Random Arguments & Strawmen #15

What possible alternative do you see?

Maybe it's just a Pennsylvania thing but I have never see a private school with tuition accessible to the middle-to-lower class that was better than a public school.

Sure, if you've got $40k/yr to blow on a school like Trump's little *** trophy, fine.

But the *** awful standards of education -- not to mention ideology -- in charter schools I've heard first-hand reports of are terrible.

Oh, Arizona, too. My brother attended a charter school out there.

It was pretty terrible. Really, really hardcore Koch brothers ideology. They had to memorize these bizarre *** quasi-religious capitalistic dogma rules.

Pushing Private schools on everyone sounds like a great idea to push political ideologies onto young kids.

Breed em Liberal or Conservative while they are young!

Yeah. My brother went to one that was hardcore Tea Party dogma. He went there because when he was younger he was actually able to get more one-on-one attention he needed, and my dad kept him there because it was the best for him socially, but as he got older he really had some problems because of the weird *** ***they taught. Mostly he learned to just play along until he graduated, but that's still *** up.

This would hold more weight if public schools were anything more then free daycare. Also the federal government doesn't' fund the school systems, that's the state government which Trump isn't involved in. States leverage property tax on their citizens and use that money to fund their schools and roads. What the DoE does is take money from the taxpayers, pocket it's own share, then use the rest to offer "Educational Programs" to any school, provided the school does exactly what the DOE demands them to do. They've used this as a way to control local public schools, which are always after more funding. The DOE system started off as a good idea, offer educational programs to poor schools in poor states and has morphed into this liberal progressive system which is attempting to take over schools from the states. Private schools side step the whole DOE tyranny and follow their own syllabus and standards, which is why they are so much better, of course because they aren't taking DOE funding they need to charge the parents to cover expenses.

That's actually what the whole voucher / charter system was about, to allow schools who aren't under DOE control to accept students who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford them. Progressives went ape ***over that as it bypass's their control over the next generation of progressive voters.

First it starts with making him the head of Celebrity Apprentice. Until that happens the grooming process hasn't begu...

Ah! Found it!

Here there be *** up ***.

Turn every post into propaganda. No one will notice.

I concede that education needs serious reform and the DOE has serious problems.

I just don't think charter schools being allowed free reign is the answer because they're just basically licensed to indoctrinate however they want, which is just the mirror image of your complaint about progressiveness being pushed in public schools.

Which is totally about to happen when DeVos takes the reigns as Secretary of Education.

Charter Schools are potentially great in theory but tend to be bad in practice. Cool things about Charter Schools, Principals are not required to be certified administrators. Teachers don't need state certification. Don't get me wrong most require them for hire but they're not legally required like they are in public education.

Cool things you learn when you work with your states charter board.

I know the few private schools back in my home neck of the woods are all Catholic schools and they play pretty fast and loose with this.

Ain't nothing wrong with that brofessor!

Well right now there is a Life or Death struggle between Socialist Progressives attempting to establish a central all powerful super government and Religious Conservatives who want a Theocracy. Fiscal conservatives / social Liberals get caught in the middle and are forced to ally with ideological zealots. Because of this atmosphere everything becomes about ideology, the DoE is infested with the former super liberals and practically everything they touch comes with the requirement to indoctrinate children into Communist / Socialist ideology. State governments really hated this idea and have pushed back.

For every crazy religious charter school there are several normal non-religious ones. Charter schools are like business's, they rely on customers in order to succeed and those customers are parents. Because of this open market approach each charter school is incentivized to attract as many parents as possible. This piss's progressives off because they can't dictate to parents what their children learn and thus can't create more "right think / new speech / real fact" voters from their children. If a kid is going to a super religious school it's because their parents chose that and chose it over a public school. Regardless if you personally agree with the parent, it's not your choice.

Something that both Progressives and Religious Conservatives have in common, they both desire to take away free choice from people and limit people to only the options that agree with their ideology. Taking away free choice like that is fundamentally wrong. Forcing parents to have their kids institutionalized and taught by only "Liberal Certified Education" is just as bad as forcing parents to have the kids in the first place.

Darwin and the bigbang are so oppressive. Won't somebody think of the children??

No. They are not forced. This is a misrepresentation of your choices. I understand why you say this and perhaps I'm being too ideological and/or picking at semantics, but you really are not forced to 'side' with anyone.


Inversely...well, this is a case where parents are forced to pick the lesser of two evils, especially if they're somewhat poor. "Deal with religious and political indoctrination or send my child to a public school that doesn't receive the funds to give my child the educational environment he needs?" My brother had some serious problems when he was little and most public schools cannot handle special needs children well, especially those who have too many problems for regular placement, but not enough/the wrong kind for special education.


We are ultimately in agreement about this.

I did think of the children. Which is why I'm not having them.

Psst

"Everyone gets a trophy for participation", "Genderbread person" and LGTBQ (and other letters that are required to be added on demand if someone feels left out). Gets even crazier when you realize that progressive teachers actively push their own ideology into classroom material and will give kids bad grades or flunk them entirely if they dare to disagree. I've known several parents who pulled their kids from public school over progressive teachers deciding it's their job to indoctrinate their students in the Politically Correct ideology.

In theory school should be an ideology free environment or close enough to it, unfortunately progressive teachers rarely see it that way. The Ends justifies the Means.

That's an appeal to special circumstance. When dealing with policy decisions we use the general population and not special needs children who should be going to their own school or otherwise helped. That being said, a good half of children labeled "special needs" don't have any problem and are just active learners instead of passive learners. Big problem with progressive education is that it requires the children be good at sitting down and memorizing whatever the teach instructs them to memory. That doesn't work very well, if at all, for active learners who need to be actively engaged in the material for their minds to deem it worthy of studying. Most of them end up becoming autodidacts and treat school as a place they have to go in order to make other people happy while they do their real learning in their own free time. I know all this firsthand.

More made up claims.

Does anyone know what this is? Does anyone care?

And what will Private school vouchers do to fix that? This is that it will get worse because ALL of the teachers will be on the same page.

Also how do you suggest fixing the way that teachers are teaching their students?

It's called "Common Core" and it's what gave us that horrible math.

Let them teach subjects and not according to standardized testing.

Not saying to get rid of testing, but let the teachers teach the subject and not according to what test questions will be.

I'm not sure what schools are teaching now but I learned the arguments for and against both of these in my school (In texas, during the mid-2000s). They didn't dispute or even mention the 5000 year old creationist which I think they should have. I'm personally Christian but there is no biblical implication that suggests why the big bang or Darwin's theories are not real.

Funny enough, I learned math the "Old way" but adapted it and did something very similar to the new way. At least making the 30+16. It is a lot easier to process that in my head then the "carry the one" thingy.

It has nothing to do with social ideology.

So how does this fix the problem that Charter schools are supposed to fix?

But it's a talking point that's appealing to the uninformed on the subject. Much like the other one referencing teaching to the test; which interestingly enough, conflicts with the principle ideology of common cores math curriculum.

I don't think you've been in a school in a very long time sav or know anything about the actual problems being faced... you're pretty delusional across the board on every post so far...

Also... liberals don't really care about charter schools in general... it's mostly a union buster issue...

The first way was too direct and straight forward, we want to encourage non-linear thinking that doesn't rely on observation and definition which is against the post-modern new-think ideals.

As sarcastic as that sounds, it's actually the reason they used wacky methods to teach math. "Common Core" was created by Liberal Professors who had zero teaching experience and instead were attempting to implement their own new thinking ideology starting at the youngest age possible, to prevent parents from corrupting children with old modernist thinking ways. On the "Common Core" approval and review boards there was exactly one teacher, she taught kindergarten and was overruled every time she pointed out the methods wouldn't be realistically feasible for K-12 education.

So yeah CC was purposefully designed to be that way as it's Progressive ideology packed into teaching standards. You should see the ***they teach involving WWII, the cold war and what they leave out. The math is by far the least crazy part of that package. Again decent idea on paper, common standards and all, the problem was ideologically driven individuals deciding it's a good way to bring about "National Social Change". Be extremely careful when anyone of a liberal slant use's the world "experts" or "professionals". Usually there is a hidden "of approved ideology" attached to the end of the sentence.