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Does islam require forced conversions?
Caitsith.Zahrah
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-09-23 20:03:53
Jazz hands thread!
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Ragnarok.Zeig
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1616
By Ragnarok.Zeig 2014-09-23 20:06:51
Read the OP, then jumped to the final page...
What the heck is going on
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サーバ: Bismarck
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Posts: 33979
By Bismarck.Dracondria 2014-09-23 20:06:58
Quote: Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution.
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Caitsith.Zahrah
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-09-23 20:08:17
Asura.Refreshazure said: »No no no you misunderstand what you find fun is based on the environment around you as you grow up I will provided grants tools in graphic design and advanced instruments it would be near impossible for them to become interested in cars if they had advanced and more entertaining tools.
LOL. Please refer me to your advanced degree in child development. I'll be waiting.
Here's a nifty tip from a buddy who actually has a PHD in Early Childhood Education (don't ask, her husband still /facepalms): To increase your child's dexterity, break crayons in half so they have to adapt to holding them like a pencil.
/dusts off hands
There. Something constructive.
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Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-23 20:09:53
Asura.Refreshazure said: »A religious person chooses all the time and makes the child be Christian the child doesn't choose the child is made into a Christian.
So you're not going to force your child to be a liberal and an atheist?
サーバ: Cerberus
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2014-09-23 20:12:57
Asura.Refreshazure said: »Quote: Think of it that way, you can never shape kids to be what you want them to be, you can only show them the possibilities and help them reach what they want to be. It's a beautiful thing in my opinion, I would feel really bad if I forced my kids to be something they aren't.
A religious person chooses all the time and makes the child be Christian the child doesn't choose the child is made into a Christian.
My child won't much as a rebel is an average child due to the environment where I will raise them.
I understand that there will be a rebel stage but if everything goes well genetically there going to be already be starting college Once again, you're not taking personalities into account.
Also, there may be an outside factor that may influence the child to stray. The part of unknown factors is much greater than the known one, which is why this kind of plan has to leave a lot of freedom to the child to avoid awaking those personality traits, first, and then allow yourself to somewhat control the unknown that may happen, without the child noticing. He'll think you're open minded and let him do what he wants when you actually very well know what he's doing.
But, ya, you have no way of preventing your child from receiving an influence from an outside source, the probabilities aren't in your favor at all.
But even before taking this into consideration, the personality of your child cannot be suppressed and is a very early factor to take into consideration.
So, unless you feed your child with medicine to control him, you're already walking toward the unknown.
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
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Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-23 20:14:32
Asura.Refreshazure said: »as I stated before imagination will be fulfilled by graphic design and musical instruments both will channel imagination.
I met a kid whose parents were music teachers. He was surrounded by music but had no interest in it. What then?
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
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Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-23 20:17:47
I see you're a hypocrite too. Well that about rounds it out then. It's only evil if people you don't like raise their kids around ideals you don't like. If you do it, it's just nature.
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サーバ: Bismarck
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2014-09-23 20:18:41
Well you're *** then buddy, school in Denmark is compulsory so he'll be surrounded by kids who will be playing outside, bringing handheld video games to school or other toys and will develop an interest in them
サーバ: Bismarck
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2014-09-23 20:19:47
Asura.Refreshazure said: »Asura.Refreshazure said: »A religious person chooses all the time and makes the child be Christian the child doesn't choose the child is made into a Christian.
So you're not going to force your child to be a liberal and an atheist?
if all goes well they will not be raised in the United States they will be raised in a more secular place like Denmark where undesirable things like Republicans and conservative values
are in the super minority.
once again environmental factors I won't be forcing them to be liberal and atheist the environment around them will be liberal and atheist.
just as a Christian child who never leaves his redneck town will will end up as a Christian adult.
there is no forcing them nature will just proceed naturally.
Asura.Refreshazure said: »as I stated before imagination will be fulfilled by graphic design and musical instruments both will channel imagination.
I met a kid whose parents were music teachers. He was surrounded by music but had no interest in it. What then?
Advanced graphic design with with a huge graphic tablet that I will leave in their room to mess with so they will become interested in and mess around with it until they begin practicing on their own then when they ask for more advanced things I will give it to them.
Do you even know how expensive those programs are?
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-23 20:22:14
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »Do you even know how expensive those programs are?
And I'm sure a child with no advanced training will just tinker his way into artistic genius and a lifelong career in the thing his parent wants him to do. That's never backfired, nope.
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-23 20:23:36
Asura.Refreshazure said: »indoctrinating your child without fear of never-ending hell and torment and saying those damn Muslims are out to get him.
Um, neither of those things are things I believe. Calling me ignorant then stereotyping me is a good way of showing ignorance, though.
Asura.Ccl
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1997
By Asura.Ccl 2014-09-23 20:25:01
Asura.Refreshazure said: »
IQ 140 remember I've advanced habits already
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I wish we could be buddy and go out for a drink, the fun never end with you
edit had to cause you're posting too much awesomeness too fast for me to handle
Asura.Refreshazure said: »
and I'm planning to marry an intelligent wife will also have a successful job.
Clearly cause everyone with high IQ has a succesfull job/life ?
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Lakshmi.Zerowone
サーバ: Lakshmi
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Posts: 6949
By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-09-23 20:25:19
Was this result from a certified test that you take from a mental health institute or was this the result from an IQ test taken randomly on the internet?
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サーバ: Cerberus
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2014-09-23 20:26:30
You better land a 5 digits monthly salary if you want such a wife. Smart women are very hard to impress, so unless you have an amazing personality, you'll need 5 or 6 digits to be relevant.
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サーバ: Bismarck
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2014-09-23 20:26:53
Asura.Refreshazure said: » yes I'm very familiar with Adobe Illustrator and Adobe Photoshop.
Because those are super advanced
There are programs much better and veeeeeeeeeery expensive, especially all those 3D programs
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Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-23 20:27:14
Was this result from a certified test that you take from a mental health institute or was this the result from an IQ test taken randomly on the internet? Shut up, those things are legit! Here, let me print out my certificate of 220 IQ from freeiqtest.com for you.
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Lakshmi.Zerowone
サーバ: Lakshmi
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Posts: 6949
By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-09-23 20:27:43
Or close to a meaty 2 digits, you know where...
サーバ: Bismarck
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2014-09-23 20:31:14
The last 2 look like something made in kindergarten
サーバ: Cerberus
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2014-09-23 20:31:36
Or close to a meaty 2 digits, you know where... From what I've been reading, women do not like two digits there. Even less if it's the meaty part, you'll kill her.
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サーバ: Bismarck
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2014-09-23 20:31:58
First one looks like a flower with a filter
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-23 20:32:21
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »You better land a 5 digits monthly salary if you want such a wife. Smart women are very hard to impress, so unless you have an amazing personality, you'll need 5 or 6 digits to be relevant.
Actually, yeah. Forget about the kids for a moment. If he can even land a woman that even fits his criteria within the next couple decades, I might begin to take the rest seriously.
Lakshmi.Zerowone
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6949
By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-09-23 20:32:38
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »Or close to a meaty 2 digits, you know where... From what I've been reading, women do not like two digits there. Even less if it's the meaty part, you'll kill her.
There is no question that many people have been killed by those who wish to convert others to their religion. It's not just Muslims killing Christians, it has happened for just about every religion out there.
Specifically about islam, though, I'm trying to understand more about what various religious writings have. From what I can find, there are statements from Muhammad that both dictate forced conversion as well as statements that dictate leaving others in peace.
For example, here's a statement that appears to be forcing conversion: Quote: Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."
And here's one that says leave people alone: Quote: I shall exempt them from that which may disturb them; of the burdens which are paid by others as an oath of allegiance. They must not give anything of their income but that which pleases them—they must not be offended, or disturbed, or coerced or compelled. Their judges should not be changed or prevented from accomplishing their offices, nor the monks disturbed in exercising their religious order, or the people of seclusion be stopped from dwelling in their cells.
Are these really just contradictory messages? I know religious questions are effectively impossible to answer, so I'd like to phrase things this way: Are Muhammad's writings 100% for forced conversion, 100% against, or do they give conflicting advice?
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