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PLD Tanking - Keeping the Hate?
Leviathan.Kaparu
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 949
By Leviathan.Kaparu 2014-12-11 12:22:09
No matter the weapon, you're keeping hate through rangers
And Xaddi,
All Acc/PDT path, obviously
Accuracy is probably never going to be capped on anything VD-level and above unless you're getting a buff rotation on you(good luck with that), so pile as much as you can
Leviathan.Kaparu
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 949
By Leviathan.Kaparu 2014-12-11 12:23:21
For cures get that cure pot gear and self cure gear, dont need to be perfect but make it so u put HP+ gear on and enmity+ when you cure yourself.
For cures, don't cure yourself. The enmity is atrocious
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 707
By Shiva.Eightball 2014-12-11 12:30:49
Never self cure unless you are going to die or your healer is low on mp, otherwise you are just wasting mp/time that could be used towards something productive.
Lakshmi.Neboh
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 458
By Lakshmi.Neboh 2014-12-11 12:39:06
Kap, what are the augments on your Xaddi gear? Do you prefer acc over pdt?
I'm asking so many questions because I just got a 119 Burtgang but enmity control seems problematic because I can barely hit the damned things to maintain hate. I also go /blu and spam cocoon, blank gaze, and jettatura, but the recasts/cast times seems so high that the mob turns from me more times than it faces me.
For high tier mobs, how much acc do you recommend for a PLD? Here's my standard PDT-PDT-ACC set:
ItemSet 331515
All my Cizin +1 gear, have PDT/MDT 3~4% and ACC +8 augments. Weard mantle has VIT/DEX +2 and emnity +5. If you need more ACC, you can swap more Cizin +1 with the Xaddi gear (w/ ACC of course). And if you're still hurting for ACC, pop some food (sole sushi perhaps?). Keep enlight on.
I usually open up with Divine Emblem + flash (w/ crusade on). And rotate spells (flash, jet. and b. gaze - if on /blu, voke if on /war) and JAs (sentinel if for w/e, I lose hate, and shield bash). Pop defender when up. Etc...
EDIT: With Karieyh Ring, my atonements are capped at 1778.
Asura.Loire
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 563
By Asura.Loire 2014-12-11 13:30:38
Id get and use the new club from titan first of all, has PDT- and Enmity+6, merit realmrazer which is in my opinion the best PLD WS. Just no one uses because there was no good PLD clubs ever, when sharur first came out it was doing 4~5k on average and this was before ilvl gear. my item sets if you look em up are pretty up to date - new stuff from dec 9th update (i'll go look at em and update now if they arent updated) any specific questions ask away. Also you should put Fast cast gear in for any spells you cast bar enhancing spells like phalanx etc, then haste/enmity. For cures get that cure pot gear and self cure gear, dont need to be perfect but make it so u put HP+ gear on and enmity+ when you cure yourself. Your sets for tp and acc are well under being optimized for both purposes. And as Kap mentioned, cures for hate have long been dead.
Asura.Natenn
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1979
By Asura.Natenn 2014-12-11 22:32:12
Id get and use the new club from titan first of all, has PDT- and Enmity+6, merit realmrazer which is in my opinion the best PLD WS. Just no one uses because there was no good PLD clubs ever, when sharur first came out it was doing 4~5k on average and this was before ilvl gear. my item sets if you look em up are pretty up to date - new stuff from dec 9th update (i'll go look at em and update now if they arent updated) any specific questions ask away. Also you should put Fast cast gear in for any spells you cast bar enhancing spells like phalanx etc, then haste/enmity. For cures get that cure pot gear and self cure gear, dont need to be perfect but make it so u put HP+ gear on and enmity+ when you cure yourself. Your sets for tp and acc are well under being optimized for both purposes. And as Kap mentioned, cures for hate have long been dead. assuming all your rngs dont pull hate ever and voke/flash are up, you can pull hate back from self cure if you know how to set it up. If your doing anything with actual melee they should be tanking anyway
Asura.Natenn
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1979
By Asura.Natenn 2014-12-11 22:36:10
Missing a few acc isnt making or breaking a set either. Helm from Head wind helm, Supershear/Patricius, belt from incursion all i left out but thats just me. How is my acc set "well under being optimized"? Not that you would know cause you don't know crap and you just hating
Asura.Loire
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 563
By Asura.Loire 2014-12-11 22:48:47
Riiiiight I'll assume you've never touched a spreadsheet so you can go about your ignorance if want.
[+]
Asura.Natenn
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1979
By Asura.Natenn 2014-12-11 23:25:03
Riiiiight I'll assume you've never touched a spreadsheet so you can go about your ignorance if want. prove me wrong then, since you obviously know more about my main job then i do.
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1899
By Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai 2014-12-11 23:29:12
lol
Stop optimizing hating, Loire.
Asura.Natenn
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1979
By Asura.Natenn 2014-12-11 23:33:17
yet he shows no proof.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 707
By Shiva.Eightball 2014-12-11 23:45:35
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/31068-Elements-to-be-Implemented-in-the-March-27th-Version-Update?p=407868#post407868
http://kanican.livejournal.com/tag/enmity%20testing%21
if you would be so kind as to read the links i provided i can put this in a language you can understand.
i am going to use the modifiers from 75 since he didn't test after cap raise but it will still illustrate the point you don't seem to get about healing for hate.
if you were to cure for 500 hp you would have gotten 2180 VE and 363.5 CE
very nice enmity numbers right? ok well "now" that same cure would net you 654 VE and 109 CE all for 88 mp
you could cast blank gaze 3 times and have mp left over (25 MP cost) and get 960 VE/CE and build more CE per spell than cure 4
and assuming by his model enmity modifiers for cure go down with higher lvls the real values are likely even smaller.
curing for hate is not worth your time/mp
Asura.Natenn
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1979
By Asura.Natenn 2014-12-11 23:56:14
sry first 1 went wrong place gotta find it again.
http://kanican.livejournal.com/tag/enmity%20testing%21
if you would be so kind as to read the links i provided i can put this in a language you can understand.
i am going to use the modifiers from 75 since he didn't test after cap raise but it will still illustrate the point you don't seem to get about healing for hate.
if you were to cure for 500 hp you would have gotten 2180 VE and 363.5 CE
very nice enmity numbers right? ok well "now" that same cure would net you 654 VE and 109 CE all for 88 mp
you could cast blank gaze 3 times and have mp left over (25 MP cost) and get 960 VE/CE and build more CE per spell than cure 4
and assuming by his model enmity modifiers for cure go down with higher lvls the real values are likely even smaller.
curing for hate is not worth your time/mp if hate is capped it most certainly is, any pld worth their salt knows this. Any enmity+ action you take with capped hate if someone pulls hate gets it back even if its a cure I.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 707
By Shiva.Eightball 2014-12-12 00:02:45
so you are saying you spam cure 1 to keep hate?
Asura.Loire
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 563
By Asura.Loire 2014-12-12 00:10:16
Since you are such the hero
Low acc DD set
ItemSet 331535
High acc DD set
ItemSet 331536
Asura.Natenn
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1979
By Asura.Natenn 2014-12-12 00:22:03
Low acc set yea that mantle wont drop, legs/feet no.Ares +1 legs/eje boots are better, rest is the same.
Acc set havn't really looked into unity stuff yet so missed the 21 accmantle, acc set your not capped haste(unless you have ionis) and use burmete, more acc. Neck yea havn't gotten it since theres no real content i need that much acc for for that cost. thought we were arguing about curing for hate?
Asura.Loire
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 563
By Asura.Loire 2014-12-12 00:26:08
Ares are worse than Cizin, eje is worse than xaddi. Buremete aren't worth the loss of deff and -pdt for content you need that acc for and can stick in agitator's if you are worried as well.
Leviathan.Kaparu
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 949
By Leviathan.Kaparu 2014-12-12 14:40:30
sry first 1 went wrong place gotta find it again.
http://kanican.livejournal.com/tag/enmity%20testing%21
if you would be so kind as to read the links i provided i can put this in a language you can understand.
i am going to use the modifiers from 75 since he didn't test after cap raise but it will still illustrate the point you don't seem to get about healing for hate.
if you were to cure for 500 hp you would have gotten 2180 VE and 363.5 CE
very nice enmity numbers right? ok well "now" that same cure would net you 654 VE and 109 CE all for 88 mp
you could cast blank gaze 3 times and have mp left over (25 MP cost) and get 960 VE/CE and build more CE per spell than cure 4
and assuming by his model enmity modifiers for cure go down with higher lvls the real values are likely even smaller.
curing for hate is not worth your time/mp if hate is capped it most certainly is, any pld worth their salt knows this. Any enmity+ action you take with capped hate if someone pulls hate gets it back even if its a cure I.
So will swinging your weapon, which comes with the added benefit of not being a waste of time
Asura.Loire
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 563
By Asura.Loire 2014-12-12 14:53:59
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/31068-Elements-to-be-Implemented-in-the-March-27th-Version-Update?p=407868#post407868
http://kanican.livejournal.com/tag/enmity%20testing%21
if you would be so kind as to read the links i provided i can put this in a language you can understand.
i am going to use the modifiers from 75 since he didn't test after cap raise but it will still illustrate the point you don't seem to get about healing for hate.
if you were to cure for 500 hp you would have gotten 2180 VE and 363.5 CE
very nice enmity numbers right? ok well "now" that same cure would net you 654 VE and 109 CE all for 88 mp
you could cast blank gaze 3 times and have mp left over (25 MP cost) and get 960 VE/CE and build more CE per spell than cure 4
and assuming by his model enmity modifiers for cure go down with higher lvls the real values are likely even smaller.
curing for hate is not worth your time/mp Very true, devalues at 99. Worse off as well SE adjusted cure enmity when they put in tanquil heart for mages.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 707
By Shiva.Eightball 2014-12-12 17:42:51
sry first 1 went wrong place gotta find it again.
http://kanican.livejournal.com/tag/enmity%20testing%21
if you would be so kind as to read the links i provided i can put this in a language you can understand.
i am going to use the modifiers from 75 since he didn't test after cap raise but it will still illustrate the point you don't seem to get about healing for hate.
if you were to cure for 500 hp you would have gotten 2180 VE and 363.5 CE
very nice enmity numbers right? ok well "now" that same cure would net you 654 VE and 109 CE all for 88 mp
you could cast blank gaze 3 times and have mp left over (25 MP cost) and get 960 VE/CE and build more CE per spell than cure 4
and assuming by his model enmity modifiers for cure go down with higher lvls the real values are likely even smaller.
curing for hate is not worth your time/mp if hate is capped it most certainly is, any pld worth their salt knows this. Any enmity+ action you take with capped hate if someone pulls hate gets it back even if its a cure I.
So will swinging your weapon, which comes with the added benefit of not being a waste of time
^^^^ this is my point exactly ^^^^
For any PLD out there who is able to consistently tank a mob, what kind of gear do you use and what kind of support do you get?
Support-wise, there's typically a THF TA Mandalic Stab or Rudra's Storm on me or a pack of RNGs Decoy-Shotting me. I get haste, though I'm medium priority in the party.
Gear-wise, I'm typically meleeing in this set (will sometimes toss in a Creed Baudrier):
ItemSet 330582
And switch to this whenever I use Provoke or Flash.
ItemSet 330583
I keep Crusade on myself and I try not to let my PLD JA overlap too much to keep some PLD buff consistently on. I use Sole Sushi. Oh, and I'm Tarutaru.
I ask because I'm losing hate on stuff like Divine Might v2 (consistently, though against some strong MNKs, WAR, and a whirlwind NIN, I'm no longer surprised) or even the KI battles (I gradually lose it to said NIN or mages, depending on the battle). Is it even possible to keep the hate, or do I need to resign myself to the role of "shit hits the fan, Aerro tanks while people recover" position? Any pointers are appreciated, even pointing me in other directions to make me better at this job.
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