Anna Ruthven said: »
Knock off the bickering and the pissing contests or I'm going to simply start removing people from the thread.
Your face!
Dev Tracker - News, Discussions
|
Dev Tracker - news, discussions
Your face! Just give the players who had AG before the coming update a different color so everyone can still acknowledge their efforts. Or even the same color but with strobe effects and a disco ball.
[+]
I want to believe that they KNOW the original afterglow was a big requirement. I want to believe that they will adjust the requirement for people who have obtained it previously in a fair tanaka balanced manner.
My point from the start (that I've said in several reiterations) is that it's way way way too soon to get upset and overly emotional. It's going to be comical in many MANY ways when it pans out fairly for everyone. I'll settle for my own theme song when I enter a zone.
Clinpachi said: » I want to believe that they KNOW the original afterglow was a big requirement. I want to believe that they will adjust the requirement for people who have obtained it previously in a fair tanaka balanced manner. I'd like to believe that as well, but they've shown pretty clearly that they don't understand the value of trial completion at all. Look at what ilvl did to RME's and how lackluster most of them still were after they were given ilvl versions. Afterglow by itself was always more about accomplishment than what they offered. So, they've already kind of crapped on that.
[+]
I think the biggest problem with understanding the value of an afterglow is that the precedence and achievement is set by the player base.
Most. Please god emphases on MOST. Most of the time they tell us "no" we can't have XYZ feature or "thing" in the game is probably for the best. It's like a parent telling you no because you don't know any better (when you actually don't). While there IS an economical factor to afterglow, the value is only what the player base makes it to be. Now whether or not Square Enix agrees with what the community came up with as a whole is where things probably start to get ugly. Just because you paid 1.5 billion gil for an afterglow doesn't mean it's worth that much. It's probably that exact point where feelings get hurt with certain people. Depreciation in value. Clinpachi said: » Just because you paid 1.5 billion gil for an afterglow doesn't mean it's worth that much. It's probably that exact point where feelings get hurt with certain people. I just want to make one point about economics and I'll drop the issue entirely. Gil prices are a function of what a person's time is worth. The afterglow items aren't necessarily THAT rare, but they require at least a few characters to farm in any quantity. Dross/cinder pretty easily requiring the most to be economical to farm. It's a very standard principle of economics, the price is what the market will bear, if cinders are going for 1.5M, that's what they're worth. It's not JUST some arbitrary number players came up with, it's economics. For a lot of people, just the gil/time conversion is a MASSIVE investment, far more than the simple grind of weaponskill trials or getting 20 groups together to go kill some hard boss enough times to get their drop. If you ask me, just the determination to finish a crazy AG trial after building and upgrading a weapon should carry some weight with the game developer when they design new content. The people who build those kinds of weapons are loyal customers, and you never win by giving a hearty F-U to your loyal customers.
[+]
SE didn't even announce what the upgrade requirements for RME's are, so there's no reason to get mad about it, yet. For all we know the requirements for non-AG weapons could require people to kill all the Escha & Reisenjima NMs without a brew, while the AG weapons could bypass this. This requirement alone would probably prevent 90% or more of the player base from being able to upgrade a non-AG weapon, so AG's wouldn't become too common.
Obviously, I could be completely wrong on what the upgrade requirements will be, but until we know more, there's no reason to be upset about what could happen. Knowing SE, they could make the upgrade paths for both AG & non-AG weapons super easy OR super tough. I guess we'll find out in a couple of months.
[+]
Jassik said: » Clinpachi said: » Just because you paid 1.5 billion gil for an afterglow doesn't mean it's worth that much. It's probably that exact point where feelings get hurt with certain people. I just want to make one point about economics and I'll drop the issue entirely. Gil prices are a function of what a person's time is worth. The afterglow items aren't necessarily THAT rare, but they require at least a few characters to farm in any quantity. Dross/cinder pretty easily requiring the most to be economical to farm. It's a very standard principle of economics, the price is what the market will bear, if cinders are going for 1.5M, that's what they're worth. It's not JUST some arbitrary number players came up with, it's economics. For a lot of people, just the gil/time conversion is a MASSIVE investment, far more than the simple grind of weaponskill trials or getting 20 groups together to go kill some hard boss enough times to get their drop. If you ask me, just the determination to finish a crazy AG trial after building and upgrading a weapon should carry some weight with the game developer when they design new content. The people who build those kinds of weapons are loyal customers, and you never win by giving a hearty F-U to your loyal customers. I actually agree with almost everything 100%. Part of what probably happened is that sometimes when game developers design something and release it into the wild, the response and way people treat something go way beyond what was originally expected. A good example is their perception of what they wanted Ninja to be in this game versus what people actually did with it. The game has lacked proper direction and focus since Tanaka left and it's likely that certain things that should have been adjusted fell between the cracks. We will never know for sure though. I agree with the economics portion entirely though. I didn't just make the 1.5 billion up either I think that was the figure I came up with when adding briefly. The biggest takeaway that should be common knowledge by now is that any item with extreme rarity will eventually be phased in and adjusted so more people can get it easier. We are at a standstill in game development so we are now hitting the ceiling. We are now able to obtain almost any rare item in the game with less time it previously took. The only difference now is that we have nothing super new to jump to. Lakshmi.Kingofbastok said: » SE didn't even announce what the upgrade requirements for RME's are, so there's no reason to get mad about it, yet. For all we know the requirements for non-AG weapons could require people to kill all the Escha & Reisenjima NMs without a brew, while the AG weapons could bypass this. This requirement alone would probably prevent 90% or more of the player base from being able to upgrade a non-AG weapon, so AG's wouldn't become too common. Obviously, I could be completely wrong on what the upgrade requirements will be, but until we know more, there's no reason to be upset about what could happen. Knowing SE, they could make the upgrade paths for both AG & non-AG weapons super easy OR super tough. I guess we'll find out in a couple of months. The point being that if the final weapon doesn't reflect the work of obtaining an AG in the first place, even if it's as cosmetic and non-functional as most of the AG effects are, they've already crapped on AG owners. The difficulty difference between AG and non-AG base weapons would have be basically as large as the AG process itself. That's my thoughts as a non-AG owner who doesn't even have an active account.
[+]
My thoughts exactly in addition to the fact that I think everyone having afterglow will look stupid but that's just cosmetic reasons lol
The fact that the final weapon itself doesn't reflect the work put into it actually makes me think it was supposed to be something more but it got swept under the rug.
To be honest it looks like we almost saw more ToAU and Tatarus zones related to Pandemonium Warden. We will never know what internally happened and caused a shift in direction, but I'd bet money that the direction of RME got deviated. Shame it took all the way to February 2016 to fix lol. Now that I think about it, the addition of ilvl equipment is probably what caused them to scratch their heads and push it off for awhile. I don't think anyone saw that coming. I'm speculating it will require 100k merit points for relics/empys, 500 job points(and master title) for mythic/ergon. Previous AG owners have a 50% reduction.
Draylo said: » My thoughts exactly in addition to the fact that I think everyone having afterglow will look stupid but that's just cosmetic reasons lol "Hey SE, why can't you just transform afterglows into a KI when you complete the quest with an afterglowed weapon? And then those without the afterglowed weapon only get the upgraded weapon, but not the effect?"
"PS2 limitations."
[+]
Clinpachi said: » I mean out of curiosity, what would it ACTUALLY take to make you happy with this situation? Taking away all REM's from anyone who doesn't have the AG version, or making it so that the new stats ONLY apply to those who had AG before the update and that nobody else got them. These people are operating on an exclusivity mindset, they only see value in something if it's exclusive to themselves. If mere "commoners" get the same shiny toy then they immediately need something else to elevate themselves above the unwashed. It's like I said earlier, they are using virtual achievements to substitute for self esteem. Instead of accomplishing something of value in real life, they instead use this super exclusive rare item in a fantasy MMO as a source of self validation. The moment that item is no longer exclusive or rare that self validation vaporizes and they are left in the same situation they started in. Honestly they need to delete their accounts, put down all video games and go do something else in real life. Join clubs, take up a challenging hobby, learn a craft of skill, something that has a meaningful impact on their lives and creates real life long validation instead of seeking it in a video game.
[+]
my epeen is bigger than yall.
Asura.Saevel said: » Clinpachi said: » I mean out of curiosity, what would it ACTUALLY take to make you happy with this situation? Taking away all REM's from anyone who doesn't have the AG version, or making it so that the new stats ONLY apply to those who had AG before the update and that nobody else got them. These people are operating on an exclusivity mindset, they only see value in something if it's exclusive to themselves. If mere "commoners" get the same shiny toy then they immediately need something else to elevate themselves above the unwashed. It's like I said earlier, they are using virtual achievements to substitute for self esteem. Instead of accomplishing something of value in real life, they instead use this super exclusive rare item in a fantasy MMO as a source of self validation. The moment that item is no longer exclusive or rare that self validation vaporizes and they are left in the same situation they started in. Honestly they need to delete their accounts, put down all video games and go do something else in real life. Join clubs, take up a challenging hobby, learn a craft of skill, something that has a meaningful impact on their lives and creates real life long validation instead of seeking it in a video game. Uh, no. People are quite capable of accomplishing things in game and IRL. You stating what you just did makes me wonder about you though.
[+]
Clinpachi said: » To be honest it looks like we almost saw more ToAU and Tatarus zones related to Pandemonium Warden. Saw the pics of the Tartarus/SoA zones in the digest, but what's this about Pandemonium Warden? Sadly people like this vote for trump and Clinton
Anna Ruthven said: » Knock off the bickering and the pissing contests or I'm going to simply start removing people from the thread. Lol what? Relevant discussion was happening. Even if it was petty special snowflake stuff, it's relevant considering the subject matter. But hey, thanks for your input though. Jassik said: » Clinpachi said: » Just because you paid 1.5 billion gil for an afterglow doesn't mean it's worth that much. It's probably that exact point where feelings get hurt with certain people. I just want to make one point about economics and I'll drop the issue entirely. Gil prices are a function of what a person's time is worth. The afterglow items aren't necessarily THAT rare, but they require at least a few characters to farm in any quantity. Dross/cinder pretty easily requiring the most to be economical to farm. It's a very standard principle of economics, the price is what the market will bear, if cinders are going for 1.5M, that's what they're worth. It's not JUST some arbitrary number players came up with, it's economics. For a lot of people, just the gil/time conversion is a MASSIVE investment, far more than the simple grind of weaponskill trials or getting 20 groups together to go kill some hard boss enough times to get their drop. If you ask me, just the determination to finish a crazy AG trial after building and upgrading a weapon should carry some weight with the game developer when they design new content. The people who build those kinds of weapons are loyal customers, and you never win by giving a hearty F-U to your loyal customers. While I agree with most of the things said here, I'm also wondering if SE takes in to account the duped items/weapons which made it past the last big banhammer. Or previous exploits, when considering the value (to SE) of an afterglow. "Relevant" does not always translate to "productive" or "worthwhile". The past few pages have mostly been a sad mix of entitlement, superiority complexes, and rose-tinted glasses. I keep checking in to see if there's any new dev posts and instead I keep remembering why I don't bother keeping up with the forums.
[+]
Then I suppose the word "discussions" should be omitted from the title for you?
I agree that the entitlement is strong with a select few, but what would you expect? It's like when RME's were first eclipsed by plasm weapons. Edit: I don't care for the superiority or rose-tinted glasses either, but it is somewhat interesting to read posts from those players' perspectives, and maybe that's because I don't have an afterglow. /shrug. It most likely is, you can already see the animosity in multiple threads. People with it are perceived as cheaters, self-entitled losers who are getting their just rewards by everyone getting it lol. Considering less than 5%? of the population has it, its like a hate bandwagon. Pretty petty but it's expected from an online community. I'm already over it, but I hope there's a filter for the glow because I'll be turning that off ASAP. What is more concerning is something was mentioned about random augments on the REMs? That will be interesting lol.
[+]
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/49509-Freshly-Picked-Vana-diel-23-Digest?p=568660#post568660
Quote: Freshly Picked Vana'diel 23 Digest Greetings, To coincide with the December version update, Producer Akihiko Matsui held another "Freshly Picked Vana'diel" to go over some of the new content and discuss other topics pertinent to adventuring. The following is a digest of what was discussed. Quote: Hello, everyone. Matsui here. This time around for Freshly Picked Vana'diel we tried incorporating some new aspects and segments into the mix, so I hope you enjoy the new content. YouTube Video Placeholder Table of Contents Aeonic Weapons Geas Fete Additions and Adjustments Unity Concord Equipment Adjustments Emote Additions Directly Picked Vana’diel What if Vana’diel… Campaign and Event Announcements Conclusion
[+]
Quote: The development team is aware of the desire for ways to make accuracy more manageable; however, concerning end game battle content, the balancing is done in a way that requires the use of enhancement spells and abilities for both front line and back line jobs. With this said, it would be difficult to make adjustments so that it would be possible to fight without the aid of support jobs. Additionally, we recently introduced new NMs to Reisenjima, so we have no plans to make adjustments at the moment. Pantafernando said: » The development team is aware of the desire for ways to make accuracy more manageable; however, concerning end game battle content, the balancing is done in a way that requires the use of enhancement spells and abilities for both front line and back line jobs. With this said, it would be difficult to make adjustments so that it would be possible to fight without the aid of support jobs. Additionally, we recently introduced new NMs to Reisenjima, so we have no plans to make adjustments at the moment. I guess people beating incursion year ago made them aware how op Idris are, and now all nm has crazy high stat. |
All FFXIV and FFXI content and images © 2002-2024 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD.
FINAL FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.