The 6th Ministry's Secret: A Summoner's Guide (v2)

Yes it's a balancing act between the two, but to noticeably drift from the .35/.55 values you need to skew pretty ***' hard one way or the other, and that usually involves gimping your gear, though AM3 counts.

I have a Nirvana though, so is it not worth it since I have one?

TBH you can use it on double hit bp with AM and make it get an extra hit, but its unlikely that you will want to do that, however as has been said before in some VERY specific situations jse + relic +3 body win over nirvana, If you don't find your self in battlefields where you can not prebuff often, I wouldn't worry about getting the jse or +3 relic body. But they are not that expensive so if you need it, get it.

You already have the expensive bit out of the way.

While I am building Nirv, in the mean time... For Flaming Crush, buy a nq Was (and sell later when finish Nirv) or keep using my pseudo hybrid Kereunos with relevant stats being pet: mab+100, atk+20 and BP dmg +7?

I'm pretty sure the Keraunos will be better, but I haven't actually tested it or seen any testing. If you do end up buying it, let us know how it measures up please!

I've seen it mentioned several times now but I don't see how Gridarvor can ever possibly beat Nirvana.

I think they're talking about Nirvana with AM down.
With AM3 up of course there's hardly any real challenge lol.

If Accuracy is important and AM3 is down, then yes Gridarvor can beat Nirvana on stuff like Predator Claws and Volt Strike.
Gridarvor is kinda meh for BPs like Magic ones or Flaming Crush, for instance.

Yeah I was assuming no AM3 and still can't see it, in practice anyway. There's generally better ways of gaining 23 accuracy. You're right though, technically such a situation is possible.

Problem is: I'm not sure accuracy is what they were talking about because they also talked about dropping AF+3 body for Relic+3 body in the same scenario. So they'd actually be losing accuracy overall. I'm confused.

For instance the accuracy that you would lose by dropping AF1+3 body for AF2+3 body "compensated" if you Mainhand a Gridarvor in place of Nirvana.

Simple example of course, but you can think of many other similar ones.
Using Pet Att Food instead of mixed or Acc-ony food, etc etc.

Either way, be Gridarvor the winner or the loser, the difference with Nirvana (for TP-carrying Phys BPs with AM3 down) is so small it's hardly worth discussing or, even worse, "demanding" a Nirvana for content X.
I think it's good that people start learning this, instead of mindlessly demanding Nirvana for their groups and then turning down a Gridarvor SMN who, as far as we know, could have better gear and do more dmg than that other noob who owns a Nirvana and nothing else.
Same old story, I know, but it's good if this sort of information spreads among players, imo.

This. Especially for Omen, Ambuscade, which is en vogue right now... where prebuffing AM is impossible or impractical.

I dont see shouts demanding nirvanas for content here in rag really, i think the oboro weapon maxed is good enough if you just wanna do things like XX aeonics and ditch smn or have smn "ready" in case its good for an ambuscade XX month.

But when you gear to play it for a main job or at least semi-main, you want a nirvana because that am3 is crack lol and those that dont know how to get tp, get a twilight cloak and abuse it.

It's still a bad trade by every measure I can come up with.

For example I don't think there's any scenario where you'd gain more from swapping accuracy food to attack food than you would from swapping Gridarvor to Nirvana.

I get that you're trying to make a point that the difference between non-AM3 Nirvana and Gridarvor is not huge, and you're right it's not, I think it should be about a 10% damage increase on average which isn't much. But talking about how there are situations where Gridarvor could *beat* Nirvana is not the way to go about that, because as best I can tell, there are no such situations. There's nothing in the game right now that requires SOOOO much accuracy, that I run out of better ways to get it than by dropping Nirvana for Gridarvor. I dunno maybe I'm missing something obvious but I don't see it.

I dunno perg, ask Comeatmebro. I seem to recall he posted some numbers about a small bunch of situations where gridarvor can be slightly ahead of non-am3 nirvana, for stuff like volt strike only of course.

I doubt its a big difference and even if you're right and Comeatmebro was wrong, I doubt the difference is as big as 10%.
Really whichever way you prefer to look at the scenario (win or lose) I think we're talking about much closer numbers than 10%

Well just looking at dropping 15% Pet:DA in order to gain 40% BP Dmg, it's a 9.517% damage increase with the rest of the gear being ideal. That's very simple math.

That doesn't compare the slight accuracy loss, and slight increase to all other stats from Nirvana. But those shouldn't add up to much difference if you're gearing right, and if anything I suspect they would tilt it further in Nirvana's favor. Capping accuracy with Nirvana isn't hard on anything that exists today.

Ultimately I doubt anyone with well-rounded gear would see less than an 8% gain swapping Gridarvor to Nirvana.

What am I missing about this statement?

Occult acumen builds to get a lot of tp from impact, I guess.

How does Occult acumen apply to SMN? Plz tell me ppl aren't subbing /drk for acumen I?

Bingo, Impact has a huge MP cost, so it can be abused for TP gain. Supposedly a good build can get you over 1k TP per cast.


You don't need the job traits to utilize it, it's based on stats on gear and also modified by StoreTP.

Plz explain. How are you getting the job trait, without the job trait? Treasure Hunter is a job trait, but the only way I'm going to utilize it is if I /thf or wear some type of gear that adds the trait to non-native jobs. Are you saying you'd have to be wearing Oneiros Rope for this build to work? Or that casting Impact on any job still gains you tp, but jobs with Occult Omen simply get a bonus?

--edit-- Just checked and there's more gear than I originally knew about that gives this trait. Pretty interesting, genuinely did not know this was a thing.

Summoner has zero natural occult accumen, the job traits other jobs have don't 'unlock' it, it just gives you a set amount.

Basically use impact when you cant melee but want to have am3 or if you just lazy and dont wanna melee at all, a combination of of occult acumen + sTP on midcast should give 1k+ tp on cast or more, the only drawback is the 2 min cooldown which u can reduce keeping hastega 2 but still long recast.

On that note, anyone have any quality Impact sets they can share?

ItemSet 360387

I'm assuming as a SMN casting Impact you'd want as much MACC as possible while getting some Occult Acumen. Merlinic hands / feet can get +10 Occult Acumen. Campestres's can slap Store TP +10 on what would otherwise be an idle / DT / "pet engaged dt or atk but not a BP" cape .

Edit: Obvious weapons locked Derpity derp. Thanks Tarowyn ^^: Also changed to Store TP options.

Since it's only for TP gain you actually don't need to care about MACC at all. So every slot should be either occult or store tp if available.
Edit: Haste is probably actually valuable for recast as well since cloak is non ilvl

Also, since it's for nirvana AM purposes, swapping weapon is probably counterproductive.

Myrkr on demand.

Was sleeping yesterday when he requested a set and yes, this one look very good, impact all the things!

I mean if you're going to run in to make a skillchain, might as well just stay in to get TP the old-fashioned way. YOLO!

For anyone curious, the new earring (Kyrene) is about equal to Gelos Earring plus the extra accuracy if Nirvana AM3 is not up. With AM3 up, it's a slightly more noticeable loss in damage (-0.5%) but the accuracy could still make up for it pretty easily.

Actually in all the scenarios I ran, it came out just slightly behind Gelos, pretty much always less than a 1% damage loss. So if you need accuracy at all, this is a great way to get it.

Not worth the 25mil ppl asking for it currently though... A few mils at most I would say.

Darn, I had kind of assumed it would be Ex... sad that people are selling it already. I agree, 25m seems kind of ridiculous.