Does Islam Require Forced Conversions?

It depends on the topic.
- Gay rights? Abomination to god, and opens the door to beastiality.
- Abortion? Abomination to god, magic vaginas, and legitimite rape.
- Birth control? Abomination to god, magic vaginas, abstinence
- Non-profit status for religions? Don't even touch that.
- How many places have laws against "Immoral XXx" or "Indecent YYY"?
- Sales of alcohol on sundays?

What is a magic vagina and what kind of magics can I perform with it?

If the USA is largely Christian at 78%(http://religions.pewforum.org/reports#), the US House of Congress is 88% Christian and the Senate is 79% Christian (http://www.pewforum.org/2012/11/16/faith-on-the-hill-the-religious-composition-of-the-113th-congress/), doesn't that make the country Christian? Especially when you have little tidbits like In God We Trust, swearing to tell the truth on the Bible, God Bless America which many want to be the national anthem instead of the Star Spangled Banner, etc.

You used a Huff Post article as a source, so your argument is automatically wrong.

Nothing fun. Pretty sure he is referring to this

Ah, I see your point.
The current Egyptian military that rules Egypt toppled the Brotherhood's reign because they do not want Islamist ruling the country - why: Islamist believe in political Islam, no separation between religious beliefs and governance of the people. That would be fine if they practiced what the majority of muslims understand to be Islam; tolerance and social equality, freedom of choice.

Its a rather complex topic but to summarize it as best as I can:

A dude from Egypt who visited and lived in the United States by the name of Qutob was disgusted by American Society. off the top of my head this was in the 1930's?. Anyways he returned to Egypt with a very radical view on the west and was very anti-modernization and secularism. He pointed out to things such as usury/interest banking, more sexual freedom such as sexual relations out of wedlock, alcohol consumption and other stuff as clear signs that secularism would destroy the muslim household. He took it upon himself to develop a doctrine that is very intolerant. Knee-jerk reaction to the time he spent in the US. He hated it. Some of his disciples are pretty well known today; Aymen Al Zawahari, Osama Bin Laden's mentor, close friend and current #1 in Al Qaeda.

Jamal Abdulnasser's group seized power after a military coup that ousted the monarch, King Farook. Abdulnasser was a secularist and nationlist and arabist. When a british journalist asked AbdulNasser why he didn't pick up the banner of Islam, he said he didn't want to alienate any religious minorities within the region. He was seeking a unified Arab world.

Qutob and his gang were considered dangerous by the state and failed talks and concessions by the Nasser regime quickly lead to the brotherhood being considered a radical group and threat to the state's unity. Measures were taken- rather harsh measures. They made martyrs out of them, and the brotherhood gained more followers but disappeared from the political scene for the most part.

The brotherhood would return into the spotlight as public enemy #1 when they assassinated President Anwar Sadat. His assassin was identified as a muslim brotherhood sympathizer who's stated reasons for killing Sadat was because he was a traitor to both the arab and "brotherhood" cause.

The brotherhood in Egypt would disappear into the shadows but still remain a powerful social force - teaching and preaching their extreme political take on Islam for decades, covertly.

The Muslim brotherhood spread across the region and found some temporary alliances. As long as they didn't make any political moves, they were tolerated.

However, over the course of 40 years they grew in numbers drastically. When sept.11th happened, they were quickly identified as a potential problem. They became persecuted in the nations that were hosting them and kicked out and it was at that moment that the gulf realized how far they had infiltrated society.

For the next 10 years the US and the majority of the Gulf states worked together to rid the region of any remnants of brotherhood dogma and influence. It worked.

Skip to the Arab spring - the Muslim brotherhood hijacked the revolution and turned it into an Islamist bid for power. Due to them being the oldest and most experienced covert political party in the region, and their network, they were able to seize power.

Now I don't know exactly how bad they are or how evil they are. I don't know any brotherhood sympathizers or members to question them. But they did make attempts to topple many governments in recent years but all were thwarted due to lack of any support.

To answer your question, I mentioned the Islamist because they would have imposed their version of extreme interpretations of Islam (cover your head woman, beat her if she disobeys, chop the hands off of the thief etc etc).

So in short, there is no tolerance in Egypt for Islamists, and all the women violations that occur there are a result of secularist regimes, not Islamists. But then again, a true Muslim regime would be recognize freedom of choice, thus rendering itself just a normal regime and probably secularist.
You would never get homosexual rights or lesbian rights in a Muslim regime, but it wouldn't be spying on people or watching what they do in their own houses, nor would they tell people to "cover up" unless it was against society norms.


pheewww, maaaan I hope you benefited from that...

one nation under god

Republicans being Republicans.

Some valid, some invalid.

1. Gay Rights - true, we believe that homosexuality is beyond a major sin. But so does every Abrahamic religion. Having said that, they would have the rights of every citizen. Islam forbids spying on citizens. Unless the homosexuals were caught in public and seen by 4 adults sodomizing each other with each witness able to say for certain they saw the penetration in detail, nothing would happen to them. Or if they openly preached homosexuality.

2.Abortion - its as tricky and as sensitive as it is in the west, for different reasons. I'm not a mufti or cleric so I can't say which opinion prevails. The discourse and discussion on this needs to be more public. Having said that, abortion due to rape or because the mother is at risk is fine. God clearly states in the Quran it is not permissible to kill your children for fear of poverty, for he will provide for them.

3. Birth control an abomination to God - yeah not over here dude or anywhere in the Arab Muslim world. We're not big on the pills because of medical complications such as menstrual cycle complications and early menopause. But condoms, sex gel, lube can be bought at the gas station that are open 24/7. Interesting, if a minor asks for condoms they MUST be given them by law. Better to let the dude have protected sex than have a teen prego.

4.- Non-profit status for religions? Don't even touch that - not sure what you mean by this? Red Crescent?

5.How many places have laws against "Immoral XXx" or "Indecent YYY"? All of them with the exception of maybe Lebanon? Immoral behavior includes sex in public. But that's not limited to Muslim communities. Most muslim women don't go out in bikinis and flashy high heels. If they do, their business. But most don't. There are societal norms and cultures that should be respected by all citizens. Micro skirts that allow me to see a woman's underwear would be considered not ok. She would be asked to go home if she drew too much attention and too many people protested. She wouldn't be flogged or anything like that.

6. We have a lot of expats (600k Brit expats, 230k Germans, 300-400k EU's + a lot of Indians and Philipinos in a country that is only 8.5-10,000,000) Alcohol is normal. Its sold for the people who posses a liquor license. To get one, you just need to not be a muslim. Other Arab Muslim countries don't even require that. It would depend which one you are talking about which is why I always ask people to not generalize. In Lebanon, anyone can drink. In Sudan some do it in their homes. In Saudi Arabia you're *** if you're caught. In UAE, cause no trouble you will get no trouble. When it doubt, what you do in your home is your own business.

Basically, you just gave one side of the story (your own biases against the Muslim Brotherhood). But to be honest, since I have absolutely no plans in living in Egypt ever in my life, I really do not care what they do over there. It's their society, I say let them handle it the way they want to.

If they want to live as a peaceful society practicing Islam, then by all means, good for them.

If they want to live as a hateful society against the US, then good for them also. Attack me, and watch how fast I backhand them back to the stone age.

But as long as they leave me alone, I'll leave them alone. And that's how it should be for all of US foreign policy.....

the private schools are I worked at are religious nonprofit campuses.

lolMacs

They aren't bad to work for, are they?

I actually tried to keep it as factual and close to documented history as possible. Its true I don't believe in the Islamist mission - look at ISIS - but then again I don't agree with religion being in politics or politics in religion.

You and I seem to want the same thing. More than you know.
I have two potential problems in practicing my religion as I see fit - ISIS who want me and the rest of the Muslim world to take up their crazy beliefs - and an angry west that believe my religion is evil. We feel flanked from both sides and its why we're starting to speak up. A lot of us never thought that people with access to the modern world wouldn't be able to differentiate 99.99% of us from the crazies. But a lot of us are learning that we need to speak up and at least represent what it is we believe.

EDIT: keep that in mind when I step up to ask people to differentiate between Islamists/Brotherhood/ISIS/Al Qaeda and the normal people.

If I see a "those damn muslims" I feel compelled to speak up. Its out of necessity now, ***has hit the fan and it feels like my kids won't live to see 20.

They're not bad. Just like any other school just have a religious theme to it. Like prayer in the morning and stuff. Of course since they're private they have pretty high tuition rates considering its for grades k - 12. Like $4~8k/year or semester.

It wasn't a bad work environment, just felt kinda cult-ish (then again i'm not really religious) ~ one was a lutheran school the other catholic

religions are cults dude

I went to a catholic school in L.A
My dad pulled me out when I came home one day saying that Jesus will never forgive him if he doesn't buy me a Nintendo with Duck hunt.

EDIT: I did end up getting a Nintendo, but no duck hunt. Just super Mario Bross and that stupid stupid stupid robot that broke on the first day and did nothing.

People get so energized over these things, I know I can. That's why I try to understand whatever I can, so I can tell the difference between someone who is just uninformed and someone who is just plain crazy.

I love all the discussion you guys have had today! I'd love to have a good thread especially about the women's rights issues in arab countries, but that's a tough one to tackle.

Anyway, getting back to my original question, it appears that from what's posted, there are contradictions in Muhammad's texts that cause confusion. Since people are always interpreting these texts however they like, you can get pretty much any meaning you want from them! The fun thing to do to cause real trouble is to pin someone down and ask them what they make of the contradictory text in the books they follow.

Specifically for islam, if they DO agree with forced conversion, show them the Achtiname_of_Muhammad. If they do NOT agree with forced conversion, show them Sahih al-Bukhari, 1:2:25.

contradictory "holy" texts, nothing new.

With regards to the OP: Same question is commonly raised, here is your answer:

I'm not sure how putting forth any of these changes anything.

I've already agreed that there is Christian influence in the government but stated that it is not largely run under christian influence. Nothing you've put forward changes that and I've already mentioned things like abortion and gay marriage.

I didn't see anything ... I did see one comment asking for scripture location, but that's all. Though I did kind of skim 7 pages of comments, so I might have missed it.

Come on people we're almost to page 10 within 24 hours, KEEP ON CHUGGIN'

Actually, it's not really even largely christian influence - it's monetary influence. People with the most money donated get elected, donations comes from rich individuals and corporations (who are really just fake "people" directed by the rich people on the board of directors for that company). Since many of the rich individuals/companies are christian, you end up with candidates who are christian too.

Easy solution - stop electing people based on how much money they raise, and the country becomes a true secular state.

Of course, many people want a non-secular state, specifically one where their religion guides the laws. But if you're going to have a country where more than one religion is present in any real amount (which is every country), the only reasonable solution is a secular state.

That's actually not bad at all.

The private school (not religious either) near my house costs $15k per semester to attend.

Supposed to be the best in the area too. All they produce is bullshiting snobs imo.