Random Arguments & Strawmen #15

Now this is an election map. They don't make em like they used to!

It's not an argument and you can't avoid it if people keep incorrectly saying more Americans wanted Trump than Hillary.

It wouldn't come up if people said "Going by the Electoral College results; more of America wanted Trump"

It's nuance and important when being accurate.

If you take notice the people from Vermont were crazy liberals back then even too.

Here's a pointless graph describing the pointless popular vote:

If you grab your magnifying glass you can notice where it says for "entertainment purposes only do not cite for argument"

Trump won more minority votes and more majority votes than Romney or McCain.

The anomaly isn't Clinton, it's Obama. He was able to over energize people and skyrocket turnout. He was the best salesperson for giving identity politics a chance. Now that it has failed, things are kind of "returning to normal".

This is why Clinton lost, because she sold herself as the next gen of identity politics (first woman pres) instead of something different.

But it's stupid, the majority of Americans that voted didn't want Hillary OR Trump so what the hell does it matter if she got more votes than Trump?

Ok let's play this game


2012 Election Results

PA


MI



OH


WI




2016 Election Results

PA


MI



OH


WI




Vote Differences


PA

Republican +232,507
Democrat -164,271


MI

Republican +164549
Democrat -296376


OH

Republican +175797
Democrat -435759


WI

Republican -3966
Democrat -239162



A growth in voters, to some margin is expected but not the reverse. Hillary lost votes for her party in all of these states and while some argument can be made that Trump won those votes. Population growth would slim that margin quite a bit and it should ideally effect both sides. So yea, even with your examples I am correct.

Incorrect, California voted overwhelmingly for Hillary and just happens to be the most populated state in the USA. Hillary's "popular vote" is entirely centered on high population states with large metropolitan area's. Once you step outside those area's her popularity plummets into historic lows.

Good article explaining it

https://fermentingpolitics.wordpress.com/2016/11/10/no-hillary-did-not-win-the-popular-vote/






Despite the huge Democratic starting lead of Blue states Hillary lost by a large margin. That speak volumes about what the majority of the USA feels about her. The only reasons her supporters could give to elect her is "she's a women", "she's not a Republican" and "she's not Trump".

And here's the actual election results by county, you know where congress is elected.



The "majority / popular" vote that the liberals try to cling to is really just the "urban vote", mostly in coastal cities. This is why people are calling this a culture divide, the city urbanites are so out of touch with reality (as demonstrated on this board) that they believe their opinions are the most popular and therefor "correct".

If they want to attract more supporters the first thing they need to do is drop the collective attitude and superiority complex.

Never mind that stuff some beer will settle you guys down !

I miss beer, especially craft beers and not that Budweiser piss. Alas I've since decided to swear off all alcoholic beverages in an attempt to lead a healthier life.

I wouldn't even read that article because the name is stupid. She did win the popular vote, she did not win the electoral vote. To dispute that is pointless, because it is evident.

There has also been several discussions here on how to fix the electoral college and still over-represent the population of rural states while still trying to represent the total population.

Wanna see something even more surprising? Overlay a map of proclaimed "sanctuary cities" over that map savel.

More sidestepping of the original point. The vote for an outsider turned into a vote for the same old elitism, cronyism, and Republican-lite politics. No amount of b-b-b-but Democrats can change that.

"Trump won the popular vote if you cherrypick states." Nice.

The majority is only the one we like, the rest of the majority will not be counted in the majority.

You keep whining about things that just aren't true.

America is gonna be great again regardless if you cover your eyes or not.

You've come up with something decent? All I see is you calling Dems stupid...

Its like the majority of the people in those cities share the same opinion on illegal immigrants or something.

Are you really using that point to argue about illegals voting? Because that is pretty dumb.

People like you are the ones I don't get. Like I completely get the whole "lesser evil" mentality. For me Trump was the lesser evil, and honestly still is. But I knew he is never going to "Make America great Again". I knew we were screwed either way with whichever candidate was chosen. Just going to get screwed in different forms.

How can you honestly look at a Trump and see some person who represents the everyday values that America wants to promote? How do you see someone who is heavily concerned with the well being of the middle and lower class?

Nothing great was ever going to come from this election and no one was ever going come together stronger. This election was done with the primaries and Americas fate was sealed then.

Like I said in the last thread, it's fun seeing the liberals / progressives lose their mind and squirm around. They aren't popular right now because they've been founding their entire platform on identity politics since it got Obama elected (first Black* President). Since then they've been bludgeoning who questions them with identity based attacks and bullying. You question their platform and your called a Racist, Misogynist, Homophobe, Islamophobe, uneducated red neck / ect. Eventually that had an effect as those "Racist, Misogynist, Homophobe, Islamophobe, uneducated red neck / ect" decided to vote.

Now a practical person would notice this consequence and immediately lay off the identity based insults and attempt to return to a "big tent" policy of welcoming everyone. But nope gotta double down and insult those country folk even more, maybe if they insult them even harder then next election they'll be too afraid to come out the house.

*Note*
Obama is actually as much black as he is white, his mother is Stanley Ann Dunham and is extremely white. The Democrats purposefully kept the focus off his mother and on his father in an attempt to promote his "blackness" for the sake of votes. Whenever someone would point out that Obama is just as white the response was "Shut up you, he's black because that's more useful to us".

Before he ever took office, over the thanksgiving holiday, he did this...

carrier deal

so...he's impressing the ***out of me already.

Saevel talking about superiority complexes is just precious.

Let's take a crack at this BS:


Both parties were pandering hard with Identity politics in 2008, please don't *** people here. McCain and Palin were both paraded around because of their "identity".

Furthermore here is Sanders, a progressive on the same subject: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-democrats-identity-politics-231710

He also got criticism from die-hard dems, so I do agree that some Democrats were too caught up in identity politics but not all of them.



You can't lump all democrats into this the only person on this forum that even meets that criteria is CJ.

Oh wow he paid some people to stay in Indiana and tossed the bill to the taxpayers, while some people are still gonna leave? Thats amazing!

Or Trump won the popular vote according to this blog that goes through the mental gymnastics attempting to prove its contradictory argument that "Clinton won more votes but didn't win the popular vote."

Clinton won more votes.

Again conflating the results of popular vote and electoral vote coupled with an attempt at redefining the term "popular vote" based on the definition of the word "popular" outside the paradigm of election jargon.

This made my morning. Thank you.

Yeah that was totally the Dems putting focus on his Kenyan Muslim father the last 8yrs in order to secure the black vote.

Depends on how you view a half filled/emptied glass.

That was Mike Pence governor of Indiana that made it happen but he and Trump still couldn't keep 1000 jobs from leaving the state.

Well what do you expect, it clearly bothers Trump that he lost the popular vote by the largest margin ever for a person that ended up in the WH, thats why he keeps going on twitter tirades and taking nausi's lies about voter fraud to the global stage...where they are still lies. So naturally, his fiercest supporters are going to carry that fight with them.