The Great Debate 3: FFXI Has Benefited From Having RMT

Of course there aren't many crafters anymore. Think about the reasons for this. The problem is, to become a level 90+ crafter, you have to pour gil into it because deflation has made it so expensive to level. Of course people have to farm. It's the only way anyone can make gil anymore. What you're describing here are the consequences of deflation.

I'm not forgetting that SE can adjust prices. The problem is, they almost never do. If levelling crafting was still as feasible as you claim, i think winterlight up there would be having an easier time of it.

People don't level craft cause it's completely pointless now, the game is just too old, would be like starting a relic today, knowing you can only play FF XI 5hr a week. You'll never gather the 180M gils needed before 2015. Same goes for crafting. By the day you'll hit 100, everyone will be on FF XIV. Crafting always been a long term investment anyway. Not like raising GS to 100 was easier in 2006 than in 2009. You always lost shitload of money in the process of leveling a crafter.

Do you think the fact that you have to pour that much gil into crafting for so little return might, just maybe, say something about the state of the economy?

GS dosent equal all crafts.

Food for thought. Do you think it's possible that some of the level 100 crafters just might maybe be at least partially RMT funded? If so, would that make it easier for other players to get high level HQs? Sounds suspiciously like a benefit to me.

It doesn't since it has always been the case, as I said, even in 2006, had to invest millions to get a high level crafter. That's why I never raised mine :d



Even if they weren't RMT funded, would have eventually reached 100. Since this game exists, any decent player have generated "by himself" (= w/o RMT) enough gils to level any craft to lv100. And for the lambda player, which again, is -not- a crafter, RMT didn't help him. The few level 100 crafter available had a monopoly on lot of items, sucking the average player gils, making profit even on NQ synth (and mega profit if HQ).

Question ain't about a small group of individual, sure a part of the population had benefit from RMT (lol if you buys gils, you obviously have an advantage over other players); but FF XI in general didn't.

We have MMOs were RMT were -almost- non existent, crafting and economy was just fine. So I don't see how no RMT = fail craft/economy.

I see RMTs as telemarketers. Ignore then and they will eventually go away.

However, if there is a base that will continue to purchase through them, they will stay around.

I do not see how FF has benefited from RMT.
I can however agree that no matter the MMO, there will be RMT activity because there are players that will buy accounts, items and or money.

You can sell virtually anything and everything in the RL world. There will always be someone that will buy w/e item you are willing to sell.

From a 100 level crafter, I think RMT has been very unhelpful. It has augmented the supply side of the market, and drive the AH toward in favor of farming basic materials, which reduces legit crafters who only craft may be 1 hour an evening (who are unable compete with 24/7 crafters).

I do not believe RMT really effects actual player skill, as there will always be good skilled and bad skilled players. Instead RMT creates a bad way to judge skill; "skill" is determined by how shiney you look, and being shiney (how you look) is more important than what skill (what you do) really is.

First off because someone made the comment directed at me, I asked people to stay on topic when they started talking about FFXIV, there are many threads for that purpose, this isn't one of them. Secondly, I asked for him to not make attacks, he could have said everything he did without the two things I quoted. He could have even directed his comments at RMT, instead he directed them at the thread, which was why I said that if he doesn't like the thread he doesn't have to post here. Third, the topic is not my view on RMT Companies, it's a statement, as part of a debate you are supposed to argue for or against the statement, I didn't think it was that hard. I don't agree nor like what RMT Companies are doing to the FFXI players, nor do I agree with RMT in general. Lucky for me though, I'm on Odin where I don't have to deal with it.

Printing money to excess causes inflation, the market was saturated with money as you said, however in moderation, inflation is low and steady. And yes after I posted I remembered that the second year of mog bonanza did take money out of the system, however the first year did generate money, so I stand corrected on that point. The fact is if people have money they'll spend it.

Everyone blames RMT Companies for being outclaimed at an NM or that they're using bots so they beat you, isn't it possible that it's a real person on the other end and they're just better than you or luckier than you? People need to remember that if it wasn't RMT doing a lot of these things, it would be other players. Who was banned from Salvage dupes? It wasn't the RMT. Players will exploit the system, RMT Companies do it to turn a profit.

To me RMT would be around even if the RMT Companies weren't. As someone said, while this isn't real life you can always place a real life value on something, as such people will. RMT Companies have had a detrimental impact on FFXI, the act of Real Money Trading hasn't.

And whoops I almost forgot. FFXI is benefited by RMT Companies in having google ads that give sites like FFXIAH.com and wiki ad clicks that provide additional revenue to keep these sites running.

If it wouldn't be RMT website it would be something else. Not like you need gil selling ads to maintain a such website...



Yeah and that's was in 2008. Guess what ? Prices in 2008 were higher than in 2009 and SE took the decision to remove money from the economy in 2009 but not in 2008. Which still doesn't prove anything. My thought : SE realized how they *** up in 2008, and decided to use the 2009 one as money sink event.

If SE policy, in 2009, where the inflation was at its lowest, was to decide to remove gils from the economy, there was a reason.

I dunno what the stats are but I'm sure more people are likely to click on RMT ads than they are other ads. Not even to buy anything, just to look.

Yup that means more money for the owner of the website, doesn't mean that the website wouldn't survive at all without RMT ads. Lot of website with more traffic than that one are able to live without having RMT-related ads on them. Would need an admin to give us the figures for ffxiah tho :p

Also I could say that if instead of spending money into gils, people would donate money to ffxiah, then one sure thing, this website would have no money issue to run haha. Could imagine premium tools and functionality for people donating :p

Finally, with all hacks and the terror RMT induced into the average FF XI player, can safely say that lot of people now use Firefox w/ NoScript :) Cannot see ads with that = less income for FFXIah. Nobody wanna end up owned by an exploit like the one on ffxi atlas, BG or even ffxiclopedia.

Taking topics for the next debate which will be up in a few days to give people a break, feel free to continue commenting on any of these topics.

American GMs sanction and profit from engaging in and or turning their head to RMT hacking the game.

discuss.

Been watching these 2 taru BLM, Mamikou and Takorun flee hack, warp hack themselves up walls, warp hack themselves into walls, walk over gates that you have to open and flee for 5-10 minutes at a time on BLM/WHM. I have called nine GMs and placed multiple Task Force reports and they refuse to take any action.

Isn't there a cheat auto-pwner going around now that is banning people automatically for so much as lag resulting from a wireless connection? The GM obviously know that these two are hacking, they don't go 3 minutes without warping into a wall or fleeing away from mobs.

This all points towards GMs knowing what is going on yet not doing anything, or worse yet participating. We've all seen the posts from people banned by the new hack anti-measures for as little as playing on wireless cards. I find it impossible to believe that they aren't being detected.

Reposted this here because a mod thought that this is the same topic even thought this is about FF/SE/The entire community and i'm really only talking about GM involvement in RMT. GM are all outsourced so they are farther from being a part of FFXI or SE than we are.

FFXI as a whole benefiting from RMT is impossible. It is becoming apparent GMs or other people that are outsourced by Square Enix to maintain their game are hacking the game and doing it in plain sight of other people.

FFXI as an entity is overall hurting from the RMT presence, but that's nothing compared to GM or other people taking advantage of the game.

Sorry to derail but I was sent here.

Also I watched a black mage cast stun while healing and remain healing for 10 seconds.

This goes a little farther than people being frustrated over claims when people are obviously circumventing ingame mechanics.

There is no auto-banner... that would be silly

Have you bothered to report them? GMs don't know everything.

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/?topic_id=4850&page=2

Double post, my mistake.

For personal reasons I'm stopping posting these threads, my heart isn't in it any more. On top of that Korpg has decided to abuse me for my dictatorship and censorship by my monopolisation of Debate threads. I'm not just interested in trying to do something for this forum when people think I'm going out of my way to be a type of person that would do that, you'll probably see me posting less in general.

Feel free to do it yourself without my dictatorship.

I don't know what happened as I haven't participate in this particular debate at all since I had nothing to add, but I'd really hate to see something like this cause you to post less as I've almost always thought of you as a really rational, level-headed person that also gave great commentary and insight on a lot of topics. I agree that perhaps these debates threads should cease given the unfriendly, unwelcoming atmosphere that they seem to be producing now, but I had fun with them while it lasted, so thanks for providing and moderating them.

Korpg's kind of an *** in general anyway, if that helps at all. *'-'

I wouldn't do anything because of Korpg.

As you said, I try to be rational and level-headed but at the moment I'm just not going to be so I'm going to back away.

It was fun and I enjoyed it, I would hate to see these lost but I just can't be the person to do it any more because I don't trust myself.

I try to make a debate thread, and I get yelled at because Karusan has complete power over debate threads.....

So, what does he do? He quits making debate threads and blames me for it.......

And I get called the ***....

You are an ***.

I'm not blaming you either. I'm not the type of person to stop doing something because the local *** had a cry at me. You do recall I laughed in your face as a reply.

I would call you a democrat, but then again, you probably don't even know what that is, being from Australia and all.

I would call you an ***, but you might feel proud about that.

I would call you smart, but I would be lying to the world.

I would call you a good leader, but then again, you like to place blame on somebody else.

I would call you a hypocrite, but thats like calling the ocean blue.

So, I can't call you names, because there is no name to call you.

The game ffxi itself didnt benefit from RMT. More like Square enix did. A prime example would be the sale of security tokens.

I have benifited from RMT, and most of the old players have too. Not from buying gil, but from having to work for their gil. Legitimate players who didn't buy gil farmed for hours to earn their millions of gil needed to buy gear back in the day. I remember farming my *** off for scrolls for my blm and whm, making my first job to 75 that much more of a special experience for myself. Back in 2005, having a Noble's Tunic, Hauby, etc. etc. was not like it is now. These items are like the Wal-Mart Turbans, everyone has them now. Back then, farming the gil needed for these items as a pain in the *** time sink, but when you got them, it was awesome. Yeah, it was a pain in the *** having RMT all over the place, fishing, owning NMs, and mpking you when you got claim, but it added another level of difficulty to the game. It took me months to farm the gil for my HQ staves, Nobles, spells, and other gears, but when I got them, it was a great achievement for myself. When I quit the game in 2007, I sold all my gear and gave away all the gil. When I came back this year, I dreaded not having much gear because I thought it would take me a few months again of farming, but getting everything back took me a month of farming, and I was kind of bummed out about it. Yes, the deflation we have now is nice, but having certain gear not every WHM had at that time was a damn good feeling.