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October Job Adjustments
Ragnarok.Afania
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-09-30 11:39:21
and ~18% behind a tinhhaspa mnk.
Which set/buff did you use? The number seems lower than/about the same as Uson/Bura BLU......
Bahamut.Malothar
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 396
By Bahamut.Malothar 2014-09-30 11:40:02
No....just no. Remember pre-SoA when empy was a requirement to play the job so everyone and their mother live in abyssea for years? Players shouldn't be forced to go back and farm ToAU just to do endgame. Mythic should be a bonus and an option to spend time and money for ppl with too much time/gil, it should never be a requirement for every endgame player.
Agreed, but SE needs to decide what stance they want to take. Early on they said RMEs would be balanced to be a relevant option compared to other 119s, some a lil weaker, some a lil stronger. But we're still at the point where mythics are (largely) miles ahead of other options, with proper support. Incursion as an example, without stuns, mythics prolly aren't worth the trouble. But with proper support backing them up, they completely outclass everything else available, including other relics and empys. They either need other weapons to get closer to that mark, or make them the point of balance when it comes to endgame.
Ragnarok.Afania
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-09-30 11:42:47
No....just no. Remember pre-SoA when empy was a requirement to play the job so everyone and their mother live in abyssea for years? Players shouldn't be forced to go back and farm ToAU just to do endgame. Mythic should be a bonus and an option to spend time and money for ppl with too much time/gil, it should never be a requirement for every endgame player.
Agreed, but SE needs to decide what stance they want to take. Early on they said RMEs would be balanced to be a relevant option compared to other 119s, some a lil weaker, some a lil stronger. But we're still at the point where mythics are (largely) miles ahead of other options, with proper support. Incursion as an example, without stuns, mythics prolly aren't worth the trouble. But with proper support backing them up, they completely outclass everything else available, including other relics and empys. They either need other weapons to get closer to that mark, or make them the point of balance when it comes to endgame.
They totally do, if alex still cost 20k each, current strength for mythic would be just right. Now that mythic is cheaper than an empy, it really shouldn't be that strong. I hope they can fix the gap after next ilv, empy/relic needs a boost, so does other endgame weapons.
Bismarck.Inference
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 417
By Bismarck.Inference 2014-09-30 11:43:34
surumaru is just a really well-apportioned weapon. Your statement is true for samurai too. Only Koga really beats Tsurumaru. Amano and Masamune do not.
I don't disagree with this, I was more talking between jobs. Tinhapsa MNK should be able to remain competitve with Tsurumaru. However a WAR DRK or DRG without a mythic is barely even a DD by today's standards, and getting one doesn't automatically guarantee you're the top of the foodchain against your non-mythic friends(when a Koga SAM loses to a non-mythic they get laughed at, when a WAR does you just feel bad for them cause you know it can happen easily).
Not to sound like a "MNK and SAM only" kind of person as I'm not. Current content doesn't require anywhere near optimal DPS, but everyone would probably have more fun if heavy DD were better balanced.
Asura.Ccl
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1995
By Asura.Ccl 2014-09-30 11:43:36
Quote: Tsurumaru is just a really well-apportioned weapon. Your statement is true for samurai too. Only Koga really beats Tsurumaru. Amano and Masamune do not.
Yes but I think it's kind of overstated. The Save TP's great, yeah, but in practice most SAM gear has so much STP on it that getting 25 TP back on a WS wouldn't involve changing much. I'd WS in the Relic body rather than Phorcys. IMO Amano and Masamune are problematic due to the delay, which is just something particular to those weapons.
Tsurumaru actually give 35 tp back and can do with 0 stp in ws gear wich mean you can go for max dmg on ws too.
With Haste + double March, SAM can reliably self-SC without JAs other than Zanhasso, yeah.
ccl said: I fear that the gap between mythic and non mythic dd will be a lot bigger if they don't do something about it, we might not get a tsurumaru on next ilvl :(
I would not mind seeing the mythic requirements reduced to the point where making one can seriously be considered mandatory for endgame content. Maybe, like, cut all the different currencies to a third of what they are now.
Before everybody huffs and struts around in their big boy pants on me, a major reason the game's so easy right now is that mythics are so powerful, but not attainable enough to balance content around.
No....just no. Remember pre-SoA when empy was a requirement to play the job so everyone and their mother live in abyssea for years? Players shouldn't be forced to go back and farm ToAU just to do endgame. Mythic should be a bonus and an option to spend time and money for ppl with too much time/gil, it should never be a requirement for every endgame player.
It's already to case for "top tier" group it's either koga, ryu, conqueror or tsurumaru fpr all the 132+ /tell I got on Asura :(
Every job need a tsurumaru like weapon compared to the job mythic, or I really fear next ilvl :(
By Fasaga 2014-09-30 11:50:13
and ~18% behind a tinhhaspa mnk.
What set/buff did you use?
Berserk needs like job haste. 30% + merits and JP augments are nice but war is kind of slow compared to mnks and sams. That's the issue with having a super powerful, but slower delay weapons.
But capped haste? WAR is more powerful than SAMs and MNKs, especially those who are 5 hit WARs with Conqueror. At capped haste with standard brd+geo buffs according the the spreadsheets a Qalgwer war is ~32% behind a tsumaru sam, and ~18% behind a tinhhaspa mnk. As far as mythics are concerned, conq is ~24% behind koga, and ~8% behind a glazfaust. It should be noted that conq is also ~9% tsumaru. I have a Conqueror, I have a 5-hit, that doesn't change the fact that I can still change to samurai, equip a tsumaru and out damage myself. I don't mind that warrior is weaker dps wise than sam, I was really hoping for the job adjustment to be some sort of warcry/bloodrage duration buff rather than straight damage. It should also be noted that as far as zergs go, in a 30 second zerg sam can still outparse a SP1/2 war because of the high amount of WS frequency from sekka>fudo x2> 2Hr > meditate > fudo x4-8.
By ScaevolaBahamut 2014-09-30 11:52:23
Quote: Tsurumaru actually give 35 tp back and can do with 0 stp in ws gear wich mean you can go for max dmg on ws too.
The 35 is under Ionis, you only need 25 to secure the 4-hit, and with Relic body you're getting your additional TP back for Overwhelm. It's a wash.
As for max damage on WS, seriously, WS gear for SAM is itemized such that the only thing you'd need to change is the body. It's great that I'm free to WS in Phorcys, but Tsurumaru allowing me to do that is not why SAM is so dominant among sub-mythic DDs. It's because I can self-sc without a JA (which I would still be able to do with another 450+ delay weapon) and my strongest WS chains Light with itself.
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Asura.Ccl
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1995
By Asura.Ccl 2014-09-30 11:56:40
Quote: Tsurumaru actually give 35 tp back and can do with 0 stp in ws gear wich mean you can go for max dmg on ws too.
The 35 is under Ionis, you only need 25 to secure the 4-hit, and with Relic body you're getting your additional TP back for Overwhelm. It's a wash.
As for max damage on WS, seriously, WS gear for SAM is itemized such that the only thing you'd need to change is the body. It's great that I'm free to WS in Phorcys, but Tsurumaru allowing me to do that is not why SAM is so dominant among sub-mythic DDs. It's because I can self-sc without a JA (which I would still be able to do with another 450+ delay weapon) and my strongest WS chains Light with itself.
Not only you can ws in max dmg (ifrit+1; ouryu legs; phorcys, duplus) but also can tp in much more da/ta/qa if you only need 21.7 tp/hit instead of 25 wich make tsuru "somewhat close" to mythic da/ta compared to other dd/gkt.
By Chyula 2014-09-30 12:16:05
LOL at war buff but I guess its better than nothing. I was hoping they would change back to the pre nerf ukko furry and bloodrage stage.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-30 12:20:32
LOL at war buff but I guess its better than nothing. I was hoping they would change back to the pre nerf ukko furry and bloodrage stage. But then the SAMs with the easy-to-get GKs will *** about their weapons being inferior to mythic heavy-DD jobs. SE can't allow that, can they?
Bismarck.Herzins
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 172
By Bismarck.Herzins 2014-09-30 12:26:54
Bismarck.Inference said: »When a job requires mythic to remain competitive with a Delve 1.0 drop I think that's kind of a red flag.
Tsurumaru is just a really well-apportioned weapon. Your statement is true for samurai too. Only Koga really beats Tsurumaru. Amano and Masamune do not.
With Haste + double March, SAM can reliably self-SC without JAs other than Zanhasso, yeah.
ccl said: I fear that the gap between mythic and non mythic dd will be a lot bigger if they don't do something about it, we might not get a tsurumaru on next ilvl :(
I would not mind seeing the mythic requirements reduced to the point where making one can seriously be considered mandatory for endgame content. Maybe, like, cut all the different currencies to a third of what they are now.
Before everybody huffs and struts around in their big boy pants on me, a major reason the game's so easy right now is that mythics are so powerful, but not attainable enough to balance content around.
They kind of did this by letting a lot of Salvage cheaters get 30k worth of alex in a week or two of farming. There are a lot of new mythics. Sadly most of them belong to cheaters.
I thought those cheaters got canned/banned?
By Afania 2014-09-30 12:28:27
and ~18% behind a tinhhaspa mnk.
Which set/buff did you use?
Berserk needs like job haste. 30% + merits and JP augments are nice but war is kind of slow compared to mnks and sams. That's the issue with having a super powerful, but slower delay weapons.
But capped haste? WAR is more powerful than SAMs and MNKs, especially those who are 5 hit WARs with Conqueror. At capped haste with standard brd+geo buffs according the the spreadsheets a Qalgwer war is ~32% behind a tsumaru sam, and ~18% behind a tinhhaspa mnk. As far as mythics are concerned, conq is ~24% behind koga, and ~8% behind a glazfaust. It should be noted that conq is also ~9% tsumaru. I have a Conqueror, I have a 5-hit, that doesn't change the fact that I can still change to samurai, equip a tsumaru and out damage myself. I don't mind that warrior is weaker dps wise than sam, I was really hoping for the job adjustment to be some sort of warcry/bloodrage duration buff rather than straight damage. It should also be noted that as far as zergs go, in a 30 second zerg sam can still outparse a SP1/2 war because of the high amount of WS frequency from sekka>fudo x2> 2Hr > meditate > fudo x4-8.
and ~18% behind a tinhhaspa mnk.
Which set/buff did you use?
By Ramyrez 2014-09-30 12:28:51
Pretty sure unless they had prior offenses they got like...a 3-day temp ban.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-30 12:30:20
Pretty sure unless they had prior offenses they got like...a 3-day temp ban. Some of us who got mythics did it the old fashioned "work your *** off for months" way also.
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Asura.Ccl
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1995
By Asura.Ccl 2014-09-30 12:31:27
Yup I'm so sad I missed that alex thing I had to work HARD 2 weeks to get gil for alex :(
edit:
duplus is bad with mythics, use bloodrain. lenus could b fun but eh..
Tsurumaru isn't a mythic
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-30 12:37:30
Yup I'm so sad I missed that alex thing I had to work HARD 2 weeks to get gil for alex :( Unfortunately, some of us have lives outside the game and cannot farm gil constantly for 2 weeks to get the ~250-300 mil for alexs to complete a mythic.
I'm sure you also finished all the other items in less than a month also....
By ScaevolaBahamut 2014-09-30 12:38:24
Quote: Not only you can ws in max dmg (ifrit+1;
can use that anyway
for a truly game-breaking 2% DA and 8 attack over Wakido +1
a legit significant piece, but it's not like Relic body's garbage, either
fair but this means committing to it in your TP set, for whatever that's worth
Quote: but also can tp in much more da/ta/qa if you only need 21.7 tp/hit
But that's just it. Where are we getting this multihit that we couldn't use before, given that we can't help but be soaked in STP? I'll grant Duplus, but we sacrifice nothing to wear Ganesha and Windbuffet as it is.
(given Fudo's fTP now it's not even immediately clear to me you'd want to sacrifice gobs of STP for a slight chance at multihit, but that's another story)
Asura.Ccl
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1995
By Asura.Ccl 2014-09-30 12:46:01
On top of my head at least 12% DA on tp: head(otomi), body(xaddi), earring(trux), grip(duplus) and 2%TA Oneiros ring.
Pretty sure other non mythic dd can't ignore that much stp on tp w/o losing xhit.
Asura.Ccl
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1995
By Asura.Ccl 2014-09-30 12:47:25
Yup I'm so sad I missed that alex thing I had to work HARD 2 weeks to get gil for alex :( Unfortunately, some of us have lives outside the game and cannot farm gil constantly for 2 weeks to get the ~250-300 mil for alexs to complete a mythic.
I'm sure you also finished all the other items in less than a month also....
clear content on release cause you play with people that can stun, get 10 bole, server hop to server w/o win, sell them 20m each; come back with a koga!(Let's not mention those 20m buyers)
By ScaevolaBahamut 2014-09-30 12:48:03
On top of my head at least 12% DA on tp: head(otomi), body(xaddi), earring(trux), grip(duplus) and 2%TA Oneiros ring.
Pretty sure other non mythic dd can't ignore that much stp on tp w/o losing xhit.
That's a whole lot of accuracy to dump on anything that matters.
Oneiros is tight though, sure
Lakshmi.Zerowone
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6949
By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-09-30 12:48:26
Is that a trux+trip or trux+brutal combo?
Asura.Ccl
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1995
By Asura.Ccl 2014-09-30 12:51:10
trux+brutal instead of tripudio+brutal, let's not forget the fact that sam get zanhasso(1/4 of zanshin,at least 15%,last on priority proc) and /war(10more da than drg or drk)
By ScaevolaBahamut 2014-09-30 12:56:38
maybe i'm a rube but the idea of sacrificing 8 accuracy (steelflash + bladeborn) for 1 DA for like, anything in the game against which i have to actually press buttons is kind of uhhhhh
Asura.Ccl
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1995
By Asura.Ccl 2014-09-30 12:58:37
If we're talking accuracy set, tsuru keep it's 4 hit due to 35 tp return (koga doesn't keep 4hit on accuracy set), other dd lose their xhit too on accuracy set.
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2014-09-30 13:00:14
If we're talking accuracy set, tsuru keep it's 4 hit due to 35 tp return (koga doesn't keep 4hit on accuracy set), other dd lose their xhit too on accuracy set.
There is a difference between "a normal set that does not overly prioritize accuracy" and "running around with like 730"
By Ramyrez 2014-09-30 13:01:58
maybe i'm a rube but the idea of sacrificing 8 accuracy (steelflash + bladeborn) for 1 DA for like, anything in the game against which i have to actually press buttons is kind of uhhhhh
And Altana spoke unto the heathen masses, "Lo! Let the warriors of light in the world prepare multiple TP sets for multiple levels of monster evasion!"
And so it came to pass - facilitated by the Order of Gearswap and the older, more-established Brotherhood of Text Macros - that Altana's faithful entered battle well-prepared.
By ScaevolaBahamut 2014-09-30 13:03:43
maybe i'm a rube but the idea of sacrificing 8 accuracy (steelflash + bladeborn) for 1 DA for like, anything in the game against which i have to actually press buttons is kind of uhhhhh
And Altana spoke unto the heathen masses, "Lo! Let the warriors of light in the world prepare multiple TP sets for multiple levels of monster evasion!"
And so it came to pass - facilitated by the Order of Gearswap and the older, more-established Brotherhood of Text Macros - that Altana's faithful entered battle well-prepared.
lolfodder
i totally pwned the *** out of those 5 or so normal delve mobs i had to clear today
Asura.Ccl
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1995
By Asura.Ccl 2014-09-30 13:06:04
Ok and getting 35 tp return till favor that since it allow more flexibility on wich accuracy piece you can swap instead of stp.
Quote: [dev1235] Job Adjustments
The following jobs will undergo adjustments.
Warrior
The effects of the job ability Berserk will increase in stages as the player rises in level. Physical attack will increase by 1% per stage at levels 50, 60, 70, 80, and 90, and will reach a maximum of 30% when combined with the original effects.
The effects of the job ability Defender will increase in stages as the player rises in level. Physical defense will increase by 1% per stage at levels 50, 60, 70, 80, and 90, and will reach a maximum of 30% when combined with the original effects.
Thief
Dagger skill will be raised from A to A+.
Beastmaster
Axe skill will be raised from A to A+.
Familiars summoned using the Call Beast ability will have increased physical and magic accuracy when level 100 or above.
Ninja
A new job trait, Daken, will be added.
When equipped with a shuriken, the ninja will occasionally throw it upon autoattacking.
This trait will be learned at level 25 and will increase in stages at level 40, 55, 70, and 95.
* Shuriken thrown using Daken will not be consumed.
Sange will undergo the following adjustments.
Sange (Recast time: 3 min., effect duration: 60 sec.)
Daken will always activate but consume shuriken. Increase ranged accuracy by 25.
Katana skill will be raised from A to A+.
Dragoon
Wyverns will have increased physical and magic accuracy when level 100 or above.
Summoner
A new spell will be added.
Atomos (Lv. 75, Recast time: 60 sec.)
Removes one magic effect from an enemy and grants it to friendly players within area of effect.
* Atomos has no additional blood pacts usable during Astral Flow.
A new job ability, Apogee, will be added.
Apogee (Lv. 70, Recast time: 5 min., Effect duration: 60 sec.)
Decreases the recast time on the next blood pact, but causes it to consume more MP.
The job ability Avatar's Favor will be changed.
Penalties, including physical and magic attack, will be abolished.
The avatar's perpetuation cost will increase.
Avatars will have increased physical and magic accuracy when level 100 or above.
Blue Mage
The casting time of the following spells will be decreased.
Metallic Body / Warm-Up / Amplification / Zephyr Mantle / Triumphant Roar
The effect duration of the following spells will be increased.
Memento Mori / Reactor Cool / Saline Coat / Plasma Charge / Diamondhide / Magic Barrier / Barrier Tusk / Orcish Counterstance / Nature's Meditation / Zephyr Mantle / Triumphant Roar
The MP cost of Triumphant Roar will be decreased.
The efficacy of Regeneration will be increased.
Attribute adjustments will be added to the following spells.
Tempestuous Upheaval / Rending Deluge / Enbalming Earth / Foul Water / Retinal Glare / Subduction
Sword skill will be raised from A to A+.
Puppetmaster
Hand-to-hand skill will be raised from B+ to A+.
Automatons will have increased physical and magic accuracy when level 100 or above.
Dancer
The following job abilities will undergo adjustments.
The recast time for steps will be decreased from fifteen to five seconds.
The recast time for the job ability Presto will be decreased from thirty to fifteen seconds.
The job ability Climactic Flourish will receive a damage boost varying with charisma.
The job ability Striking Flourish will have its recast time decreased from 120 to thirty seconds and will receive a damage boost varying with charisma.
The job ability Ternary Flourish will have its recast time decreased from 120 to forty-five seconds and will receive a damage boost varying with charisma.
Dagger skill will be raised from B+ to A+.
Geomancer
A new job ability, Entrust, will be added.
Entrust (Lv. 75, Recast time: 10 min., Effect duration: 60sec.)
The next indicolure spell cast may target a party member.
The increase in pet Attack and ACC is nice. As is most 1-hand weapon skill ranking getting increased from A to A+. Avatar favor not gimping pets is long overdue.
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