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Does islam require forced conversions?
Ragnarok.Action
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 69
By Ragnarok.Action 2014-09-23 11:14:59
The level of mental retardation, racism and sectarianism on these forums are very scary.
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Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-09-23 11:16:45
well think whatever you want, I'd just think twice before labeling all the faithful as a blight on society when that just isn't the case.
to be fair, I shared your fervor 15 some years ago.
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サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-23 11:23:24
The level of mental retardation due from blindly following a religion without question in this forum is very scary ftfy
By Blazed1979 2014-09-23 11:26:50
Asura.Refreshazure said: »The level of mental retardation due from blindly following a religion without question in this forum is very scary ftfy
Welcome to humanity no matter how ridiculous something is People will continue to believe it despite evidence otherwise.
IN B4 atheism is a religion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0A_iF1B3k0
Between you and Jet, I'm glad you're not on my side of the argument.
Keep posting bro.
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-23 11:27:34
Today on Masterpiece Theater: Apologetics.
Look hard enough and you can justify veiling women too. It's not bad, we're protecting them from the problems you people have in the West! It's wonderful. It's an act of compassion!
Bahamut.Milamber
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-09-23 11:30:03
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Today on Masterpiece Theater: Apologetics.
Look hard enough and you can justify veiling women too. It's not bad, we're protecting them from the problems you people have in the West! It's wonderful. It's an act of compassion! Increased protection from skin cancer and skin damage. UV is a ***, yo. It's for their own good.
Plus, have you seen what wind does to unbound long hair? This saves them hours of brushing and hundreds of dollars in detangling product.
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By Ramyrez 2014-09-23 11:30:14
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Today on Masterpiece Theater: Apologetics.
Look hard enough and you can justify veiling women too. It's not bad, we're protecting them from the problems you people have in the West! It's wonderful. It's an act of compassion!
Oh Allah/God/Cthulhu. Here we go.
Cut to the "that's not based in the religion but it some cultures that practice the religion" thing.
There's always an easy out for religion. "They interpreted the book wrong, that's not how it's really supposed to be."
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By Jetackuu 2014-09-23 11:31:35
Asura.Refreshazure said: »The level of mental retardation due from blindly following a religion without question in this forum is very scary ftfy
Welcome to humanity no matter how ridiculous something is People will continue to believe it despite evidence otherwise.
IN B4 atheism is a religion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0A_iF1B3k0
Between you and Jet, I'm glad you're not on my side of the argument.
Keep posting bro. So am I, so am I. RT may not have the best English in the world, and he may be a Mac user (I'll go logic him out of that one later) but at least he's not a religious apologist.
Lakshmi.Flavin
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-09-23 11:33:45
Refresh I could be on the same side as you and after reading all your posts be convinced to go join any other side than the one you're attempting to represent... that's how terrible your posts are... I'm not even sure half of them are in english and am always hoping that you're posting from a phone.
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By Blazed1979 2014-09-23 11:33:46
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Today on Masterpiece Theater: Apologetics.
Look hard enough and you can justify veiling women too. It's not bad, we're protecting them from the problems you people have in the West! It's wonderful. It's an act of compassion!
Oh Allah/God/Cthulhu. Here we go.
Cut to the " that's not based in the religion but it some cultures that practice the religion" thing.
There's always an easy out for religion. "They interpreted the book wrong, that's not how it's really supposed to be."
So you're informed then I guess?
You quoted the most common response from Muslims about the subject as a means of discrediting what Muslims have to say about the subject?
Intriguing...
Bahamut.Milamber
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-09-23 11:34:11
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Today on Masterpiece Theater: Apologetics.
Look hard enough and you can justify veiling women too. It's not bad, we're protecting them from the problems you people have in the West! It's wonderful. It's an act of compassion!
Oh Allah/God/Cthulhu. Here we go.
Cut to the "that's not based in the religion but it some cultures that practice the religion" thing.
There's always an easy out for religion. "They interpreted the book wrong, that's not how it's really supposed to be." Not just religion. http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong_p2.html
CrackedArticle said: What it's really about:
Bradbury was actually more concerned with TV destroying interest in literature than he was with government censorship and officials running around libraries with lit matches. According to Bradbury, television is useless and compresses important information about the world into little factoids, contributing to society's ever-shrinking attention span. Like "Video Killed the Radio Star," television would kill the, uh, book star (he said same thing about radio too, by the way). An interesting rant from the author, considering that much of Bradbury's fame was a direct result of his stories being portrayed on science fiction shows.
...
What probably pissed Bradbury off more than anything was that people completely disregarded his interpretation of his own book. In fact, when Bradbury was a guest lecturer in a class at UCLA, students flat-out told him to his face that he was mistaken and that his book is really about censorship. He walked out.
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By Jetackuu 2014-09-23 11:34:40
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Today on Masterpiece Theater: Apologetics.
Look hard enough and you can justify veiling women too. It's not bad, we're protecting them from the problems you people have in the West! It's wonderful. It's an act of compassion!
Oh Allah/God/Cthulhu. Here we go.
Cut to the " that's not based in the religion but it some cultures that practice the religion" thing.
There's always an easy out for religion. "They interpreted the book wrong, that's not how it's really supposed to be."
So you're informed then I guess?
You quoted the most common response from Muslims about the subject as a means discrediting what Muslims have to say about the subject?
Intriguing...
popular sure doesn't mean right.
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Ragnarok.Sekundes
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4191
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2014-09-23 11:35:17
Asura.Refreshazure said: »If you want to have a logical discussion of this, you're doing it very wrong. The way you present your arguments would be seen as offensive in the best case...
I'm no fan of religion in any form but acting this way to people who are is not helping.
By Blazed1979 2014-09-23 11:36:43
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Today on Masterpiece Theater: Apologetics.
Look hard enough and you can justify veiling women too. It's not bad, we're protecting them from the problems you people have in the West! It's wonderful. It's an act of compassion!
Oh Allah/God/Cthulhu. Here we go.
Cut to the " that's not based in the religion but it some cultures that practice the religion" thing.
There's always an easy out for religion. "They interpreted the book wrong, that's not how it's really supposed to be."
So you're informed then I guess?
You quoted the most common response from Muslims about the subject as a means discrediting what Muslims have to say about the subject?
Intriguing...
popular sure doesn't mean right. Ah, so you are now the authority on Islam?
Forget the Muslims! Tell us more about your sectarian brand of Islam. You are obviously right.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-23 11:37:34
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »Asura.Refreshazure said: »If you want to have a logical discussion of this, you're doing it very wrong. The way you present your arguments would be seen as offensive in the best case...
I'm no fan of religion in any form but acting this way to people who are is not helping.
Going to be real for a second here: There's no real way to have a discussion about reality with a religious person without being offensive.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-23 11:38:35
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Today on Masterpiece Theater: Apologetics.
Look hard enough and you can justify veiling women too. It's not bad, we're protecting them from the problems you people have in the West! It's wonderful. It's an act of compassion!
Oh Allah/God/Cthulhu. Here we go.
Cut to the " that's not based in the religion but it some cultures that practice the religion" thing.
There's always an easy out for religion. "They interpreted the book wrong, that's not how it's really supposed to be."
So you're informed then I guess?
You quoted the most common response from Muslims about the subject as a means discrediting what Muslims have to say about the subject?
Intriguing...
popular sure doesn't mean right. Ah, so you are now the authority on Islam?
Forget the Muslims! Tell us more about your sectarian brand of Islam. You are obviously right. Do you enjoy repeating your no true Scotsman arguments or are just totally oblivious to you making them?
By Ramyrez 2014-09-23 11:38:58
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »Asura.Refreshazure said: »If you want to have a logical discussion of this, you're doing it very wrong. The way you present your arguments would be seen as offensive in the best case...
I'm no fan of religion in any form but acting this way to people who are is not helping.
Going to be real for a second here: There's no real way to have a discussion about reality with a religious person without being offensive.
Hence my multiple pictures of the Lovecraftian themes!
Here. Have another! Elder horrors can be adorable!
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By Blazed1979 2014-09-23 11:39:39
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »Asura.Refreshazure said: »If you want to have a logical discussion of this, you're doing it very wrong. The way you present your arguments would be seen as offensive in the best case...
I'm no fan of religion in any form but acting this way to people who are is not helping.
Going to be real for a second here: There's no real way to have a discussion about reality with a religious person without being offensive.
Keep keepin' it real bro.
By Blazed1979 2014-09-23 11:41:30
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Today on Masterpiece Theater: Apologetics.
Look hard enough and you can justify veiling women too. It's not bad, we're protecting them from the problems you people have in the West! It's wonderful. It's an act of compassion!
Oh Allah/God/Cthulhu. Here we go.
Cut to the " that's not based in the religion but it some cultures that practice the religion" thing.
There's always an easy out for religion. "They interpreted the book wrong, that's not how it's really supposed to be."
So you're informed then I guess?
You quoted the most common response from Muslims about the subject as a means discrediting what Muslims have to say about the subject?
Intriguing...
popular sure doesn't mean right. Ah, so you are now the authority on Islam?
Forget the Muslims! Tell us more about your sectarian brand of Islam. You are obviously right. Do you enjoy repeating your no true Scotsman arguments or are just totally oblivious to you making them?
Do you have any other lines?
You said "common" does not mean "right" - so please enlighten me as to how when Muslims say something regarding their faith and what it teaches, you know better and are more "right".
By Jetackuu 2014-09-23 11:44:04
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Today on Masterpiece Theater: Apologetics.
Look hard enough and you can justify veiling women too. It's not bad, we're protecting them from the problems you people have in the West! It's wonderful. It's an act of compassion!
Oh Allah/God/Cthulhu. Here we go.
Cut to the " that's not based in the religion but it some cultures that practice the religion" thing.
There's always an easy out for religion. "They interpreted the book wrong, that's not how it's really supposed to be."
So you're informed then I guess?
You quoted the most common response from Muslims about the subject as a means discrediting what Muslims have to say about the subject?
Intriguing...
popular sure doesn't mean right. Ah, so you are now the authority on Islam?
Forget the Muslims! Tell us more about your sectarian brand of Islam. You are obviously right. Do you enjoy repeating your no true Scotsman arguments or are just totally oblivious to you making them?
Do you have any other lines?
You said "common" does not mean "right" - so please enlighten me as to how when Muslims say something regarding their faith and what it teaches, you know better and are more "right".
/sigh
Because some Muslims believe otherwise, and your book says otherwise.
I'll take that you're both Muslim and believers, and you may not adhere to the radical sides of the doctrine, but that's not what's being discussed here.
You keep using the argument, so yes I'll keep calling you out on your fallacy as long as you keep using it. Also I said just because something is popular doesn't make it right, that being said it doesn't exclude it either.
By Blazed1979 2014-09-23 11:45:45
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Today on Masterpiece Theater: Apologetics.
Look hard enough and you can justify veiling women too. It's not bad, we're protecting them from the problems you people have in the West! It's wonderful. It's an act of compassion!
Oh Allah/God/Cthulhu. Here we go.
Cut to the " that's not based in the religion but it some cultures that practice the religion" thing.
There's always an easy out for religion. "They interpreted the book wrong, that's not how it's really supposed to be."
So you're informed then I guess?
You quoted the most common response from Muslims about the subject as a means discrediting what Muslims have to say about the subject?
Intriguing...
popular sure doesn't mean right. Ah, so you are now the authority on Islam?
Forget the Muslims! Tell us more about your sectarian brand of Islam. You are obviously right. Do you enjoy repeating your no true Scotsman arguments or are just totally oblivious to you making them?
Do you have any other lines?
You said "common" does not mean "right" - so please enlighten me as to how when Muslims say something regarding their faith and what it teaches, you know better and are more "right".
/sigh
Because some Muslims believe otherwise, and your book says otherwise.
I'll take that you're both Muslim and believers, and you may not adhere to the radical sides of the doctrine, but that's not what's being discussed here.
You keep using the argument, so yes I'll keep calling you out on your fallacy as long as you keep using it. Also I said just because something is popular doesn't make it right, that being said it doesn't exclude it either.
How many is some, and what does the book say about this subject?
By Jetackuu 2014-09-23 11:49:03
How many is some, and what does the book say about this subject?
It was what, up to 25%? It was referenced earlier in one of these threads, too lazy to go grab it.
But it doesn't matter if it's just 1, or 1 billion really.
Lakshmi.Flavin
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-09-23 11:58:49
Asura.Refreshazure said: »Refresh I could be on the same side as you and after reading all your posts be convinced to go join any other side than the one you're attempting to represent... that's how terrible your posts are... I'm not even sure half of them are in english and am always hoping that you're posting from a phone.
My apologies my English is from a mid Bush administration school didn't really need to use English spelling after the school system exploded.
Course that's a completely different topic.
But yeah
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy
there are plenty of people who could argue for secularism Way better than me.
I suggest reading the works of the late Christopher Hitchens.
but the fact that my jumbled mess of English still makes more sense than Christianity and Islam. There you go with your fallacy links again... lol...
I never argued that your argument was wrong but you clearly haven't put forth much of anything to convince anyone it was right... My statement was to point out how bad you are at this and how you're doing more harm than good to whatever your cause actually is... it's actually pretty hard to get what you're even arguing for as a coherent thought rarely gets into any of your posts...
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There is no question that many people have been killed by those who wish to convert others to their religion. It's not just Muslims killing Christians, it has happened for just about every religion out there.
Specifically about islam, though, I'm trying to understand more about what various religious writings have. From what I can find, there are statements from Muhammad that both dictate forced conversion as well as statements that dictate leaving others in peace.
For example, here's a statement that appears to be forcing conversion: Quote: Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."
And here's one that says leave people alone: Quote: I shall exempt them from that which may disturb them; of the burdens which are paid by others as an oath of allegiance. They must not give anything of their income but that which pleases them—they must not be offended, or disturbed, or coerced or compelled. Their judges should not be changed or prevented from accomplishing their offices, nor the monks disturbed in exercising their religious order, or the people of seclusion be stopped from dwelling in their cells.
Are these really just contradictory messages? I know religious questions are effectively impossible to answer, so I'd like to phrase things this way: Are Muhammad's writings 100% for forced conversion, 100% against, or do they give conflicting advice?
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