives have tried justifying discrimination against homosexuals. These “religious freedom” bills that essentially give businesses the right to deny service to homosexuals based on their religious beliefs.
The bottom line is, religion has no place in government or in business. If someone wants to express their religious views to others, they need to start a church – not a for-profit corporation.
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