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Random Arguments & Strawmen #15
 Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-12-01 15:09:36
All I can see is someone salty about Obama's presidency trying to link gibberish together to make a point that doesn't exist.
it just might be the dumbest thing I have ever read....
and I read the fracking debate where someone suggested falling off a ladder could cause an earthquake. Oh that ***was great! Brace yourself when the garbage trucks come rumbling by!!!
I had to find the source to figure out the inside joke here. I thought it was fairly straightforward what he meant, even if it wasn't the best example. I guess maintaining the joke is more important than understanding the context, though. Of course you would ^^
It's not rocket science, but when you value ridicule over critical thinking that's what ends up happening.
[+]
Lakshmi.Flavin
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2016-12-01 15:13:52
All I can see is someone salty about Obama's presidency trying to link gibberish together to make a point that doesn't exist.
it just might be the dumbest thing I have ever read....
and I read the fracking debate where someone suggested falling off a ladder could cause an earthquake. Oh that ***was great! Brace yourself when the garbage trucks come rumbling by!!!
I had to find the source to figure out the inside joke here. I thought it was fairly straightforward what he meant, even if it wasn't the best example. I guess maintaining the joke is more important than understanding the context, though. Of course you would ^^
It's not rocket science, but when you value ridicule over critical thinking that's what ends up happening. If this is what you use as an example to show critical thinking then I'd venture to say you don't know what critical thinking is...
By eliroo 2016-12-01 15:14:23
You got to name something that Washington is better at Texas. And don't say coffee, because Starbucks and Seattle's Best are ***.
Coffee.
Co-worker knows all about seattles coffee and reminds me how crappy the options in TX are. Subjective to personal taste!
We need to agree on something that's not subjective that either state is better than the other.
I already gave an example of what Texas is better at. I also stated what Washington and Texas are just about as good at with each other.
Weed
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-12-01 15:17:16
If this is what you use as an example to show critical thinking then I'd venture to say you don't know what critical thinking is...
Pretty much the opposite of anything you post. But seriously, you bore me. Come back when you can make a reply that actually deals with substance more than it does with the person who posted something that triggered you.
[+]
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-12-01 15:18:06
Depends on how you view a half filled/emptied glass. Oh wow he paid some people to stay in Indiana
do either of you have an example of another politician keeping a campaign promise before he/she ever got into office?
I'd really like to see how it stacks up.
The tax breaks apparently offered them more money than what they would save on shipping the jobs oversea. It seems like a band-aid to keep jobs in America but take money out of the tax payers pockets. Imagine if other companies want to make deals like these.
Jobs will stay in America sure, but Companies will just be robbing us of more and more of our tax dollars. They love to do this here in Illinois. Then 8 months after the payout, the companies still move out of state while keeping a skeleton staff of like 10 people at their new in-state "headquarters". Can you give an example? Looking into it, found an article that has quite a few listed. chicago tribune link
Quote: Chicago-based Mondelez International Inc., best known as manufacturer of the Oreo cookie, is the most recent example of how companies can hedge tax breaks at taxpayer expense, the Tribune found.
Mondelez announced in July that about 600 workers would be laid off from its Chicago factory on South Kedzie Avenue. The production line is being moved to Salinas, Mexico, to save money, officials said.
But Mondelez operates a second manufacturing facility in Naperville that is licensed as a limited liability company, Mondelez Global — a common corporate maneuver for tax and liability purposes.
The Naperville facility received an EDGE contract in 2013 and agreed to invest $35 million in the facility and create 25 new jobs. One arm of the company thus became eligible to receive tax breaks for adding 25 jobs while another arm laid off 600. That's not an example of the specific argument you presented.
That's just an example of a company taking advantage of a tax credit while a sister company making a business decision. You do know that both companies are run completely independent to one another, right?
[+]
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-12-01 15:19:38
You got to name something that Washington is better at Texas. And don't say coffee, because Starbucks and Seattle's Best are ***.
Coffee.
Co-worker knows all about seattles coffee and reminds me how crappy the options in TX are. Subjective to personal taste!
We need to agree on something that's not subjective that either state is better than the other.
I already gave an example of what Texas is better at. I also stated what Washington and Texas are just about as good at with each other.
Weed Subjective!
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-12-01 15:20:12
If this is what you use as an example to show critical thinking then I'd venture to say you don't know what critical thinking is...
Pretty much the opposite of anything you post. But seriously, you bore me. Come back when you can make a reply that actually deals with substance more than it does with the person who posted something that triggered you. That's pretty much why you should ignore him, and only respond to bait him into making more of his outlandish posts.
[+]
By eliroo 2016-12-01 15:47:19
You got to name something that Washington is better at Texas. And don't say coffee, because Starbucks and Seattle's Best are ***.
Coffee.
Co-worker knows all about seattles coffee and reminds me how crappy the options in TX are. Subjective to personal taste!
We need to agree on something that's not subjective that either state is better than the other.
I already gave an example of what Texas is better at. I also stated what Washington and Texas are just about as good at with each other.
Weed Subjective!
Not really. Its legal there, isn't legal here. Nothing subjective about that.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-12-01 15:53:14
You got to name something that Washington is better at Texas. And don't say coffee, because Starbucks and Seattle's Best are ***.
Coffee.
Co-worker knows all about seattles coffee and reminds me how crappy the options in TX are. Subjective to personal taste!
We need to agree on something that's not subjective that either state is better than the other.
I already gave an example of what Texas is better at. I also stated what Washington and Texas are just about as good at with each other.
Weed Subjective!
Not really. Its legal there, isn't legal here. Nothing subjective about that. Still subjective.
You are basing the "betterment" on the legality aspect. Just because you think that it's better to be legal doesn't mean that we all agree. If we all agree, wouldn't it be legal in Texas?
 Garuda.Chanti
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11335
By Garuda.Chanti 2016-12-01 16:01:47
Good article on the costs and benifits of corporate welfare.
Carrier deal part of growing trend of corporate tax giveaways
The Hill
Openers:
Quote: President-elect Donald Trump on Thursday traveled to Indiana to announce a deal to keep about 1,000 furnace manufacturing jobs in the state.
The deal would not have been possible without Vice President-elect Mike Pence, the state’s outgoing governor, and it resolves just one skirmish in an increasingly heated war between states for jobs in a competitive industrial marketplace.
Across the nation, state and local governments spend massive amounts of money every year trying to win over companies. Sometimes, experts say, states reach high-profile deals that cost governments more in the long run than they benefit.
In Indiana, officials agreed to hand $7 million in tax breaks to Carrier’s parent company, United Technologies, over the next 10 years in exchange for keeping a furnace plant open in Indianapolis. Company officials had planned to move about 800 jobs to Mexico.
Another 300 jobs in the company’s research and headquarters arms, which were not scheduled to go to Mexico, will stay in Indianapolis, according to details of the plan first reported by The Wall Street Journal.
Such a giveaway is a drop in the bucket in the fierce competition for jobs....
Garuda.Chanti
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11335
By Garuda.Chanti 2016-12-01 16:07:27
Not really. Its legal there, isn't legal here. Nothing subjective about that. Still subjective.
You are basing the "betterment" on the legality aspect. Just because you think that it's better to be legal doesn't mean that we all agree. If we all agree, wouldn't it be legal in Texas? Nope. Parts of the criminal justice system are heavily invested in keeping weed illegal. And not just the for profit parts.
And I will agree that Starbucks is utter crap, and SBC barely acceptable, they are both trading on a rep that neither approaches, let alone lives up to.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-12-01 16:10:23
Good article on the costs and benifits of corporate welfare.
Carrier deal part of growing trend of corporate tax giveaways
The Hill
Openers:
Quote: President-elect Donald Trump on Thursday traveled to Indiana to announce a deal to keep about 1,000 furnace manufacturing jobs in the state.
The deal would not have been possible without Vice President-elect Mike Pence, the state’s outgoing governor, and it resolves just one skirmish in an increasingly heated war between states for jobs in a competitive industrial marketplace.
Across the nation, state and local governments spend massive amounts of money every year trying to win over companies. Sometimes, experts say, states reach high-profile deals that cost governments more in the long run than they benefit.
In Indiana, officials agreed to hand $7 million in tax breaks to Carrier’s parent company, United Technologies, over the next 10 years in exchange for keeping a furnace plant open in Indianapolis. Company officials had planned to move about 800 jobs to Mexico.
Another 300 jobs in the company’s research and headquarters arms, which were not scheduled to go to Mexico, will stay in Indianapolis, according to details of the plan first reported by The Wall Street Journal.
Such a giveaway is a drop in the bucket in the fierce competition for jobs.... And?
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-12-01 16:12:47
Not really. Its legal there, isn't legal here. Nothing subjective about that. Still subjective.
You are basing the "betterment" on the legality aspect. Just because you think that it's better to be legal doesn't mean that we all agree. If we all agree, wouldn't it be legal in Texas? Nope. Parts of the criminal justice system are heavily invested in keeping weed illegal. And not just the for profit parts.
And I will agree that Starbucks is utter crap, and SBC barely acceptable, they are both trading on a rep that neither approaches, let alone lives up to. If it's illegal in a state, it's illegal.
If it's legal, and the justice system is trying to prosecute it, then they will automatically lose....
[+]
Lakshmi.Flavin
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2016-12-01 16:15:28
If this is what you use as an example to show critical thinking then I'd venture to say you don't know what critical thinking is...
Pretty much the opposite of anything you post. But seriously, you bore me. Come back when you can make a reply that actually deals with substance more than it does with the person who posted something that triggered you. It seems you like to use that trigger word more than the liberals you complain about all the time use it... but yeah it's always nice when you guys claim the high ground then just toss out insults... it's always amusing at least...
just to be clear too... is substance just repeating liberals doubling down on stupid or trying to call me out on something cuz that's all you ever seem to do... lol...
Lakshmi.Flavin
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2016-12-01 16:18:33
If this is what you use as an example to show critical thinking then I'd venture to say you don't know what critical thinking is...
Pretty much the opposite of anything you post. But seriously, you bore me. Come back when you can make a reply that actually deals with substance more than it does with the person who posted something that triggered you. That's pretty much why you should ignore him, and only respond to bait him into making more of his outlandish posts. You still haven't responded to my post a couple of pages ago when you were praising trump for giving incentives away to only lose 55% of the carrier jobs in Indiana plants... you guys don't want to have an actual discussion... just claim you won and tell us all about how liberals are ruining everything lol... well at least we know you're just out there trying to bait me now...
Cerberus.Pleebo
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2016-12-01 16:20:15
All I can see is someone salty about Obama's presidency trying to link gibberish together to make a point that doesn't exist.
it just might be the dumbest thing I have ever read....
and I read the fracking debate where someone suggested falling off a ladder could cause an earthquake. Oh that ***was great! Brace yourself when the garbage trucks come rumbling by!!!
I had to find the source to figure out the inside joke here. I thought it was fairly straightforward what he meant, even if it wasn't the best example. I guess maintaining the joke is more important than understanding the context, though. the argument you want to white knight for?
[+]
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-12-01 16:29:17
It seems you like to use that trigger word more than the liberals you complain about all the time use it...
I'm convinced that you just make up crap and don't have a clue what I actually post. Please, find some examples to back up your claim, Mr. I-Know-Ravael-So-Well.
All I can see is someone salty about Obama's presidency trying to link gibberish together to make a point that doesn't exist.
it just might be the dumbest thing I have ever read....
and I read the fracking debate where someone suggested falling off a ladder could cause an earthquake. Oh that ***was great! Brace yourself when the garbage trucks come rumbling by!!!
I had to find the source to figure out the inside joke here. I thought it was fairly straightforward what he meant, even if it wasn't the best example. I guess maintaining the joke is more important than understanding the context, though. the argument you want to white knight for?
Spoilers are still broken, FYI. But yeah, not touching that one. I never said they were all valid arguments.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-12-01 16:32:52
Mr. I-Know-Ravael-So-Well. Hi Mr. I-Know-Ravael-So-Well, how are you doing today?
[+]
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-12-01 16:33:42
It seems you like to use that trigger word more than the liberals you complain about all the time use it...
I'm convinced that you just make up crap and don't have a clue what I actually post. Please, find some examples to back up your claim, Mr. I-Know-Ravael-So-Well.
All I can see is someone salty about Obama's presidency trying to link gibberish together to make a point that doesn't exist.
it just might be the dumbest thing I have ever read....
and I read the fracking debate where someone suggested falling off a ladder could cause an earthquake. Oh that ***was great! Brace yourself when the garbage trucks come rumbling by!!!
I had to find the source to figure out the inside joke here. I thought it was fairly straightforward what he meant, even if it wasn't the best example. I guess maintaining the joke is more important than understanding the context, though. the argument you want to white knight for?
Spoilers are still broken, FYI. But yeah, not touching that one. I never said they were all valid arguments. Pleebo is just being like Flavin, just trying to stir ***up.
By eliroo 2016-12-01 16:35:18
Not really. Its legal there, isn't legal here. Nothing subjective about that. Still subjective.
You are basing the "betterment" on the legality aspect. Just because you think that it's better to be legal doesn't mean that we all agree. If we all agree, wouldn't it be legal in Texas? Nope. Parts of the criminal justice system are heavily invested in keeping weed illegal. And not just the for profit parts.
And I will agree that Starbucks is utter crap, and SBC barely acceptable, they are both trading on a rep that neither approaches, let alone lives up to. If it's illegal in a state, it's illegal.
If it's legal, and the justice system is trying to prosecute it, then they will automatically lose....
The fact its legal is where they are better. Are you really arguing that?
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-12-01 16:37:07
If this is what you use as an example to show critical thinking then I'd venture to say you don't know what critical thinking is...
Pretty much the opposite of anything you post. But seriously, you bore me. Come back when you can make a reply that actually deals with substance more than it does with the person who posted something that triggered you. That's pretty much why you should ignore him, and only respond to bait him into making more of his outlandish posts. You still haven't responded to my post a couple of pages ago when you were praising trump for giving incentives away to only lose 55% of the carrier jobs in Indiana plants... you guys don't want to have an actual discussion... just claim you won and tell us all about how liberals are ruining everything lol... well at least we know you're just out there trying to bait me now... Because I was having the same argument with everyone else. I figured you would have caught on, but I guess you want some KN special attention.
Fine, here you go!
Same answer as everyone else: Would you rather have zero jobs or half of the jobs being exported saved? You can't force businesses to stay in the US, just like you can't force people into doing your own bidding.
Unless, of course, you still think we are living in pre-Civil War ages.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-12-01 16:39:40
Not really. Its legal there, isn't legal here. Nothing subjective about that. Still subjective.
You are basing the "betterment" on the legality aspect. Just because you think that it's better to be legal doesn't mean that we all agree. If we all agree, wouldn't it be legal in Texas? Nope. Parts of the criminal justice system are heavily invested in keeping weed illegal. And not just the for profit parts.
And I will agree that Starbucks is utter crap, and SBC barely acceptable, they are both trading on a rep that neither approaches, let alone lives up to. If it's illegal in a state, it's illegal.
If it's legal, and the justice system is trying to prosecute it, then they will automatically lose....
The fact its legal is where they are better. Are you really arguing that? I'm asking for a non-suggestive example.
You may think that, because WA has legal weed and TX doesn't means that WA is better, while I can say the same argument in reverse, meaning I think that because it's illegal in TX, that makes TX better.
Which is why I wanted a non-suggestive example. Something we can both agree would be the absolute (or near absolute) qualifications of which state is better at an example.
By eliroo 2016-12-01 16:40:45
Not really. Its legal there, isn't legal here. Nothing subjective about that. Still subjective.
You are basing the "betterment" on the legality aspect. Just because you think that it's better to be legal doesn't mean that we all agree. If we all agree, wouldn't it be legal in Texas? Nope. Parts of the criminal justice system are heavily invested in keeping weed illegal. And not just the for profit parts.
And I will agree that Starbucks is utter crap, and SBC barely acceptable, they are both trading on a rep that neither approaches, let alone lives up to. If it's illegal in a state, it's illegal.
If it's legal, and the justice system is trying to prosecute it, then they will automatically lose....
The fact its legal is where they are better. Are you really arguing that? I'm asking for a non-suggestive example.
You may think that, because WA has legal weed and TX doesn't means that WA is better, while I can say the same argument in reverse, meaning I think that because it's illegal in TX, that makes TX better.
Which is why I wanted a non-suggestive example. Something we can both agree would be the absolute (or near absolute) qualifications of which state is better at an example.
What was your qualification that made Texas better?
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-12-01 16:46:46
Not really. Its legal there, isn't legal here. Nothing subjective about that. Still subjective.
You are basing the "betterment" on the legality aspect. Just because you think that it's better to be legal doesn't mean that we all agree. If we all agree, wouldn't it be legal in Texas? Nope. Parts of the criminal justice system are heavily invested in keeping weed illegal. And not just the for profit parts.
And I will agree that Starbucks is utter crap, and SBC barely acceptable, they are both trading on a rep that neither approaches, let alone lives up to. If it's illegal in a state, it's illegal.
If it's legal, and the justice system is trying to prosecute it, then they will automatically lose....
The fact its legal is where they are better. Are you really arguing that? I'm asking for a non-suggestive example.
You may think that, because WA has legal weed and TX doesn't means that WA is better, while I can say the same argument in reverse, meaning I think that because it's illegal in TX, that makes TX better.
Which is why I wanted a non-suggestive example. Something we can both agree would be the absolute (or near absolute) qualifications of which state is better at an example.
What was your qualification that made Texas better? Social assistance in terms of money collected, money outlaid, and overall poverty rating comparing the two states. Money collected qualification means from both public and private sources. Money outlaid meaning amount actually spent on combating poverty vs. administration costs (and taxes associated). Poverty rating meaning various qualifications, which includes (but not limited to) quality of care, poverty rate, and utilization of sources linked to poverty.
I didn't say (directly) that Texas is better. That's a question at looking at data.
However, data is easily obtained, and we can argue about what sort of determination based on which is better and should hold more weight.
By eliroo 2016-12-01 16:55:09
Ok then:
2014 Numbers
U.S State poverty rate:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_poverty_rate
WA is 19
TX is 38
A ~4% difference between the two in terms of poverty rate.
Next up Income inequality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_Gini_coefficient
WA is 16
TX is 43
WA is better in those areas
Garuda.Chanti
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11335
By Garuda.Chanti 2016-12-01 16:58:59
Eli, that depends on which side of the economic fence you live on.
By eliroo 2016-12-01 17:00:03
Garuda.Chanti
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11335
By Garuda.Chanti 2016-12-01 17:00:14
Good article on the costs and benifits of corporate welfare.
Carrier deal part of growing trend of corporate tax giveaways
The Hill
Openers:
Quote: President-elect Donald Trump on Thursday traveled to Indiana to announce a deal to keep about 1,000 furnace manufacturing jobs in the state.
The deal would not have been possible without Vice President-elect Mike Pence, the state’s outgoing governor, and it resolves just one skirmish in an increasingly heated war between states for jobs in a competitive industrial marketplace.
Across the nation, state and local governments spend massive amounts of money every year trying to win over companies. Sometimes, experts say, states reach high-profile deals that cost governments more in the long run than they benefit.
In Indiana, officials agreed to hand $7 million in tax breaks to Carrier’s parent company, United Technologies, over the next 10 years in exchange for keeping a furnace plant open in Indianapolis. Company officials had planned to move about 800 jobs to Mexico.
Another 300 jobs in the company’s research and headquarters arms, which were not scheduled to go to Mexico, will stay in Indianapolis, according to details of the plan first reported by The Wall Street Journal.
Such a giveaway is a drop in the bucket in the fierce competition for jobs.... And? And keep reading.
By fonewear 2016-12-01 17:05:49
Good article on the costs and benifits of corporate welfare.
Carrier deal part of growing trend of corporate tax giveaways
The Hill
Openers:
Quote: President-elect Donald Trump on Thursday traveled to Indiana to announce a deal to keep about 1,000 furnace manufacturing jobs in the state.
The deal would not have been possible without Vice President-elect Mike Pence, the state’s outgoing governor, and it resolves just one skirmish in an increasingly heated war between states for jobs in a competitive industrial marketplace.
Across the nation, state and local governments spend massive amounts of money every year trying to win over companies. Sometimes, experts say, states reach high-profile deals that cost governments more in the long run than they benefit.
In Indiana, officials agreed to hand $7 million in tax breaks to Carrier’s parent company, United Technologies, over the next 10 years in exchange for keeping a furnace plant open in Indianapolis. Company officials had planned to move about 800 jobs to Mexico.
Another 300 jobs in the company’s research and headquarters arms, which were not scheduled to go to Mexico, will stay in Indianapolis, according to details of the plan first reported by The Wall Street Journal.
Such a giveaway is a drop in the bucket in the fierce competition for jobs.... And? And keep reading.
Keep reading that means I would have to start !
[+]
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-12-01 17:18:27
Good article on the costs and benifits of corporate welfare.
Carrier deal part of growing trend of corporate tax giveaways
The Hill
Openers:
Quote: President-elect Donald Trump on Thursday traveled to Indiana to announce a deal to keep about 1,000 furnace manufacturing jobs in the state.
The deal would not have been possible without Vice President-elect Mike Pence, the state’s outgoing governor, and it resolves just one skirmish in an increasingly heated war between states for jobs in a competitive industrial marketplace.
Across the nation, state and local governments spend massive amounts of money every year trying to win over companies. Sometimes, experts say, states reach high-profile deals that cost governments more in the long run than they benefit.
In Indiana, officials agreed to hand $7 million in tax breaks to Carrier’s parent company, United Technologies, over the next 10 years in exchange for keeping a furnace plant open in Indianapolis. Company officials had planned to move about 800 jobs to Mexico.
Another 300 jobs in the company’s research and headquarters arms, which were not scheduled to go to Mexico, will stay in Indianapolis, according to details of the plan first reported by The Wall Street Journal.
Such a giveaway is a drop in the bucket in the fierce competition for jobs.... And? And keep reading.
Keep reading that means I would have to start !
We'll start you off with the basics.
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