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 Siren.Lordgrim
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2016-08-23 15:02:15  
Drama Torama said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Why don't you pester the government to enforce those laws but you sure seem eager to whine about illegals being here and not paying income taxes!

The reason is simple: proper enforcement is incredibly expensive and manpower intensive. The options are:

1) Quadruple the budget for this kind of thing
- GOP won't do it because you'd have to raise taxes
- Democrats won't do it because they have other priorities for that tax money

2) Make the penalties for hiring illegals so steep that the math never works out in favor of doing it (seven figure fines, mandatory jail time, that kind of thing)
- GOP won't do it because small business owners are a core demographic
- Democrats might do it, but it'd be political suicide and they know it

3) Build a giant *** wall
- GOP won't actually do this because of the eminent domain rampage they'd have to go on would be horrific PR
- The Democrats (rightly) laugh this one off as too stupid to consider

I don't hear anyone other than myself complain about our central bank the federal reserve printing money like it's going out of style.

Don't ever say ANYTHING is incredibly expensive when we can find excuses to print money to fund over trillion dollar wars and give Billions to bail out bad banking practice to too big to fail banks or spend billions to buy the failed business practice of our automobile companies or billions to wall street for failed investment practice.

WE CAN BUILD A *** WALL AND I DON'T WANT TO HEAR YOU WHINING ABOUT IT AND YES WE CAN AFFORD TO FUND THE MANPOWER FOR DEPORTING TENS OF MILLIONS OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

WHY ?

BECAUSE WE ARE ameriCANS NOT ameriCANTS
 Siren.Lordgrim
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2016-08-23 15:03:03  
Vote for Trump because you are a ameriCAN

if you vote for Clinton your a ameriCANT
 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2016-08-23 15:06:36  
An American*
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 Siren.Lordgrim
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2016-08-23 15:07:50  
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
An American*
i say a american, freedom of speech !!!!
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2016-08-23 15:11:14  
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
An American*
'murkin*
 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2016-08-23 15:13:20  
Also you're*
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By Bloodrose 2016-08-23 16:21:44  
The more money you have in circulation, the less it's worth, which means additional costs of keeping money in circulation rise, as does repealing old or damaged currency. Then there's the whole issue of paying basic staff, hiring security contractors, shipping, and distribution.

Which are more things you clearly don't understand about Centralized banking, much less the Federal Reserve. The US has issues enough as it is finding manpower for labor intensive jobs because they typically don't pay well, unless they happen to be specialized trade positions, and those are finding their own shortfall of potential employees.

Other than counterfeit bills being introduced into circulation, the amount of actual bills being distributed are falling short of the bills being returned as damaged, or taken to other countries as souvenirs, and the Federal Reserve doesn't even print enough to keep up with that. They have a license to print bills, but that doesn't mean they can do so willy-nilly as you like to claim.

Have you even bothered to look at the logistics of building the wall? Maintaining such a wall? The severe government overreach required to access land to do so, which you are supposed to clearly be against? How about the cost of securing the wall after it's been built? Or the fact the "bad" illegals circumvent existing laws through legal means of entry? That there is land the government can not touch or physically build a wall over due to existing constitutional laws, or geographical impossibility? Or that it's really not fiscally responsible, much less fiscally practical, and would require a minimum 10% tax hike across the board to even begin with, something you're also supposed to be opposed to, although it's been revealed that you don't seem to care if other people are taxed to death so long as it doesn't affect you. How about the amount of time it would take to build that wall? It would take decades, and the longer a construction project takes to complete, the less effective it becomes, and would bankrupt a large portion of the cities and states closest to that border wall that depend on tourism.

Given all the proclivities of "your way" or your view of Trump's vision, it's going to be another "Berlin Wall" effect, which is in reality, the closest thing to Hitler's Germany.
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By eliroo 2016-08-23 16:31:44  
Bloodrose said: »

Given all the proclivities of "your way" or your view of Trump's vision, it's going to be another "Berlin Wall" effect, which is in reality, the closest thing to Hitler's Germany.


I agree with a lot of points that you made but this statement is pretty ridiculous. There is a huge difference between a Wall separating a city within the same country to a wall in between countries.

I think it is a hard argument to make that the wall is ethically wrong, it will just be fruitless expense that could be spent elsewhere.
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By Bloodrose 2016-08-23 16:45:39  
Why is the argument that having a wall between two countries hard to call ethically wrong?

It leads into the era of turning the Modern day United States into a post WWI era Germany where it becomes a police state that can then demand people show their citizenship papers upon demand, while also telling the rest of the world they want to close off their borders to anyone who doesn't conform to their specific and strict way of thinking.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-08-23 16:55:57  
Bloodrose said: »
Why is the argument that having a wall between two countries hard to call ethically wrong?

It leads into the era of turning the Modern day United States into a post WWI era Germany where it becomes a police state that can then demand people show their citizenship papers upon demand, while also telling the rest of the world they want to close off their borders to anyone who doesn't conform to their specific and strict way of thinking.

I'm sorry, but that's quite a stretch. I'm not exactly a strong proponent of the wall, but a wall does not a police state make. Additionally, we have the right as a nation to keep anyone out who is not willing to assimilate and abide by our laws and constitution.
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 Siren.Lordgrim
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2016-08-23 17:01:24  
Bloodrose said: »
Why is the argument that having a wall between two countries hard to call ethically wrong?

It leads into the era of turning the Modern day United States into a post WWI era Germany where it becomes a police state that can then demand people show their citizenship papers upon demand, while also telling the rest of the world they want to close off their borders to anyone who doesn't conform to their specific and strict way of thinking.

Yes we want people to conform to our laws.

Especially our Immigration laws. If you can't respect our laws you don't need to be in the US no matter the circumstances.

Violating and breaking immigration laws is a criminal offense just like any other laws there is no exceptions and 8ts a slap in the face of Honest Immigration of people who did it the right way.

Try all you want you George Soros supporting open borders globalist. The United States will not lose it's sovereignty on my watch come hell or high water.
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By fonewear 2016-08-23 17:05:17  
Bloodrose said: »
Why is the argument that having a wall between two countries hard to call ethically wrong?

It leads into the era of turning the Modern day United States into a post WWI era Germany where it becomes a police state that can then demand people show their citizenship papers upon demand, while also telling the rest of the world they want to close off their borders to anyone who doesn't conform to their specific and strict way of thinking.

Ok we will send Canada all the illegal immigrants from Mexico see how you like it !
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-08-23 17:06:56  
Rose, I probably shouldn't mention this but last time I was in Europe, "Your papers please" was standard and Europeans had to present their passports to rent a hotel room in their own country.

That's about 20 years ago but I don't think much has changed in that regard.

You and I live in countries in many ways freer than any in the EU. In other ways not so free.
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By Anna Ruthven 2016-08-23 17:09:56  
Siren.Lordgrim said: »
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
An American*
i say a american, freedom of speech !!!!
But we still get mad that Hillary and Obama don't call terrorists what we want to call them.
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 Siren.Lordgrim
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2016-08-23 17:15:07  
Anna Ruthven said: »
Siren.Lordgrim said: »
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
An American*
i say a american, freedom of speech !!!!
But we still get mad that Hillary and Obama don't call terrorists what we want to call them.

Your damn right Americans get pissed off because it's those two *** and there fellow cohorts who are funding them to keep a pretense of waging never ending war. We are tired of it and they need brought to justice.
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By Anna Ruthven 2016-08-23 17:16:26  
Siren.Lordgrim said: »
Anna Ruthven said: »
Siren.Lordgrim said: »
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
An American*
i say a american, freedom of speech !!!!
But we still get mad that Hillary and Obama don't call terrorists what we want to call them.

Your damn right Americans get pissed off because it's those two *** and there fellow cohorts who are funding them to keep a pretense of waging never ending war. We are tired of it and they need brought to justice.
*cuts mic*


...........not really.
 Siren.Lordgrim
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2016-08-23 17:28:27  
So Anna molly are you in the same boat with Clinton and Obama that cannot recognize the growing problem of radical Islamic extremism of a small portion of the billions of moslems in our world killing and forcing there practice of belief? Are you like them a apologist for this ? Because Clinton is she supports them and even get a paid by them and does favors for them look at Saudi Arabia destroying Yemen with weapons Clinton authorized. Look at Obama saying Assad uses bio weapons awhile he is authorizing the cia to give biological weapons like Sarin gas to ISIS to frame Assad in Syria saying it was him the United Nations verified through a independent investigation that the US was lieing.

The cats out of the bag Anna our government is up to eye balls in wrong doings inside our borders and outside our borders. We need to hit the reset button if this world is ever going to see a chance of peace from the United States.
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By Anna Ruthven 2016-08-23 17:36:42  
The Obama Administration has blocked several importers from buying South Korea's surplus US-made M1 Garand rifles for sale to civilians.

...that's irrelevant but I figured I'd say something about it. *shrugs*
 Siren.Lordgrim
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2016-08-23 17:42:09  
The last time our world seen peace from the United States was under the leadership of Jimmy Carter like him or hate him that was 4 years of peace from the United States.
 Siren.Lordgrim
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2016-08-23 17:45:06  
Anna Ruthven said: »
The Obama Administration has blocked several importers from buying South Korea's surplus US-made M1 Garand rifles for sale to civilians.

...that's irrelevant but I figured I'd say something about it. *shrugs*

No it's very relevant that shows you he doesn't value our 2nd amendment rights. And neither does Hillary Clinton, Trump on the other hand does.like him or hate him
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By Anna Ruthven 2016-08-23 17:45:55  
I mean... I would block the import but only long enough to make it to where US-made firearms don't have to be import marked. I hate seeing a vintage pistol or rifle with "CAI Georgia VT" etched into it.

Yeah, let's import mark the Statue of Liberty or a priceless painting or something...
 Siren.Lordgrim
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2016-08-23 17:55:05  
Anna Ruthven said: »
I mean... I would block the import but only long enough to make it to where US-made firearms don't have to be import marked. I hate seeing a vintage pistol or rifle with "CAI Georgia VT" etched into it.

Yeah, let's import mark the Statue of Liberty or a priceless painting or something...

Wouldn't have to worry about imports if we cut 20,000 laws restricting our 2nd amendment rights . Doing that alone would would bring back the gun making factories providing jobs to Americans in America and providing economic growth in arms sales in our own nation and abroad with that beautiful Made In the USA.

Not only does that promote making our nation safer from invasion, it would lower crime rates from what we are seeing today. Lastly it's our right to be armed it's not a privilege. That's the American way.
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-08-23 18:07:38  
Off freaking topic.

Also never try to argue with LG. It doesn't work.

P. S. I have fired an M1 garand. Its really a lousy, too heavy rifle.
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By Anna Ruthven 2016-08-23 18:09:32  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Off freaking topic.

Also never try to argue with LG. It doesn't work.

P. S. I have fired an M1 garand. Its really a lousy, too heavy rifle.
You hurt your thumb, didn't you?
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By Bloodrose 2016-08-23 18:14:14  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Bloodrose said: »
Why is the argument that having a wall between two countries hard to call ethically wrong?

It leads into the era of turning the Modern day United States into a post WWI era Germany where it becomes a police state that can then demand people show their citizenship papers upon demand, while also telling the rest of the world they want to close off their borders to anyone who doesn't conform to their specific and strict way of thinking.

I'm sorry, but that's quite a stretch. I'm not exactly a strong proponent of the wall, but a wall does not a police state make. Additionally, we have the right as a nation to keep anyone out who is not willing to assimilate and abide by our laws and constitution.
A wall by itself, does not. It's the mentality associated with it that creates the police state. Lordgrim is an example of this mentality with all of his catcalling for the imprisonment and execution of those he *feels* are traitors to his way of thinking.

And as a nation, you do have that right, but that would involve more enforcement of the current laws, and the legal deportation of illegal immigrants. Bear in mind, the US Constitution does not permit unjust persecution in regards to any people, regardless of ethnicity or country of origin. Which is what many proponents of the wall are calling for. These are the people who wish for such a version of America where those they deem to be "inferior" or "not one of the chosen few" they don't immediately dismiss as sheeple for conforming to their views (Note: I mentioned views, not laws, because they should be willing to live in and accept the US's laws, but many views are contrary to and are even willing to break the laws themselves)

@Lordgrim: How would a globalist nation, such as the US, which has been a steady globalized power for generations, survive as a secularized sovereign nation, when it depends greatly on international industries, trades, and tourism?

I've asked for your plans for this future before, only to be rebuffed or instantly dismissed purely on the basis of disagreeing, or challenging your views by asking for more information, or buffeted with more Alex Jones conspiracy talking points that have little or no relevance at all.

In regards to the Second Amendment, they aren't coming for your guns. They aren't preventing reasonable people from obtaining legalized firearms. And regardless of what Hillary or Trump propose, or anyone else for that matter, as legislation about guns that pertain to the Second Amendment, that's up to the Supreme court to pass or deny, as the interpreters and arbiters of the Constitution. If there is an issue, you have legal recourse to take it up or challenge their ruling before you go "a gunning" (pun intended), to brand them as traitors, or call for their imprisonment without due process.
 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2016-08-23 19:15:13  
No sense in talking about the wall, Trumps not going to build it. He's not going to do much of anything that Bush and Obama didn't do.

That's the take away from his latest.
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By fonewear 2016-08-23 19:35:24  
Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
No sense in talking about the wall, Trumps not going to build it. He's not going to do much of anything that Bush and Obama didn't do.

That's the take away from his latest.

Not with that attitude. If you were in medieval China you would have settled for a picket fence to keep the Mongolians out !
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By Bloodrose 2016-08-23 19:36:52  
fonewear said: »
Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
No sense in talking about the wall, Trumps not going to build it. He's not going to do much of anything that Bush and Obama didn't do.

That's the take away from his latest.

Not with that attitude. If you were in medieval China you would have settled for a picket fence to keep the Mongolians out !
Would it be a white picket fence?
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By fonewear 2016-08-23 19:39:15  
Bloodrose said: »
fonewear said: »
Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
No sense in talking about the wall, Trumps not going to build it. He's not going to do much of anything that Bush and Obama didn't do.

That's the take away from his latest.

Not with that attitude. If you were in medieval China you would have settled for a picket fence to keep the Mongolians out !
Would it be a white picket fence?

Is there any other kind.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-08-23 20:27:03  
Anna Ruthven said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Off freaking topic.

Also never try to argue with LG. It doesn't work.

P. S. I have fired an M1 garand. Its really a lousy, too heavy rifle.
You hurt your thumb, didn't you?
No. From standing position the forestock was too heavy to hold steady. As to obsolete military rifles both the Springfield and the Enfield were much better that way.

Ever see the rounds expended / causality figures from our 20th century wars?

In WWI they actually aimed....

But still off topic.
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