Obamas War Without Congress Approval

Eorzea Time
 
 
 
言語: JP EN FR DE
日本語版のFFXIVPRO利用したい場合は、上記の"JP"を設定して、又はjp.ffxivpro.comを直接に利用してもいいです
users online
フォーラム » Everything Else » Politics and Religion » Obamas war without congress approval
Obamas war without congress approval
First Page 2 ... 17 18 19
 Odin.Godofgods
Offline
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4013
By Odin.Godofgods 2014-09-12 21:53:45  
Quote:
Can Obama wage war without consent of Congress?

WASHINGTON (AP) — On the cusp of intensified airstrikes in Iraq and Syria, President Barack Obama is using the legal grounding of the congressional authorizations President George W. Bush relied on more than a decade ago to go to war. But Obama has made no effort to ask Congress to explicitly authorize his own conflict.

The White House said again Friday that Bush-era congressional authorizations for the war on al-Qaida and the Iraq invasion give Obama authority to act without new approval by Congress under the 1973 War Powers Act. That law, passed during the Vietnam War, serves as a constitutional check on presidential power to declare war without congressional consent. It requires presidents to notify Congress within 48 hours of military action and limits the use of military forces to no more than 60 days unless Congress authorizes force or declares war.

"It is the view of this administration and the president's national security team specifically that additional authorization from Congress is not required, that he has the authority that he needs to order the military actions," White House spokesman Josh Earnest said. He said there were no plans to seek consent from Congress. "At this point we have not, and I don't know of any plan to do so at this point," he said.

The administration's tightly crafted legal strategy has short-circuited the congressional oversight that Obama once championed. The White House's use of post-9/11 congressional force authorizations for the broadening air war has generated a chorus of criticism that the justifications are, at best, a legal stretch.

"Committing American lives to war is such a serious question, it should not be left to one person to decide, even if it's the president," said former Illinois Rep. Paul Findley, 92, who helped write the War Powers Act.

As a U.S. senator from Illinois running for president in 2007, Obama tried to prevent Bush's administration from taking any military action against Iran unless it was explicitly authorized by Congress. A Senate resolution Obama sponsored died in committee.

Nearly seven years later, U.S. fighter jets and unmanned drones armed with missiles have flown 150 airstrikes against the Islamic State group over the past five weeks in Iraq under Obama's orders — even though he has yet to formally ask Congress to authorize the expanding war. Obama told the nation Wednesday he would unleash U.S. strikes inside Syria for the first time, along with intensified bombing in Iraq, as part of "a steady, relentless effort" to root out Islamic State extremists. Obama has not said how long the air campaign will last.

The White House has cited the 2001 military authorization Congress gave Bush to attack any countries, groups or people who planned, authorized, committed or aided the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Earnest on Thursday described the 2001 Authorization for Use of Military Force, generally known as the AUMF, as one that Obama "believes continues to apply to this terrorist organization that is operating in Iraq and Syria."

The Islamic State group, which was founded in 2004, has not been linked to the 9/11 attacks, although its founders later pledged allegiance to Osama bin Laden. In February, al-Qaida declared that the Islamic State group was no longer formally part of the terror organization. And in recent weeks, senior U.S. officials, including Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson and Matthew Olsen, head of the National Counterterrorism Center, have drawn significant distinctions between al-Qaida and the Islamic State group.

Earnest said Thursday that Obama welcomes support from Congress but that it isn't necessary. "The president has the authority, the statutory authority that he needs," Earnest said.

Others disagreed.

"I actually think the 2001 AUMF argument is pretty tortured," said Rep. Jim Himes, D-Conn., who serves on the House Intelligence Committee. "They are essentially saying that ISIL is associated with al-Qaida, and that's not obvious," Himes said, using an alternate acronym for the Islamic State group. "Stretching it like this has dangerous implications."

Himes supports a new congressional vote for a specific IS group authorization, as does another Democrat on the Intelligence Committee, Rep. Adam Schiff of California.

There is wariness even from some former Bush administration officials. Jack Goldsmith, head of the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel under Bush, said in the Lawfare blog that "it seems a stretch" to connect the Islamic State group to al-Qaida, considering recent rivalry between the two groups.

The White House also finds authorization under the 2002 resolution that approved the invasion of Iraq to identify and destroy weapons of mass destruction. That resolution also cited the threat from al-Qaida, which Congress said then was operating inside Iraq. But the U.S. later concluded there were no ties between al-Qaida and Iraqi President Saddam Hussein or his government, and the group formally known as al-Qaida in Iraq — which later evolved into the Islamic State group — didn't form until 2004, after the U.S.-led invasion.

Obama is using both authorizations as authority to act even though he publicly sought their repeal last year. In a key national security address at the National Defense University in May 2013, Obama said he wanted to scrap the 2001 order because "we may be drawn into more wars we don't need to fight." Two months later, Obama's national security adviser, Susan Rice, asked House Speaker John Boehner to consider repealing the 2002 Iraq resolution, calling the document "outdated."

Obama has asked only for congressional backing to pay for the buildup of American advisers and equipment to aid Syrian opposition forces. House Republicans spurned a vote on that separate request earlier this week, but Boehner is now siding with the administration. The White House acknowledged it could not overtly train Syrian rebels without Congress approving the cost of about $500 million.

Since U.S. military advisers went into Iraq in June, the administration has maneuvered repeatedly to avoid coming into conflict with the War Powers provision that imposes a 60-day time limit on unapproved military action. Seven times, before each 60-day limit has expired, Obama has sent new notification letters to Congress restarting the clock and providing new extensions without invoking congressional approval. The most recent four notifications have covered the airstrikes against the Islamic State group that began Aug. 8.

An international law expert at Temple University's Beasley School of Law, Peter J. Spiro, described the letters as workarounds that amount to "killing the War Powers Act with 1,000 tiny cuts."

Former Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Ind., who now heads the Lugar Center for foreign affairs in Washington, said Obama could ask for congressional approval in a way that would be less formal than a specific war resolution — perhaps either as an appropriations request or a simple resolution.

"It may not be the most satisfactory way to declare war," Lugar said. "But it may be a pragmatic compromise for the moment."

Source
 Bismarck.Ihina
Offline
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Ihina
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-09-12 22:18:35  
Good old Obama doing Obama things again.

He could easily get congressional approve because there are few things republicans love more than going to war.

Now, if things go poorly and/or the war becomes unpopular, they can turn around and attack him by saying Obama went to 'war' without congressional approval.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Nausi
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-09-12 22:42:29  
We're at war because Obama's poll numbers are in the crapper.
 Phoenix.Michiiru
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Michiiru
Posts: 271
By Phoenix.Michiiru 2014-09-12 22:45:50  
Obama just sucks, he's a horrible leader for the US and whoever defends him by saying Bush was worse, I shall say this:

Both sucked. (Ok now let's see how many people think that is bait. Cya in the morning.)
[+]
Offline
Posts: 35422
By fonewear 2014-09-12 22:46:54  
Oh yea what about Millard Fillmore !
[+]
 Shiva.Viciousss
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Viciouss
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-09-12 22:51:29  
Its ironic because he has asked Boehner to repeal the Bush era laws that authorize him to wage war in Iraq, and Boehner declined, criticizing the President for his request. Therefore, the laws are still on the books and Obama doesn't need Congress at all. He has the full authority to do whatever he wants in Iraq, courtesy of Congress.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 35422
By fonewear 2014-09-12 22:52:51  
I'm waiting for Obama to have a Mission Accomplished banner. Then I'll be happy.


[+]
 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-12 22:57:12  
After all these years of talk of "Bush's illegal war" I guess it finally comes full circle. Let's see what else Obama can do to copy our ever-so-popular former president.
[+]
 Bahamut.Milamber
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: milamber
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-09-12 22:58:06  
Quote:
The White House acknowledged it could not overtly train Syrian rebels without Congress approving the cost of about $500 million.

Seriously people? This should be sending red flags off everywhere. This crap needs to stop.

Also, if an issue is important enough to need to go to war, then it needs congressional approval.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Nausi
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-09-12 22:58:33  
Yeah, seriously. The left wingers on this site must be so proud.
Offline
Posts: 35422
By fonewear 2014-09-12 22:59:27  
Change the word war to freedom fighters sounds a lot better !
 Cerberus.Pleebo
Offline
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Pleebo
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-09-12 23:24:54  
It's funny how two days ago, the talking point was that he was being too passive on the issue. I guess sometime after that the coin was re-flipped and now he's back to being a maniacal dictator again.

I'd agree that Congress should approve since it's likely to require it eventually but no one wants to vote for another war this close to an election. I imagine they're more than willing to watch from the sidelines in passive agreement while taking the occasional potshot to maintain the appearance of dissent.
[+]
 Ragnarok.Nausi
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Nausi
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-09-13 00:11:23  
Right because when the talking point was "do something" clearly everyone meant without the approval of congress.
Offline
Posts: 4394
By Altimaomega 2014-09-13 00:24:51  




Tragically if it was possible for him to run another term, he would probably get the votes. Go America! Thanks to people like Pleebo.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
Offline
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Pleebo
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-09-13 00:32:07  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Right because when the talking point was "do something" clearly everyone meant without the approval of congress.
Congress doesn't want to be on record for anything like this. They're more than happy to let the President have at it despite their little protests.

Altimaomega said: »
I bet you're that guy on facebook that relatives block so they don't have to put up with inane political memes and bumper sticker logic. We all know the type.
[+]
 Shiva.Viciousss
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Viciouss
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-09-13 00:39:23  
Congress had its chance, it declined to act, as usual.
[+]
 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-13 02:04:05  
What did I just read?
[+]
 Bahamut.Milamber
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: milamber
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-09-13 02:10:53  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
What did I just read?
Something from someone who has the same ability to vote as you do.

Enjoy your nightmares.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 969
By Voren 2014-09-13 02:20:43  
Bahamut.Refreshtwo said: »
a bunch of rambling nonsensical crap.

Islam isn't the problem, it's the morons that take the word as literal truth and then have their little minds twisted by people who are charismatic that are the problem. Also, it's not even the sheeple, it's the charismatic psychopaths that want power that are the problem.

Germany wasn't evil, Germans weren't evil, but a majority allowed a power hungry, egotistical, charismatic madman to rule them. Germany wasn't destroyed, it was over thrown.
[+]
 Siren.Sieha
Offline
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
user: Sieha1
Posts: 503
By Siren.Sieha 2014-09-13 03:27:17  
Phoenix.Michiiru said: »
Obama just sucks, he's a horrible leader for the US and whoever defends him by saying Bush was worse, I shall say this:

Both sucked. (Ok now let's see how many people think that is bait. Cya in the morning.)

I would have to agree, we havent had a decent president since Reagan. Some how I feel Obama is trying to get us into trouble.
[+]
 Bismarck.Ihina
Offline
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Ihina
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-09-13 04:06:59  
If Reagan was president now, ISIS wouldn't have beheaded those journalist.

He would have just given those terrorist more weapons. Obama is a fool for refusing to negotiate with them.
[+]
 Bismarck.Snprphnx
Offline
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Snprphnx
Posts: 2707
By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2014-09-13 04:26:40  
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
If Reagan was president now, ISIS wouldn't have beheaded those journalist.

He would have just given those terrorist more weapons. Obama is a fool for refusing to negotiate with them.

As a nation, we have a long standing policy not to negotiate with terrorist. Whether it's a single person, a small group, or one as large as ISIS. We will only negotiate with other sovereign nations. I'm not saying this is a 100% good policy, I'm just saying that is our policy.

We will, however, support and arm "freedom fighters" in areas that we want to indirectly oppose the existing government for our own gain. This has come back to haunt us, and really isn't a successful tactic either.
Offline
Posts: 969
By Voren 2014-09-13 04:29:02  
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
If Reagan was president now, ISIS wouldn't have beheaded those journalist.

He would have just given those terrorist more weapons. Obama is a fool for refusing to negotiate with them.

As a nation, we have a long standing policy not to negotiate with terrorist. Whether it's a single person, a small group, or one as large as ISIS. We will only negotiate with other sovereign nations. I'm not saying this is a 100% good policy, I'm just saying that is our policy.

We will, however, support and arm "freedom fighters" in areas that we want to indirectly oppose the existing government for our own gain. This has come back to haunt us, and really isn't a successful tactic either.

You do remember that Obama negotiated with terrorists not too long ago right? It's not a law to not negotiate, it's a policy, which means it's like underwear: changes every so often and usually catches a bunch of ***.
[+]
 Bismarck.Ihina
Offline
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Ihina
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-09-13 04:41:02  
It's not even a policy. It's just something we say in order to sound tough.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 42698
By Jetackuu 2014-09-13 07:28:21  
2 major things: one; this isn't waging war, nor does the Presidrnt need congressional approval to deploy aid or troops, especially in a national threat response when this could be easily argued as.


two:

Altimaomega said: »
The last line of this photo is inaccurate, but you know since facts don't matter. (the first half is though, Obama's as much of a fascist *** as Bush, go figure.).
[+]
 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-13 07:28:39  
Bahamut.Refreshtwo said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
What did I just read?

we killing muslims with drones. muslims get upset makes more terror groups we kill with drones. that makes more terror groups.

to put it into video game terms we just killing "sin" armor by killing the people we never go after islam the core aka "yu yevon" and we cant say any thing about it we just go "yay we beat sin" there peace, but it keeps coming back.


Yes im a liberal but the world needs to come out and say it we need to deal with islamm by deconverting proplr it may take 100-300 years but there one day will be peace in the middle east one day.

You think it's possible to "deconvert" over 1.6 billion people (and counting) in the space of 100-300 years, peacefully no less? I can't even begin to fathom how you think that could ever happen. I'm sorry, but that takes "idealistic liberal" to a whole new level.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 969
By Voren 2014-09-13 07:32:37  
Bahamut.Refreshtwo said: »
more nonsensical *** and mutterings from the asylum.

You're lumping all Islamic people together into one ball when that's not the case, but apparently my comparison I wrote earlier fell upon deaf ears.

To do what you're wanting done would mean the systematic and complete destruction of a religion, culture, and political ideology that would go far beyond the Middle East. You might as well go ahead and suggest concentration camps, tattooing serial numbers on people, and then subjecting them to gruesome torture.
[+]
 Bismarck.Dracondria
Offline
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 33979
By Bismarck.Dracondria 2014-09-13 07:36:02  
Ship all the believers off to Mars > wait for them to die > no more believers on Earth. Peaceful. Oh and of course burn all books. Eventually it'll be forgotten
[+]
First Page 2 ... 17 18 19