BST Balance Discussions

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Beast Master » BST Balance discussions
BST Balance discussions
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 Shiva.Malthar
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By Shiva.Malthar 2016-04-02 21:23:39  
Why is it anyone who complains about the bst nerf or even wants to talk about it gets banned from the official forums?

We all know the nerf sucks but SE absolutely refuses to listen to anyone, and the official bst trolls are doing everything in their power to keep it so.

So how do we proceed? How do we get SE to listen? How do we affect a change? We need an #petrevolution.
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2016-04-02 21:37:21  
(Wake me up)
Wake me up inside
(I can't wake up)
Wake me up inside
(Save me)
Call my name and save me from Malthar
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By Draylo 2016-04-02 21:38:27  
die bst!!!
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 Quetzalcoatl.Tesseracta
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tesseracta 2016-04-02 22:01:44  
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/create
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 Sylph.Ice
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By Sylph.Ice 2016-04-02 22:18:49  
The first thing you do is stop using hashtags. The second thing is to stop bitching.
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 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2016-04-02 22:26:47  
What did they do to BST?
 Shiva.Malthar
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By Shiva.Malthar 2016-04-03 02:38:31  
The struggle is real.

See how whenever anyone tries to start a dialog about bst the bstrolls come out in force to bomb the thread? I don't have to name names because they've already shown themselves.
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By Thorva 2016-04-03 02:59:06  
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
(Wake me up)
Wake me up inside
(I can't wake up)
Wake me up inside
(Save me)
Call my name and save me from Malthar


No joke that song is playing right now

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By Asura.Floppyseconds 2016-04-03 03:07:21  
The same person is still complaining about BST and the nerf that wasn't a nerf? Wow. Shocking.
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 Shiva.Malthar
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By Shiva.Malthar 2016-04-03 03:19:26  
And the trolls play on...

To the admins:

Can we discuss the relevant topic in the thread instead of the trolls trying to derail it?
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By iambatman3131 2016-04-03 03:32:15  
I like trolls, and i like BST, but who am i, i am just a goat.
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 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2016-04-03 03:33:53  
Shiva.Malthar said: »
And the trolls play on...

To the admins:

Can we discuss the relevant topic in the thread instead of the trolls trying to derail it?
Yeah because an admin is gonna care that no one actually cares about your ***posts topic.
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By Creaucent Alazrin 2016-04-03 04:52:20  
Because you can't do really good hate free damage and stay out of harms reach at the same time. The nerf was fixing an OP job that took little effort. Now you bandwagon terrible bsts are whining every chance you get no wonder SE are banning people on the OF for always bringing it up.

Get good, adjust and move on!
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By FaeQueenCory 2016-04-03 07:16:42  
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By Jetackuu 2016-04-03 07:32:07  
The "nerf" is merely an annoyance, not a hindrance anyway...
 Cerberus.Tidis
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2016-04-03 08:14:14  
Jetackuu said: »
The "nerf" is merely an annoyance, not a hindrance anyway...
Yep, and the lolBST complain because they can't stay in damage range and stay alive.
 Asura.Foreverj
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By Asura.Foreverj 2016-04-03 09:45:57  
Cerberus.Tidis said: »
Jetackuu said: »
The "nerf" is merely an annoyance, not a hindrance anyway...
Yep, and the lolBST complain because they can't stay in damage range and stay alive.

That's the whole point of being a bst. Dealing damage and staying out of range of damage. If we need to take damage then why not just play blue Mage. Deals more damage and better being able to survive. I hadn't touch my close to master bst after discovering blue Mage.

Anyway imagine fighting a T4 reisenjima as a bst pre nerf and pre revitalizer nerf. 1 hour twice a fight while spamming tegmina buffet. I hadn't done any T4 but just thinking how fun that would be.
 Odin.Vuq
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By Odin.Vuq 2016-04-03 09:48:34  
/nin
 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2016-04-03 10:14:44  
Looks like this "nerf" just put BST back where it always was to begin with.
I loved BST, it was my favorite job, I played FFXI for a decade,
but BST has never been very useful for end game stuff.
So that's why I leveled other jobs and just got gear for BST with those jobs and played BST on my own time mostly.

These band-wagoneers find a job and exploit it until SE finally notices and then nerfs it.
The band-wagoneers did this to RNG and several other jobs too.
I hope this "nerf" makes the general public go back to saying "lolBST" and "BST sucks" that way SE will stop paying attention to my favorite job (just in case I do come back some day)
 Asura.Foreverj
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By Asura.Foreverj 2016-04-03 10:17:00  
Yea but scholar is still broken and untouched. I mean I have a 1200+ JP scholar as well so I hope they don't nerf it as well.

It's just basically a matter of bad luck. The people who plays bst gets screwed, the people who plays scholar don't gets screwed.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2016-04-03 10:29:02  
I'm not here to troll. Firstly, Beastmaster was so overpowered I could solo the entirety of Einherjar (including Odin), and others were soloing high-tier battlefields without much effort. After the update it became harder, but still manageable.

The problem with the job was that .. if you didn't have a party with a Scholar and Black Mages (MB setup), you could throw three BSTs with buffs, put the pets on, and twiddle your thumbs as the pets wrecked most content.

While it was great for casual players, I hated it for many reasons. Firstly, why should BST be able to do that and not Summoner? And secondly, why should BST be able to do so much damage without having to stand in range while melee DDs such as Dark Knight, Warrior or Dragoon have no choice but to be in range?

Since the "nerf", BSTs continue to be used. If I take BSTs to Sinister Reign or Escha, it becomes clear who the good BSTs are. What you need is good damage taken sets, /nin, and most importantly .. the ability to MOVE out of range when you don't need to do anything.

I'm always telling BSTs to do this .. why stand next to a dangerous NM if you ain't doing anything? And then you have BSTs who stand next to the NM in red HP and EXPECT to be cured. That's when you realize who the real BSTs are, and who the casual BSTs are. The "nerf" wasn't about hurting the job, it was about balancing the entire game.

Summoner got an update which lets them stand well out of range, and that makes more sense seen as Summoner is the master of avatars and had to go through many, many trials to acquire them .. unlike BST who just buys a jug from the shop, gears up .. and then yeah, ready to go.

It still remains a very powerful DD job. It's so powerful that it negates the need for melee damage dealers. Essentially, three BSTs > any combination of WAR DRG SAM MNK DRK etc. So while you complain that your Beastmaster has to be in range .. how do you think melee DDs feel? Melee DDs need much more support, gear, and knowledge to do consistent damage without succumbing to death .. whereas BST can throw a pet at it and do amazing damage by spamming Tegmina Buffet.

Please consider other jobs in the game. There's many other jobs which should have a buff, and Beastmaster was (and still is) one of the best DD jobs in the game when you don't have a Scholar for Magic Bursts. Also I don't mean to sound insulting, but this "nerf" happened many, many months ago, so I don't understand why you made this thread now, and not back when the update was implemented.

And just so you know, I have BST on 99, but I only used it for a short time so I could farm Einherjar. It was too difficult on THF (it was before the time update), so I used BST, and even when the "nerf" happened, I was still able to farm the points I needed for my mythic. When I was finished with it, I retired the job again and put my gear on slips/mules.
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 Asura.Foreverj
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By Asura.Foreverj 2016-04-03 10:38:45  
But why balance bst and not balance scholar? That's my whole point. SE choses who to balance.

In the perfect world they leave bst untouched just as scholar is untouched. Well they did touch scholar, they buffed it but making magic burst more powerful.

Don't get me wrong I have a good scholar bst and blue Mage. I'm not favoring Bst. Just SE is not fair towards some jobs. I mean we all know that.

To answer ur last question. If u read correctly The op made this thread to say people who complain about bst is getting banned from
The official forum.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2016-04-03 10:46:02  
Asura.Foreverj said: »
But why balance bst and not balance scholar? That's my whole point. SE choses who to balance.

In the perfect world they leave bst untouched just as scholar is untouched. Well they did touch scholar, they buffed it but making magic burst more powerful.

Don't get me wrong I have a good scholar bst and blue Mage. I'm not favoring Bst. Just SE is not fair towards some jobs. I mean we all know that.

To answer ur last question. If u read correctly The op made this thread to say people who complain about bst is getting banned from
The official forum.

SE doesn't usually ban someone unless they are overly aggressive and use foul language. If you are articulate, explain yourself clearly, and don't allow your anger/frustration to dominate your posts, then they can't ban you. Also the fact he's frustrated over something they fixed so many months ago isn't going to help his case. It would be like .. if I complained to the UK Parliament about David Cameron getting elected in 2010. If it's six years too late, no one's going to take me seriously.

And yes, Scholar is stupidly overpowered. I've seen SCH solo Escha NMs and Sinister Reign, so it's not just OP in party situations, it can solo extremely well too. Does that mean I want SE to nerf Scholar? Nope, not in the slightest.
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 Shiva.Malthar
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By Shiva.Malthar 2016-04-03 10:48:52  
We career bsts aren't complaining that we have to be in range. Before the nerf I would melee with my pet anyway. Draylo can testify to this. What we are trying to get SE to understand is that the range is way too short!

If you're standing inline with your pet closer to the mob than your pet you should expect your moves to go off, which sometimes they don't. Dasva posted a screenshot of exactly this happening. And in response, SE permanently banned him from the official forums. The shortened range also obliterates other types of bst tactics, such as standing behind the mob while your pet tanks. You're still exposed to AoE danger, but with the current range the master is unable to execute ready moves, and such, behind the mob without being out of range.

I suggested the perfect solution to SE about how to modify the beastmaster job. I suggested directly varying pet damage with master range. That is, if the master is far away from the pet, the pet would melee slower, have less damage, and its ready moves would be scale quadratic. If the master master was very close to the pet, the pet would melee with configured haste, 100% damage and its ready moves would do 100% damage. In response SE perma-banned me from the official forums.

The range nerf is the worst thing SE could have done to bst. Sure, it got rid of the bandwaggoners, but it also caused some career bst to quit because the range was so ridiculously short. And SE would listen to no-one about how castrating an effect this change had to the job.
 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2016-04-03 10:51:06  
It isn't balance if more and more jobs are pulled out of participating in endgame. Balance would be the opposite, allowing all jobs the opportunity to participate.

This is why, whenever anyone cries for a nerf for anything used by players, I adamantly oppose them.

The solution should have been to leave BST alone and to find a way to buff player-controlled melee so that they too could stand toe-to-toe with endgame content and enjoy themselves.

In an environment where the population is dropping or at least stagnating (we can all agree more people aren't joining the FFXI ranks) and where adding more people to fights make them significantly more difficult, balance would be an assurance from SE that every job is able to bring something to the party that off sets the boosts to the NM their presence within the group provides.

Instead, this nerf, like most nerfs, further diminished which jobs are brought to the fights that matter.
And that is a loss to all of us.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2016-04-03 10:53:33  
Shiva.Malthar said: »
We career bsts aren't complaining that we have to be in range. Before the nerf I would melee with my pet anyway. Draylo can testify to this. What we are trying to get SE to understand is that the range is way too short!

If you're standing inline with your pet closer to the mob than your pet you should expect your moves to go off, which sometimes they don't. Dasva posted a screenshot of exactly this happening. And in response, SE permanently banned him from the official forums. The shortened range also obliterates other types of bst tactics, such as standing behind the mob while your pet tanks. You're still exposed to AoE danger, but with the current range the master is unable to execute ready moves, and such, behind the mob without being out of range.

Oh, you didn't explain this before, and it was already discussed. SE considered that option, I'm sure they said they were considering using range as a means for damage, but whatever reason they weren't able to implement it. I can see why, with how old the game is, it's not too easy to add something with so many variables.

I do think the range is far too limiting, but if they ever did increase the range, it shouldn't be by much at all. Like you said, the range it's at currently gets rid of other ways BST can use its pet to gain an advantage. BST is a very accessible job and takes little to gear, so to have all the power, it needed a drawback. The range is annoying, but in my limited time with the job I got used to it when farming Einherjar. Does anyone else have trouble with the range? I never see any of the BSTs I play with having trouble with their pets ready moves.

I suggested the perfect solution to SE about how to modify the beastmaster job. I suggested directly varying pet damage with master range. That is, if the master is far away from the pet, the pet would melee slower, have less damage, and its ready moves would be scale quadratic. If the master master was very close to the pet, the pet would melee with configured haste, 100% damage and its ready moves would do 100% damage. In response SE perma-banned me from the official forums.

The range nerf is the worst thing SE could have done to bst. Sure, it got rid of the bandwaggoners, but it also caused some career bst to quit because the range was so ridiculously short. And SE would listen to no-one about how castrating an effect this change had to the job.
 Shiva.Malthar
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By Shiva.Malthar 2016-04-03 10:55:36  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
SE doesn't usually ban someone unless they are overly aggressive and use foul language.

This is not true. A lot of people have used foul language and are overly aggressive, but they do not get banned. But as soon as anymore makes a reference to the bst nerf being excessive they use any type of infraction, regardless of how small, as an excuse to ban the individual. My language was not foul and I was not overly aggressive. But when I complained about the range nerf I got perma-banned. Dasva complained about the bst nerf and he got perma-banned with some esoteric explanation, even though that was his first so-called offense. This happened to many others till the complaints about the range nerf ceased.

"The beatings shall continue until morale improves." That seems to be the official stance SE is taking.
 Sylph.Dravidian
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By Sylph.Dravidian 2016-04-03 10:55:51  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
SE doesn't usually ban someone unless they are overly aggressive and use foul language.

This is false and many people among the years can attest to this. All it requires is people to spam report you and you can essentially be banned for anything. If the person for example reporting you feels harassed. Say goodbye to your forum account.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2016-04-03 10:58:02  
Shiva.Malthar said: »
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
SE doesn't usually ban someone unless they are overly aggressive and use foul language.

This is not true. A lot of people have used foul language and are overly aggressive, but they do not get banned. But as soon as anymore makes a reference to the bst nerf being excessive they use any type of infraction, regardless of how small, as an excuse to ban the individual. My language was not foul and I was not overly aggressive. But when I complained about the range nerf I got perma-banned. Dasva complained about the bst nerf and he got perma-banned with some esoteric explanation, even though that was his first so-called offense. This happened to many others till the complaints about the range nerf ceased.

"The beatings shall continue until morale improves." That seems to be the official stance SE is taking.

Apologies, I can't admit to knowing all the details of what goes on over there. I don't usually see overly aggressive posts on the forum, so I assumed anyone who did got banned.
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