The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On
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The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On
I don't think aeneas benefit from tp bonus offhand as much.
Well katriina is the one that ran the numbers so regardless of how much this or that is this or that they're absolutely wrong.
Afania said: » I don't think aeneas benefit from tp bonus offhand as much. But technically Aeneas MH + Centovente + Moonshade is 2750 TP, so you have "space" for 250TP overflow before TP is wasted. Given how well Rudra scales with TP I don't see Centovente being barely above other options for Aeneas MH. It's fine for it to be lower than other combinations, but 1100Dps differnece seems more than it should, on a hunch. Hey! Maybe I'm wrong. I just said we should doublecheck it, nothing more. Rudra is 5/10.19/13 at 1000/2000/3000 tp based on bg wiki info, so at 1000-2000 tp has bigger increase than 2000-3000.
I don't think that, or anything else, explains the huge difference.
Only thing I can think of that might have skewed the results is if Katriina used WAR's Warcry or SMN's Crystalline Blessing among the buffs. Those of course would greatly devaluate Centovente as an OH for Aeneas, but then again those buffs aren't really what I'd use for a test like this, honestly... Anyone can mind sharing the tp,evisceration,pirryc kleos, exenterator,rudra's strom set... i look a few pages back and didnt find anything...
If my intuition is right the new fSTR update greatly favors Pyrrhic Kleos and thus Terpsichore
Phoenix.Dabackpack said: » If my intuition is right the new fSTR update greatly favors Pyrrhic Kleos and thus Terpsichore Why you think it was fstr update? There's confirmed change, that 1str now adds 1 att. I don't think there is anything more related to STR. Even so, PK is the only WS with a STR mod, so it follows pretty naturally that it'll see a bigger boost from this update than the others in practice.
ScaevolaBahamut said: » Even so, PK is the only WS with a STR mod, so it follows pretty naturally that it'll see a bigger boost from this update than the others in practice. True but I think PK set has ~85 more Str so that's like 20 more attack, while on the other hand it has (depends on herculean augment) like 40 att less in the first place.
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Asura.Sechs said: » Kat, some friends made me notice the Aeneas/Centovente DPS (bit less than 6k) is suspiciosly low. It's ok for it to be lower than Twash/Cento, but ~1100 DPS lower sounds like a stretch. Can you doublecheck that all values were fine and re-test Twash/Cento vs Aeneas/Cento? Both R15 of course. Check the TPoverflow value as well. With the Aeneas/Cento setup you can't afford more than 250TP overflow or you're wasting damage. 250, while small, seems realistic though. I dunno, it just feels like something is wrong with Aeneas/cento that much below. It's barely above Aeneas/Twash and Aeneas/Sari, that can't be right? Hey Sechs, sorry; I'm on move constantly these days~
Madranta was the one that did the numbers, I just arranged them in a schedule for sorting purposes. I ran a test now on the spreadsheet provided by Madranta and: Twashtar/Centovente : 6727.830 Aeneas/Centovente: 6170.241 Twashtar leads by 8% Same buffs, both at 1k TP, PDL isn't accounted for, in JSE nor in Traits. You can follow this to see where the numbers came from: Also, one last note, I remember way back in DNC thread, there was a discussion [that involved Byrth] about "when" to WS on Rudra, and the "Sweet Spot" was between [1750-2000], beyond 2k the fTP declines by 2 points when it reaches 3k, compared to the 5 points from 1k-2k. Those numbers look much more in line.
7078 vs 5973 was too much for me to believe, almost. 6727 vs 6170 is still a big difference, but it's more realistic I'd say. Think Madranta skewed the results somehow by using some TP bonus buff (Warcry? Crystalline Blessing?). Someone please check my math, please.
Pyrrhic Kleos is 4 hits, fTP transfers. fTP is 1.75, or 1.95 with Fotia Belt and neck. Assuming no multiattack, and an off-hand hit, that's 9.75 if the off-hand hit is at the same fTP (not sure how the replication works exactly), or 8.8 if it's at 1.0. Centovente and Moonshade an Aeneas would give TP Bonus+1750, so a 1kTP Rudra's Storm would go off as though it had 2750 TP. That gives an fTP of 12.2975. If the off-hand hit is 1.95 fTP, then at an average 6.3 hits, including off-hand, Pyrrhic Kleos would reach 12.2975 effective http://fTP. If the off-hand is 1.0 fTP, then a total 5.79 main-hand hits plus the one offhand would be required to reach an effective 12.2975 (12.2975 - 1 = 11.2975, 11.2975 / 1.95 = 5.79). The first two hits on a multi-hit weapon skill can proc multiattack. With 18 TA and 23 DA, this would mean 2 + 2 * (1 + (2 * .18) + (.82 * .23), or 5.0972 + 1 offhand hits, on average, with Pyrrhic Kleos. If fTP replicates to the off-hand, this is 11.89 effect fTP (6.0972 * 1.95) which is equivalent to a 2605 TP Rudra's Storm, and if not, then it is 10.94, which is equivalent to a 2267 TP Rudra's Storm. This is before any multiplier from Terpischore, and ignoring Mythic Aftermath. And, since this takes Centovente, you are losing out on a significant portion of your white damage (comparing it to AG Twashter (it has 32% of Twashtar's DPS- and, if you're at accuracy floor offhand from losing out on 269 or 242 skill, 6.5% of its DPS). So, basically, for losing roughly 45% of your white damage to offhand Centovente with an Aeneas, you can pump out 38~46% larger Rudra's Storms. Except you lose out on damage if you have more than 250 TP when you WS, whereas you'd need to have 2250 TP ,Mainhanding Aeneas and not off-handing Centovente, before you'd need to worry about losing damage on Rudra's. You're also giving up any stats you might have on an offhand, like the DEX+50 on an AG Twashtar. Please explain to me how this is good on anything except, say, standing around and waiting for Tactician's Roll to get you to 1000~1250 TP, which would take, at a minimum, 48 seconds, so you can stab something in the back when you're not waiting on 60~90 second JA timers. Because in a Zerg where everyone is spamming WSes like mad, good luck chaining with anything close to semi-reliability. Phoenix.Dabackpack said: » If my intuition is right the new fSTR update greatly favors Pyrrhic Kleos and thus Terpsichore During my testing of Damage Limit+ I noticed no change to fSTR, at least not a raising of the maximum it gives. I did notice that the contribution STR makes to your Attack had changed. Which makes WSes that use Strength a bit better. *stares at Resolution* [edit]I was, however, testing Damage Limit+. I did a couple of calculations for the expected damage of certain weapons (thinking that, maybe, Damage Limit+ might do something with that, and I was very confused until I figured out what my numbers were saying), and didn't notice anything about it. Just that on one-hand 1 STR was worth 1 ATT, and on two-hand 3 STR were worth 4 ATT. Yeah I had erroneously assumed that the STR update changed fSTR, but it turns out it just changed the STR->Attack factor.
With the new Str update, will there be an updated DPS Sheet? I've been using the one from the OP Node; https://goo.gl/tk10gx and was just curious, as I'd like to make some optimal sets for scrubs and plebs like me who are recently returning.
Based on above it seems like Apex Bats are the preferred target for min/maxing, is that correct? How far off of new content are these bats? For example a VD Ambuscade, Dynamis(D), Omen NMs, etc? 1370Acc to cap on Apex Bats what type of Acc numbers are we looking for to be effective on the new content? Asura.Ivlilla said: » None is really suggesting Aeneas + Centovente, if anything Twashtar + Centovente, in which case you are getting 70 dex from Twahstar instead of 50 from sub hand. Also +10% Rudra damage, more acc and AM on Twashtar making up for white damage loss from offhanding Centovente. This let you not lose damage unless you overtp above 1750 and that combination is also extremely good for zerg with 1hr, where you want to do as much Climactic Rudra's as possible and with this combo all those Rudra's will be far stronger, than with anything else.
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SimonSes said: » Asura.Ivlilla said: » None is really suggesting Aeneas + Centovente, if anything Twashtar + Centovente, in which case you are getting 70 dex from Twahstar instead of 50 from sub hand. Also +10% Rudra damage, more acc and AM on Twashtar making up for white damage loss from offhanding Centovente. This let you not lose damage unless you overtp above 1750 and that combination is also extremely good for zerg with 1hr, where you want to do as much Climactic Rudra's as possible and with this combo all those Rudra's will be far stronger, than with anything else. Yeah, and with 3k tp Sekkanoki and grand pas you probably don't tp as much before the fight ends anyways. So I think people worry too much about white dmg lol. Afania said: » SimonSes said: » Yeah, and with 3k tp Sekkanoki and grand pas you probably don't tp as much before the fight ends anyways. So I think people worry too much about white dmg lol. Katarina actually suggested that ideal usage of 1hr in something like escha (wings and revit needed) would be no white damage at all, but it would probably require slight cheating by WSing without engaging (I know it's hardly a cheat for someone and more like QoL, but still). But yeah even without meds its Sekkanoki > climatic > Rudra > Rudra > Grand Pas > RF > Rudra > RF > Rudra > RF Rudra > Trance > Rudra or if you TP then instead of 2nd RF you do Climactic again, then RF > Rudra, then try to squeeze more Rudras before Climactic is gone. Either way it's massive WS damage with minimal white damage, unless fight is much longer than 30 sec of full out DDing. Asura.Cambion said: » With the new Str update, will there be an updated DPS Sheet? I've been using the one from the OP Node; https://goo.gl/tk10gx and was just curious, as I'd like to make some optimal sets for scrubs and plebs like me who are recently returning. Based on above it seems like Apex Bats are the preferred target for min/maxing, is that correct? How far off of new content are these bats? For example a VD Ambuscade, Dynamis(D), Omen NMs, etc? 1370Acc to cap on Apex Bats what type of Acc numbers are we looking for to be effective on the new content? I have a really dumb question. During maintenance I'm trying to clean up my Gearswap. Are we beyond the times of using Maculele bangles +1 for SkillChains? I noticed my GS will override my hand slot when a SkillChain is pending with these gloves and I'm assuming that's probably hurting my DPS.
Is it more likely that the Skillchain Bonus +11 loses out to the extra damage that would be gained from a pure WS piece like Horos +3 or Megahanada +2? Edit: Same Question for the Tiara +1 while Climactic Flourish is active. 25% is a lot of damage, so I assume this one is safe, but Adhemar Head / +1 is no slouch. Ramuh.Austar said: » which apex bats? because the level 130 ones only need 1121 for main and 1113 for offhand. Apex LVL136 is what I show in the DPS Sheets I've downloaded. Asura.Cambion said: » I have a really dumb question. During maintenance I'm trying to clean up my Gearswap. Are we beyond the times of using Maculele bangles +1 for SkillChains? I noticed my GS will override my hand slot when a SkillChain is pending with these gloves and I'm assuming that's probably hurting my DPS. Is it more likely that the Skillchain Bonus +11 loses out to the extra damage that would be gained from a pure WS piece like Horos +3 or Megahanada +2? Edit: Same Question for the Tiara +1 while Climactic Flourish is active. 25% is a lot of damage, so I assume this one is safe, but Adhemar Head / +1 is no slouch. Ramuh.Austar said: » which apex bats? because the level 130 ones only need 1121 for main and 1113 for offhand. Apex LVL136 is what I show in the DPS Sheets I've downloaded. You're correct to skip the Maculele Bangles for the reason you listed. The more damage you do, the greater your SC damage will be too. Maculele Tiara should definitely be used for Climactic as well! Looking forward to the Empy upgrade for that one :3
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SimonSes said: » Katarina actually suggested that ideal usage of 1hr in something like escha (wings and revit needed) would be no white damage at all, but it would probably require slight cheating by WSing without engaging (I know it's hardly a cheat for someone and more like QoL, but still). Nah, no need for any cheating, you can easily use these macros: Sneak Attack Macro:  Climactic Macro:  Just remove the /ja line for consecutive Rudras. The next version update is scheduled for early January.
The January version update brings with it some adjustments to several dragoon and dancer abilities, as well as the usual monthly adjustments to Ambuscade. :O Anybody recognizes the JA used in that screenshot? Or is it a new one? :O
Don't think DNC needs new JAs, but it's not like I'm gonna complain if we do get another lol Granted we already have so many CDs to press/stuff to do I'd probably be happier if they were to tweak the ones we have first... but hey, good news are good! Not new stuff "adjustments" the pic is healing or curing waltz is it not?
Quote: Nothing Groundbreaking Probably enmity/potency/cost adjustments.. DNC is already fully functional, nothing needs to be changed. Wow. I did not know /attackoff was a thing.
I'm assuming that's supposed to stop the auto attack before your SA goes off right? Asura.Sechs said: » Anybody recognizes the JA used in that screenshot? Or is it a new one? :O Don't think DNC needs new JAs, but it's not like I'm gonna complain if we do get another lol Granted we already have so many CDs to press/stuff to do I'd probably be happier if they were to tweak the ones we have first... but hey, good news are good! Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think it's waltz otherwise the character would be leaping... Contradance maybe? That one needs some tweak like cooldown reduction. Apart from that, if I'm not mistaken we had a conversation some time ago about how it would be good if they removed steps JA animation lock or maybe including the step animation effect into regular hits, no?
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