Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium

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Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium
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 Odin.Godofgods
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By Odin.Godofgods 2017-04-20 17:11:18  
Odin.Godofgods said: »
cant seem to recall today; what does pet dt/pdt cap out at for gear?
50% floating around in my head, but after looking at a possible set it jsut seems off if that were true since it would yield pet pdt -20% and pet dt-49%

Found what i was looking for. 87.5% its capped at.

fyi; this was the set i was looking at. Should be close or near the same as OP.
ItemSet 350582
Taeon all dt-4%
back dt-5%
weapon pdt-5/11%

totaling pet pdt-20% and pet dt-49%

Edit:
Fenrir.Sathicus said: »
Tal'iah +1 legs are generally a better option for legs.
I completely missed that. Same dt without great augmenting. Higher acc. Only thing its losing is pet regen+ which isnt that big a deal for acc.
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By clearlyamule 2017-04-20 19:14:21  
Fenrir.Sathicus said: »
There exist practically no real situations where you would be taking so much magic/breath damage and so little physical damage that would warrant that choice.
What about everytime you use bird jesus huh!?!

I more like it because large spike dmg tends to non physical but yes not counting non dt augments for kum to win on overall dmg reduction outside of jugs that have native physical reductions or shell on mob would have to have only about 36% of it's dmg coming from physical with that setup and similar holds true for handlers though pdt vs dt axe is a bit closer. And yeah best is pretty much always swapping for nukes
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2017-04-26 12:29:21  
clearlyamule said: »
Izizoeksi (5)/Kumbhakarna (4)
anwig (10)/shepards (2)/rimeice (1)/Enmerkar (3)
af+3 (10)/alluvion (4)/ Thurandaut +1 (4)
Pastoralist's (5)/Isa (3)/ alluvion (4), alluvion (4)


Couple details...

Maybe Wiki is off, but I don't see any pet -dt augment for kumbhakarna... I think wiki is off though. i never bothered trying to make -dt kumbha. even though....

Digirbalag augment can go up to 5% pet -dt
So, 60% pet -dt from gear
9% from stout servant
another 3% possible from vorseal in escha/reisenjima
for grand totla of 72% -dt possible

PDT can go up to 83% reduction

69/80 respectively, outside of escha/reisenjima
 Fenrir.Sathicus
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By Fenrir.Sathicus 2017-04-26 12:59:01  
DT-4 is possible on Kumbha. I have a number of them myself.
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By clearlyamule 2017-04-26 13:07:48  
Which wiki you looking at cause bg definitely shows dt but yeah reisin is definitely better if you have the patience I just already have those with high acc too. And well I had forgotten about it... though now I'm trying for a lucky DM aug on it

For that pdt though looks like you are just adding the 11 from magian but remember gotta factor in the dt axe it's replace so only gains 6 pdt and lose of 5 dt so using trial axe in your vorseal situation would be 67 dt 78 pdt or -1dt +3pdt for swapping earrings.

And looking back seems I totally borked some math somewhere when considering when which would win. Like really should've been obvious mistake. Using the extra dt you suggested and vorseal for max dt the max Digirbalag should win in terms of just DT anytime non physical dmg makes up 54.54% of the dmg the mob deals which makes some sense considering you are basically trading 5 mdt/bdt for 6 pdt
 Odin.Godofgods
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By Odin.Godofgods 2017-04-26 17:29:39  
Are magical ready moves effected by double atk/crit hit?
And can valorous gear have both a MAB augment and a MAcc together?

Fenrir.Sathicus said: »
DT-4 is possible on Kumbha. I have a number of them myself.
Iv made at least 6+ axes (more then one char) and so far iv never seen that aug. Would be nice tho.
 Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2017-04-26 17:35:08  
Odin.Godofgods said: »
Are magical ready moves effected by double atk/crit hit?
No.

Odin.Godofgods said: »
And can valorous gear have both a MAB augment and a MAcc together
Only with Dark Matter.
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 Odin.Godofgods
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By Odin.Godofgods 2017-04-26 17:41:45  
Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk said: »
Odin.Godofgods said: »
Are magical ready moves effected by double atk/crit hit?
No.
so there is rly no leaf stone augments that matter for a magical rdy skirmish axe.
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By clearlyamule 2017-04-26 17:42:24  
Odin.Godofgods said: »
Are magical ready moves effected by double atk/crit hit?
And can valorous gear have both a MAB augment and a MAcc together?
No purely magical attack is effected by DA/crit and iirc I don't think their are hybrid ready moves.


If by together as in taking up one slot so you can roll one of those stats again then not for pets since those are always separated. If you mean individual rolls for each both appearing on a piece probably assuming it works similar to what I've done on herc and just how the system is supposed to work

Though you might not be able to get high amounts on both. To note I was trying to make some auto nuking pieces with Herc gear I could never get both stats higher than 15 at the same time. It was also really weirdly biased towards macc being the higher one. Like if I got macc at all in any amount the potential MAB would never go past 15 but I could get 30 macc 15 mab which is kind of the opposite of what I wanted
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2017-04-27 12:55:57  
I am not just adding 11 pdt for astolfo. I properly subtracted the dt pieces which were swapped. I am following Falkirk's guide, (which is completely accurate here...)

I'm also swapping the 4% dt pieces (taeon/Tali'ah) with 5% -pdt Valorous pieces, also swapping rimeice earring for handler's earring +1. but it looks like I was off by 1. you can actually get up to 84% -pdt.

So when you go from max -dt to max -pdt, you drop 17% magic damage reduction, and pickup 12% physical damage reduction.

also looks like I was missing the pet damage taken augment for weapons on the bg wiki page... I looked thru it several times, but missed it. I also thought it would be on duskorb, but it appears that its in Leaforb
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By clearlyamule 2017-04-27 13:23:07  
Well kind of looked that way since numbers kind of worked that way and hadn't though of swapping 5 pdt for 4 dt. But yeah.

Numbers still a little off though. Seems you added the extra net pdt in right but missed 1 off the from bdt/mdt since 12 from taeon/taliah 5 from Digirbalag and then 1 from earring. So 18%bdt/mdt for net 12pdt%
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2017-04-27 14:33:30  
thats what I get for doing head math and multitasking instead of just writing it down.
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 Odin.Godofgods
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By Odin.Godofgods 2017-04-30 19:24:47  
For ready moves that vary with tp, is it tiered or just more is more? Is there a bonus to have 1000tp over say 800tp or just what the 200tp would
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-04-30 19:26:37  
Just like regular WS, should scale linearly with 1K, 2K, and 3K being anchor points.
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By clearlyamule 2017-04-30 19:39:19  
It's always possibly the anchor points are more like blu spells but generally assumed more like ws. It's of note that past 2k their is a lot less dmg gained for most if not all
 Odin.Godofgods
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By Odin.Godofgods 2017-04-30 19:45:08  
With the nukumi manoplas+1 giving a 600 to tp bonus and a skirmish axe giving 200 for a total of +800tp, curious if another axe with 200tp reaching a 1000to mark would be worth it. Or jsut sticking to a simpler artoki with pet atk/acc+50
 Quetzalcoatl.Beaztmaster
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By Quetzalcoatl.Beaztmaster 2017-04-30 20:51:30  
Good evening!

Just re-posting some old literature that got buried earlier in this thread that should be helpful~~

Dates are hyperlinked to the page in the thread so you can see more of the context of the conversation at the time if you'd like.

06 May 2015

Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk said: »
Shiva.Malthar said: »
Hello Falkirk,
There has been a rumor gong around that you've done some testing on the Aymur and found that it wasn't as good as originally thought.

Care to comment?

Sure. A friend of mine (who also has an Aymur) was doing an investigation into Sweeping Gouge and fTP stuff for Ready moves in general. He noticed something bizarre though - basically, wearing Aymur by itself (TP Bonus+1000) and spamming Ready moves was weaker than Anahera Tabar+Nukumi Manoplas+1 (TP Bonus+600).

You can easily test this yourself by using magical damage ready moves (for consistency) like Cursed Sphere against Wild Rabbits in West Ronfaure:

Aymur only - Cursed Sphere DMG = 4043
Nukumi Manoplas+1 (+Anahera Tabar) - Cursed Sphere DMG = 4094

The only difference in play is the amount of TP Bonus your pet has. So from this, and a variety of other tests, he surmised that whenever you execute a Ready command with TP < 1000, your pet's TP in the precast phase is hardcoded to be 1000.

Think of it as a holdover from the days when our pets were more like actual "monsters" - when SE abolished the minimum TP requirements, they actually just gave a behind-the-scenes boost to 1000 so they didn't have to rework their fTP formulas. This finding not only explains the strange TP Bonus issue, but also coincides with Ready move damage and buffs not increasing in potency/duration until your pet has TP > 1000.



Rage/Scissor Guard/Zealous Snort all have fixed durations until TP is > 1000. You get the picture.

So with that in mind, what does the complete TP spectrum look like from 0-3000?



For WAR pets with Fencer V, the window from 1000-2500 is where we can influence the resulting damage by adding TP bonus. And for non-WARs like the boar pet it looks like this:



Because of the rate at which we spam Ready moves, our TP amount tends to be ~250 or less, so we're relying almost exclusively on TP Bonus to increase our damage in that regard (just set aside things like Attack etc for now).

Most BSTs can use Alluvion Axe x 2 with TP Bonus+200 augment, plus Nukumi Manoplas+1 for a total of TP Bonus+1000. So with a WAR pet they're already at 2500 effective TP when spamming Razor Fangs or whatever. And since TP potency starts to scale poorly beyond 2000 TP (less than 1/3rd as potent from that point onward), it isn't a huge deal that they can't get much further at this time.

Now, for you and I, when we use Aymur in our precast we actually aren't benefiting at all from the initial 500 TP bonus because after the precast is over our pet's TP is hardcoded to be 1000 anyway. So what we really have is a 500 TP midcast from Aymur + a 200 TP Bonus Alluvion Axe offhand + 600 Nukumi+1 hands. We are at an advantage by 300 TP, and it certainly helps a bit, but it's unfortunately past the threshold where TP Bonus is most attractive. We're spamming 2800 effective TP Razor Fangs, and we get a large boost from Pet:Attack+80 simultaneously (Pet:Attack+128 for Randy), but it's not quite as large of a difference as previously thought.

You would be able to take advantage of Aymur's precast TP Bonus if your pet could earn more than 500 TP in the melee phase before executing your next Ready move though (perhaps if you couldn't offhand Charmer's Merlin for some reason? Or using 3-charge Ready moves? I dunno).

Sorry for the lengthy explanation, I hope that was clear.

tl;dr: Aymur is still the best, but because of the way Ready moves are calculated, the gap between a Mythic BST and a regular BST isn't as wide as you might think.



05 July 2015

Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk said: »
Felgarr said: »
When do I want to use BST AF3 Reforged 119 hands (for TP Bonus)?

nukumi manoplas +1 are best-in-slot for all physical Ready moves up until your pet's effective TP from traits/bonuses reaches 3000.




They're especially important for non-WAR pets to reach that sweet 2000 TP threshold:


Basically, you wouldn't use them when Unleash is active, or if you somehow earned enough TP in-between Ready moves to cap with just Fencer/Axes.

Felgarr said: »
When do I want to use Acro Gauntlets with some Pet: MAB/M.Acc augments?

The effectiveness of TP (for 'Damage varies with TP' attacks) is greatly diminished over 2000 TP (less than ~1/3rd potency compared to the 1000-2000 TP range).

So for magical attacks, anytime you're hovering around or above 2000 TP you should use Pet:MAB hands instead.




Did a quick comparison to illustrate this.

Pet: TP Bonus vs Pet: MAB
(1900 effective TP, using Fireball on Wild Rabbits)
Nukumi Manoplas +1: 3304 damage
Skirmish Hands w/Pet:MAB+25: 3511 damage

Now let's consider a BST who hasn't augmented their Skirmish Axes yet - they should be using Nukumi Manoplas +1 instead of Pet:MAB hands because they're in the middle of that sweet 1000-2000 TP range.

(1500 effective TP Fireball)
Skirmish Hands w/Pet:MAB+25: 2861 damage
Nukumi Manoplas +1: 3137 damage

Felgarr said: »
Is it possible to use AF3 hands and Acro guantlets at the same time for the Lizard pet? Or receive the effect of TP Bonus and Pet:M.Acc//MAB? (When I say "same time", I mean through swapping, of course).

Pet: TP Bonus and Pet: MAB/M.Acc are both processed during Pet midcast which means you can't gain the benefits of both at the same time.



09 January 2016

Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk said: »
Bahamut.Thundro said: »
Also how much of a difference do TP Bonus Axes make on WS? I am currently using 2 Skullrender for Physical and Deacon/Nibiru for Magical but the numbers are not awesome.

The influence of TP Bonus was discussed a bit here and here, but we didn't go into many specifics because the benefits vary based on:

1. Pet's Job (WAR, non-WAR)
2. Pet's current TP
3. The Ready move you're interested in

All pet attacks (with damage that varies based on TP) have the same relationship that basically looks like this:


So let's say you're spamming Razor Fang or Tegmina Buffet under normal conditions (using charges as they become available, minimal melee rounds so TP remains under 1000 for each Ready move).




Using these numbers as a reference, the difference would be (with 20/20 Ready Job Points):

Razor Fang (2100 TP): ~18197 dmg
Razor Fang (2500 TP): ~19306 dmg

Tegmina Buffet (2100 TP): ~29830 dmg
Tegmina Buffet (2500 TP): ~31377 dmg

So with the addition of TP Bonus +400, you've given yourself Ready damage +5% in this circumstance.

For non-WAR pets (Boar, Mandragora, Beetle, etc) the TP Bonus is even more valuable (in the ballpark of at least Ready damage +15%), so getting at least one pair of Skirmish Axes is highly recommended.



Anyway, having said all that, TP Bonus won't make or break your pet's Ready DPS.

Pet Stats in Order of Importance:
(for Physical Ready moves)

1. Pet: Accuracy
2. Pet: Attack
3. Pet: TP Bonus
4. Pet: Double Attack

Assuming your pet's accuracy is already decent, you need to do everything you can to raise your pet's attack or lower the enemy's defense. I'm sure you already know what that entails so I won't bother listing it all out, but that's what it all boils down to for Pet DPS. Make your enemy as defenseless as a Wild Rabbit in East Ronfaure and then throw some Pet: TP Bonus on top to maximize your damage output.

Good luck!
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 Odin.Godofgods
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By Odin.Godofgods 2017-04-30 21:33:31  
thats some good info. Props to those that tested and analyzed all that. That must taken a lot of time and effort to get all that.

Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk said: »
Make your enemy as defenseless as a Wild Rabbit in East Ronfaure
im suddenly recalling some of the times iv been wiped out by a rabbit...
 Shiva.Xenorex
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By Shiva.Xenorex 2017-05-02 13:06:19  
I recall an old ffxi quote that said something to the effect... no matter how bad *** you are in this game, there is always a bunny rabbit somewhere that can kill you.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2017-05-10 10:08:06  
The update to Nukumi Quijotes +1 text makes me feel like we didn't properly test them... (;.;)

bg-wiki looks correct.. I wonder if I simply forgot when I switched to other -dt legs long ago. I was always thinking it was only a 2% improvement in -dt

... but I think I'm just forgetting.
 Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2017-05-10 16:16:20  
Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
The update to Nukumi Quijotes +1 text makes me feel like we didn't properly test them... (;.;)

bg-wiki looks correct.. I wonder if I simply forgot when I switched to other -dt legs long ago. I was always thinking it was only a 2% improvement in -dt

... but I think I'm just forgetting.

Your testing was good. This was simply a text update to make the Pet:DT-X% effect less perplexing:


Before: Stout Servant +2 = Pet:DT-4%
Now: Stout Servant +4 = Pet:DT-4%
 Shiva.Malthar
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By Shiva.Malthar 2017-05-10 18:48:27  
Wait... They nerfed stout servant?!?!?
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By clearlyamule 2017-05-10 20:03:05  
Shiva.Malthar said: »
Wait... They nerfed stout servant?!?!?
No. They merely changed the text on those legs. They do the same thing but now I suppose it's more clear that they give ~4% because it says 4 instead of the ~2 per 1 stout servant that we get from traits. Similar to how they've done similar on other traits except they usually actually change it to say percent as well so it's not confusing
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2017-05-13 18:50:11  

Updated the front page with average physical Ready damage at capped attack ratio and 20/20 Ready Damage+ job points:


WARRIOR PETS:
ReadyCharge
Cost
1540 TP 2000 TP 3000 TP Notes
Frogkick1557555755575Amount of DEF ignored varies with TP
Whirl Claws1717371737173Area of effect varies with TP
Somersault185461109412757-
Foot Kick1876387638763Critical Hit Rate varies with TP
Sickle Slash1876387638763Critical Hit Rate varies with TP
Claw Cyclone1112011462116661Conal AoE
Cyclotail1112011462116661Radial AoE (10 yalms)
Nimble Snap1137101793320718-
Tail Blow1137101793320718Additional effect: Stun
Blockhead1137101793320718-
Brain Crush1137101793320718Additional effect: Silence
Sensilla Blades1137101793320718Conal AoE
Lamb Chop1137101793320718-
Sheep Charge1137101793320718-
Recoil Dive1137101793320718Conal AoE
Razor Fang1137101793320718-
Scythe Tail1137101793320718Additional effect: Stun
Ripper Fang1137101793320718-
Mandibular Bite1137101793320718-
Queasyshroom2103411034110341Additional effect: Poison
Numbshroom2103411034110341Additional effect: Paralysis
Shakeshroom2103411034110341Additional effect: Disease
Swooping Frenzy2143461434614346Conal AoE, Duration varies with TP
Tegmina Buffet2224022924233322Radial AoE (6 yalms)


NON-WARRIOR PETS:
ReadyCharge
Cost
1040 TP 2000 TP 3000 TP Notes
Grapple14958935210778Conal AoE
Double Claw157941109412757-
Spinning Top166211251614191Radial AoE (10 yalms)
Leaf Dagger169261360815724Additional effect: Poison
Wild Oats179921569018709Additional effect: VIT Down
Head Butt179921569018709-
Big Scissors1876387638763Critical Hit Rate varies with TP
Power Attack1876387638763Critical Hit Rate varies with TP
Spiral Spin1876387638763Duration of effect varies with TP
Rhino Attack187631793320718-
Sudden Lunge187631793320718Additional effect: Stun




Multi-hit Ready Moves:

WARRIOR PETS:
ReadyCharge
Cost
1540 TP 2000 TP 3000 TP Notes
Tickling Tendrils1337242204781Hits 5 times, Additional effect: Stun
Pentapeck3478147814781Hits 5 times, Duration of effect varies with TP
Chomp Rush3743474347434Hits 3 times, Duration of effect varies with TP


NON-WARRIOR PETS:
ReadyCharge
Cost
1040 TP 2000 TP 3000 TP Notes
Pecking Flurry1287750755781Hits 4 times
Sweeping Gouge14956936010749Hits 2 times, Conal AoE, DEF-25%
Wing Slap2244242104718Hits 5 times, Additional effect: Stun
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By clearlyamule 2017-05-13 19:07:21  
Yay was kind of bugging me on the ones that were different/off lol.

Something interesting to note is the multihits will all do pretty dang close to the same dmg if all their hits +1 DA connect at 3k tp.
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By Felgarr 2017-05-13 19:18:49  
What does capped attack ratio mean?
Why are TP moves damaged measured at 1049 or 1540 TP instead if starting at 1000 TP?

Sorry if this was explained earlier.
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By clearlyamule 2017-05-13 19:51:26  
The ratio of attack to def used in calculating physical damage has a cap. He's showing what the dmg will be at that cap to give an idea of what max dmg should be.

bst gifts give pets 40 tp bonus. War pets have fencer giving them another 500
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 Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2017-05-13 21:11:44  

Addendum: since WAR pets have Critical Attack Bonus trait...

ReadyCharge
Cost
Avg. DamageAvg. Critical Damage
Foot Kick187639464
Sickle Slash187639464
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By Shiva.Larrymc 2017-05-26 09:56:50  
It is not often that SE releases new significant food items.
Marine Stewpot is one of them.
HP+90 Accuracy+90 Ranged Accuracy+90 Magic Accuracy+90 Pet: Accuracy+70 Ranged Accuracy+70 Magic Accuracy+70

For comparison, Pear Crepe gives a max of 45 m.acc to master.
Rolanbery Daikfuku gives a max of 15 m.acc to pet.

Lets even compare to Sublime Sushi+1
HP+45 MP+25 STR+7 DEX+8 MND-4 CHR+7 Accuracy+11% (Max. 105) Ranged Accuracy+11% (Max. 105) "Resist Sleep"+2

This is new best cleave food for magical AoE for pets. Best mage m.acc food. Best food where you need both m.acc and acc (for blu). And I hear that it works on trusts too. SE's way of saying they nerfed geo a little to much - here is some of your m.acc back?
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2017-06-17 08:59:15  
BST DPS Spreadsheet

Its NOT perfect. However, I have corrected several errors in Motenten's posted spreadsheet. I've also added most, if not all relevant gear for the current game.

I'd appreciate if someone lets me know of mistakes or things missing. Feel free to send me a corrected spreadsheet.

I hope this is helpful to the BST community.
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