Sigurd's Descendants: The Art Of Dragon Slaying.

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Dragoon » Sigurd's Descendants: The Art of Dragon Slaying.
Sigurd's Descendants: The Art of Dragon Slaying.
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By Highwynd 2014-09-09 17:47:29  
I'll recheck later, not at home now but I did these when Camlann's was first changed and I think I set it to Delve2 stuff.(2.5% defense ignored against a Delve2 megaboss for example should shave off MUCH more defense than the +16attack will add to pDIF. If a Delve II boss has 1200 defense(possibly more?), then Moonshade adds 30att. Accuracy for 1 hits are kinda superfluous as the first hit of any WS has an innate +100 acc bonus I believe, no?
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By Highwynd 2014-09-09 17:58:16  
I can't find the part on the spreadsheet for Camlann's torment that has a function for the ignored defense, am I missing it?
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-09-09 17:59:21  
I'm at work also at the moment when I have availability to get next to a computer I will double check also.

Hopefully another dragoon can answer before I reply so we can make changes if needed!
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By Highwynd 2014-09-09 18:19:29  
Yeah I'm asking Mote. I checked and no matter how much of a TP bonus i give Moonshade, it doesn't increase dmg by even 1 point, against tojil which has like 1800 defense. Weird.
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By Highwynd 2014-09-09 18:25:49  
Also does anyone have a useful DRG GS for Ryunohige? One that has a code for swapping to breath gear after a WS so I benefit from elemental breath potency?
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By Anjou 2014-09-09 19:01:16  
Hey guys. For the new healing breath timers the wyvern's hp wont load right away if we do hb directly (it will if we wait for a bit after equiping the set but its nice to just do it right away for emergencies)so we don't get the benefits. I don't think it's possible to trigger hb with wyvern hp bonus on a spell unless we swap out or hp + gear with the wyvern hp + gear in the precast. Is that how you guys are dealing with it? I don't have windower or windows for that matter lol so I can't use all of that fancy stuff xD
 Valefor.Ophannus
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By Valefor.Ophannus 2014-09-09 19:05:02  
You can swap right as the spell fires, it will use all your gear except the brais since % takes 2-3second for the server to calculate.
 Carbuncle.Legato
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-09-09 19:10:36  
What type of numbers are people seeing their wyvern's do on content where it use to have it's offensive breath resisted?
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By Anjou 2014-09-09 19:31:06  
Valefor.Ophannus said: »
You can swap right as the spell fires, it will use all your gear except the brais since % takes 2-3second for the server to calculate.

Ah kk :o so other wyvern hp + gear will work? Is it not worth it to carry around brais anymore(aside from steady wing set!)
 Carbuncle.Skudo
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By Carbuncle.Skudo 2014-09-09 20:23:23  
What I personally am interested in: Was this too long? Too many details? Anything of high relevance missing? Horribad layout? Awesome layout? Any kind of other feedback with regard to the guide itself?

We pretty much wanted to "go to market" with this right after the September 2014 update, so DRG kinda had to be our first one. Answers to the questions above will help us with improving this guide, as well as creating better possible future guides for jobs that don't have one yet. (Hint! Hint!)
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By lunariancrystal 2014-09-09 20:59:42  
Should also mention the usefulness of the Delphinius polearm for Fly High. Nifty.

(Obviously wouldn't be useful for new stuff as no ilvl stats but still a neat toy for older content)
 Fenrir.Motenten
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By Fenrir.Motenten 2014-09-09 21:08:46  
Camlann's Torment def ignored fixed on the spreadsheet.
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By Gihl 2014-09-09 21:29:39  
omg waited damm long time for this guide :s cool stuff time to drg to be hardcore
 Valefor.Ophannus
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By Valefor.Ophannus 2014-09-09 21:45:54  
Uh steady wing will also take 2-3s of wearing brais, i dont lnow why people keep mentioning that as if steady wing is a 3s cast.


As for setup, maybe make the images prettier(maybe crop out the HUD/Log/Party Menu in the screenshots). Its just nitpicky but i dont think you need more than 1-2 pictures as it makes the oage load slower and it cramps the text weirdly. I think the BLU and DNC guide are the most efficient in terms of space/formatting and visual clarity. This is constructove criticism by the way. The content is great, and it seem like you had a lot of help, these suggestions are just fine tuning. The only part of the guide that maybe was a bit awkward was describing the JAs with the screenshots for each one, i get what you were going for but sometimes simple is better.
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By Valefor.Ophannus 2014-09-09 21:54:41  
To elaborate more specifically, the art at the top is great and cool, the images of armor is kinda of unnecessary(but definitely keep the images of the polearms), i dont think you need to show an image for all the AF/AF2 because they can roll over the equip slot amd see the stats there(maybe move the jump itemsets there instead or right below the description of jumps). The screenshots for the weapon skills are cool. Definitely keep the art at the top and between major sections but i'd vote to take out the the images of the af/af2 pieces because theres a lot of wasted white space. and to move the item sets to where the relevant JA descriptions are similar to other guides rather than have the itemsets in a separate section than the JAs they're used for.
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By FaeQueenCory 2014-09-09 22:04:51  
Ok... I'm not a DRG so my point may be moot...
Buuut...
I don't see how Hasso+Lv5Wyvern=11% haste.
GearHaste caps at 25%.
MagicHaste caps at "45"%.
DW is "unlimited".
And JobHaste caps at 25%...
With whole delay reduction at 80%...
But... If JobHaste is 25%... Hasso is 10%... And Wyvern Lv5 is 10%... That should be 20% JobHaste.
Right?

(Also your guide mentions Last Resort's JobHaste buff... But that is only from merits and thusly the haste is DRK-only.)
Totes forgot that it's a JT too...
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-09-09 22:12:24  
Valefor.Ophannus said: »
Uh steady wing will also take 2-3s of wearing brais, i dont lnow why people keep mentioning that as if steady wing is a 3s cast.


As for setup, maybe make the images prettier(maybe crop out the HUD/Log/Party Menu in the screenshots). Its just nitpicky but i dont think you need more than 1-2 pictures as it makes the oage load slower and it cramps the text weirdly. I think the BLU and DNC guide are the most efficient in terms of space/formatting and visual clarity. This is constructove criticism by the way. The content is great, and it seem like you had a lot of help, these suggestions are just fine tuning. The only part of the guide that maybe was a bit awkward was describing the JAs with the screenshots for each one, i get what you were going for but sometimes simple is better.


Totally understand and thank you for the criticism.

This was both of our first time taking on a endeavor like this.
In regards to the pictures, we really liked the way the GEO & WAR guide was formatted and the wealth of information on the BLU guide we read all the guides and tried to take bits and pieces from all of them to compile into here.

The JA pictures, we got that idea from the RNG guide and thought it was neat.
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-09-09 22:18:08  
FaeQueenCory said: »
Ok... I'm not a DRG so my point may be moot...
Buuut...
I don't see how Hasso+Lv5Wyvern=11% haste.
GearHaste caps at 25%.
DW and MagicHaste are "unlimited".
And JobHaste caps at 25%...
With whole delay reduction at 80%...
But... If JobHaste is 25%... Hasso is 10%... And Wyvern Lv5 is 10%... That should be 20% JobHaste.
Right?

(Also your guide mentions Last Resort's JobHaste buff... But that is only from merits and thusly the haste is DRK-only.)

So we were speaking in fully buffed situations.

The breakdown would be like so:

99 DRG/SAM
Gear haste 25%
Magic haste caps @ 44%
Job ability haste caps @ 25%

So 25 + 44 = 69
+ the 10% LVL 5 Wyvern JA haste
= 79%

That's where we got our 1% additional add effect from hasso.

DRK Last resort desperate blows was added as a job trait effect
By the developers in early 2014 making it possible for 2 handers who sub DRK to receive JA haste.

The general consensus is that the sub haste is 15%
While a LVL 99 DRK with merits will receive 25% JA haste while his/her last resort effect is up.
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By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2014-09-09 23:40:08  
is the new Wyvern haste definitely counted as JA haste?
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By Anjou 2014-09-09 23:46:05  
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »
is the new Wyvern haste definitely counted as JA haste?
yup! devs stated it was ;o
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By Highwynd 2014-09-10 00:14:27  
New breath speed is annoying sometimes because servers aren't detecting my wyvern's HP fast enough even with gearswap. Getting like 1100 breaths instead of 1600. That 500 makes a big diff. Only recourse is to 'simulate' the old delay by artifically making a 2-3 seconds precast delay which is annoying because it's counter productive.
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By Odin.Shaggnix 2014-09-10 06:44:40  
If you're not getting capped magic haste, and hasso would grant the full 10%, is /sam still better? Or is the jury still out on this?
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By Shiva.Shruiken 2014-09-10 07:13:17  
Great to finally see a guide! Thank you for taking your time.

Small changes I'd make:

Legato said:
In situations where keeping your Wyvern alive throughout the battle is feasible, Hasso will only add 1% to your delay reduction

Change the language to reflect that this is only in high-buffed situations (Haste+Marches).

Legato said:
Stone is the best spell to activate Healing Breath, because casting it is very fast (even faster than casting Dia) and you only spend 7 MP for it.

Even better, stone is 4 MP. Dia is 7.

Legato said:
The main reason for a White Mage sub job is Reraise. For anything else that this sub job could do, Red Mage is better.

Erase, -na and -ra spells, teleports.

Small and nitpicking, I know. But besides that, I'd like to see more gear sets. You list the best and the worst, but nothing in between. For reference, I particularly like how THF's guide made sets for 0Q, NQ, HQ, QQ, QQ+Buffs and QQ+Acc.

Thanks again and keep up the great work.

Shaggnix said:
If you're not getting capped magic haste, and hasso would grant the full 10%, is /sam still better?

Yes.
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By FaeQueenCory 2014-09-10 07:26:19  
Carbuncle.Legato said: »
FaeQueenCory said: »
Ok... I'm not a DRG so my point may be moot...
Buuut...
I don't see how Hasso+Lv5Wyvern=11% haste.
GearHaste caps at 25%.
DW and MagicHaste are "unlimited".
And JobHaste caps at 25%...
With whole delay reduction at 80%...
But... If JobHaste is 25%... Hasso is 10%... And Wyvern Lv5 is 10%... That should be 20% JobHaste.
Right?

(Also your guide mentions Last Resort's JobHaste buff... But that is only from merits and thusly the haste is DRK-only.)

So we were speaking in fully buffed situations.

The breakdown would be like so:

99 DRG/SAM
Gear haste 25%
Magic haste caps @ 44%
Job ability haste caps @ 25%

So 25 + 44 = 69
+ the 10% LVL 5 Wyvern JA haste
= 79%

That's where we got our 1% additional add effect from hasso.

DRK Last resort desperate blows was added as a job trait effect
By the developers in early 2014 making it possible for 2 handers who sub DRK to receive JA haste.

The general consensus is that the sub haste is 15%
While a LVL 99 DRK with merits will receive 25% JA haste while his/her last resort effect is up.
Yes, I had forgotten the adjustment to desperate blows. (See my edit before/as you responded L0L)

But you really should make note of that.... Especially for noobs who will take guides as Word of God...
/SAM, in terms of haste, would be better in solo or low-buffed situations. (Ala SKCNMs where all you need is a PLD and a WHM.)
Don't just say "it's 1%" without any context to your statement because it's always 10%.
(Which is especially weird when you praise /DRK for its +15% when that too will just be "1%".)
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By Odin.Shaggnix 2014-09-10 07:51:19  
It would probably be best then to clarify this in the subjob section that /sam is best when you're not getting capped magic haste, and /war is best when you're getting capped magic haste.

EDIT

also, Gungnir occasionaly does 2.5x dmg, not 2x

Windbuffet +1
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-09-10 17:00:28  
Odin.Shaggnix said: »
also, Gungnir occasionaly does 2.5x dmg, not 2x

Initially when we were creating this and searching for information we utilized the spreadsheet and I saw that

Amano & Ragnarok the lower delay 2handers had 2.5x dmg
While
Bravura, Gungnir and Apocalypse had 2.0x dmg

I'll double check again and thank you for pointing that out.
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By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2014-09-10 17:22:31  
Great guide!! The news with Spirit Link makes me want to come back to the game now because best job might not get me laughed at
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By Creaucent Alazrin 2014-09-10 18:24:18  
Checked the high acc TP set for 492-528 delay and it has 24% haste and Gungnir has x2.5 damage hidden effect.
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By Carbuncle.Skudo 2014-09-10 18:47:02  
Shiva.Shruiken said: »
Change the language to reflect that this is only in high-buffed situations (Haste+Marches).

Changed part of the /SAM text to:

Quote:
As of the September 2014 update, the introduction of the Wyvern-master partnership may have changed Samurai's role as the optimal sub job. If you are capping magic Haste with e. g. double March + Haste and keeping your Wyvern alive throughout the battle is feasible, Hasso will only add 1% to your delay reduction, so the main advantage of having subbed Samurai - getting significantly closer to the delay reduction cap - may not outweigh the advantage of other sub jobs, namely Warrior, anymore. Otherwise, Samurai still is the top contender for your sub job.

Shiva.Shruiken said: »
Even better, stone is 4 MP. Dia is 7.

I suck at proofreading. Fixed.

Shiva.Shruiken said: »
Erase, -na and -ra spells, teleports.

Changed the /WHM text to:

Quote:
The main reason for a White Mage sub job is Reraise, teleporting, and status removal spells. The latter can be useful every now and then, especially if it is for things you cannot remove with Remedy.

If you want to use this sub job, the best spell to activate Healing Breath is Dia. It is slightly more expensive than Stone though: 7 MP.

As for layout "issues", thanks for your extensive feedback, Ophannus. I'll try to put that to work in a future release of this guide.
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-09-11 17:06:50  
Some corrections, opinions and suggestions.

EDIT: I originally had this spoilered due to length, but after I posted clicking on the spoiler link wouldn't open it... what gives?

Spirit surge
Quote:
The duration of Spirit Surge can be extended to 80 seconds by using Spirit Surge while having either of these items equipped:

It then list 3 items. Either is for two options. Should use "any" instead.

Fly High
It's a good SP, But getting the most out of its, far too short, duration can be difficult. It requires good timing, and no interruptions(GD stun melee mobs..) It is a really, really good way to get AM3 back up though. XD

Jump
Quote:
Level 10, 1:00 recast (can be reduced to 0:50)
Perhaps add "via merits" in the ()? Sure, it gets covered in the merit section, but that comes substantially later in the guide. Depending on what order of newb might be reading this, they may not know how the recast is reduced.

High jump

This has been mentioned by others, but Wyrm brais(+1/+2/ptero) high jump enhancement is not mentioned at all. While enmity control is rarely a major factor in the game for melee atm, anyone new should be made aware the the enhancement exists. I don't think there's a need to categorically list every form of the legs/put pics of them, but it should at least get a little note.

Spirit/Soul jump

You may want to find a more up to date image for lancer's Cuissots. Up to date lancer legs have text for both the spirit and soul jump enhancements.

Ryunohige

You might note that Mythic AM3 procs on WS. Most OAX effects don't, so that's notable. And while this may obvious to most of us, guides are often for newbs.

Con. AM3 Management is a pain in the arse. Yes, jumps help a lot. Meditate helps too(but considering the potenct of /WAR now, may not have meditate anymore.)

But bad timing can just screw you. Lack of mobs when you need to rebuild. A fight starting with 30 seconds left on duration and you already at 3k TP.. you get to sit there and melee till AM3 wears, cause it doesn't freaking overwrite.. Anyway. That's the con. /rant off.

Is it still worth it? Hell yes.

Rhongomiant/Gungnir

Quote:
The Wyvern does not get any benefits, at all.

I'm not really sure you can call that a con. Sure, AM3 wyvern is a benefit for Ryunohige. If a small one(perhaps better post update?) But it's not much of a loss for Rhongo/Gungnir. And it's not like any weapon but Ryu has notable wyvern benefits.

Olyndicus

Quote:
Not necessarily easy to obtain, because the Mistmaw Xelhua can drop a Sharur instead of an Olyndicus.

While we don't really need to know what the other drop is as it's not DRG related... The name of the alluvion skirmish club "Sharur" has been changed to "Nehushtan."

You might mention the ease of 5-hitting as a pro, although, since I haven't personally checked builds for it, I'm uncertain how significant a benefit it would be.

Job points
To rant, or not to rant? Hmmm, rant.

I was pretty disappointed by the majority of DRG job points.

The spirit surge JP is good. But it's linked to the same issues as spirit surge itself. -.-;

1: Your jumps suck without a wyvern. So during spirit surge, you may get your recasts back, but you get to use crappy jumps. At least with Ryu tier 1 jumps still auto-crit, but you still lose out on the x2/x3 TP gain. Which is the important part. -.-

2: It kills your wyvern. And while you may have the call wyvern recast ready, you just knocked off your back up wyvern. The wyvern is vastly more important than before. If he(or you) goes down after this, then you're out +20% atk, 10% haste, and jump enhancements for ~20 mins.

If you're gonna use spirit surge, I hope you're in a situation where you and your wyvern can survive till that recast is back up.

Fly high JP

/sigh. Are you serious SE? DRG is, generally, atk starved. Or was before the last update. But even before that, the one place we didn't need atk.. was jumps. Spirit/Soul jump already have +25%/+50% atk bonuses. +the unknown values on lancer cuissots.

Post Wyvern exp ATK bonus AND getting berserk due to the second coming of /war... Jumps are probably going to be capping atk a lot.

And even when you aren't capping, +50 jump atk on fly high is peanuts. The majority of Fly high's DMG isn't coming from direct jump dmg, it's from the additional WS you get due to jump TP. And even the impact of +50 atk on jump DMG is piddly.

Jump JP, same deal. I did a little spreadsheet check when The jump JP first came out. Just how much do you get outta grinding it to 10/10?

0.182 DPS... Consider that I had DRG at about 1500 total DPS in the sheet at the time. 0.182 is not even a drop in the bucket. Maybe a vapor molecule?

If you're getting a lot of JP anyway, as a side effect of other activities, sure. Upgrade some JP. But I wouldn't intentionally invest any time in it.

Personally, I'm sitting on like 40~ JP I incidentally acquired in hopes that they'll add a JP that isn't worthless in the future. <,<

/rant off.

Some suggested additions.

Wyvern exp bonus section.

While the new atk/haste bonus is mentioned, mostly in reference to spirit link and empathy, it never actually specifies the source of said buff. The wyvern EXP mechanic. This could use some explanation. General mechanics. Things like the fact that it wears on zoning, and on gain/loss of some types of confrontation status(voidwatch, for example.)

Specific mention of wyvern types/behaviors. There are only minor references to wyvern behavior. This should be expanded and explained.

Healing breath mechanics. Triggers, magic/ja, etc. There's a gear set for restoring breath, and references to triggering healing breath with spells. But nothing on the requirements to trigger HB. Any newbs coming in here could be quite confused.

Solo. Perhaps something on solo. Subs, tactics, equipment(ethereal earring!)etc. For example, the practice of swapping in HP+ gear before casting a spell to trigger Healing breath, thus raising the HP value at which HB can be triggered.

BLU Sub. Legato, you never asked me anything about solo, iirc. So /BLU never came up. lol. It def needs to be listed.

DNC sub(really just for dynamis, but still.)

I haven't gone over gear sets. I'm waiting till the new atk+/haste gets added to the spreadsheet before I do any detailed comparisons. So I haven't looked at any of the new gear in-depth either.

That's all for now.
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