SImon, I agree with you fully, If you can get a mage to cure you, or if your using Cata then what you are saying is true and probably the best way to handle this.
While I agree your scenario is the best way to approach this delima, I just don't see it as practical for the majority as you have no control over another player and I dont want to build sets assuming that you do. This also removing the mage requires you to use cata which is not always the case, lot of drks dont use apoc, and you may not always want to use cata as your ws. The set needs to be generic enough that drks of all weapons can use it.
I am not even sure the logic I would have to add to a lua to lock, unlock etc depending on so many variables for cata. I know its is possible but I also know that if I were to use a slott lock for the feet and for whatever reason drain didnt immediately happen after cata then we have an issue. It would ruin your xhit, you would take increased dmg from your locked max hp (means less actual drain defeating the purpose). You also run into the issue of what happens if you use DS/NV outside of battle and you start a fight with drain3?
To me there is just to many 'if' scenarios and to be honest it just doesnt seem worth the hassel when the above set will always produce a 1:1 ratio of hp drained to dmg from drain (w/ misanthropy) and requires no specific weapon, no speficic action take prior to the drain, no specific group setup, no specific actions from another player, no crazy lua logic to know if your endgaged/not/hp capped/idle/ja active/tp level/etc and no manual locking of gear slotts and unlocking them.
if you have your lua with this built in please post it as it would be a huge service to the drk community.
As far as my dmg concern on drain goes, I have misanthropy and not SU5, but I own everything else, and that 5 potency wouldnt make a huge difference anyhow since I dont have the -hp to overcome the 130 the weapon gives (reason for the post, to figure out where you could shave the hp and not reduce anything else). Plus even if you had full hp prior to swaping to drain set, you would still need to overcome that now 130 hp extra even with locked Ratri feet. I do not have O sash yet, but I also am normally not casting at the range where it would make a huge difference over the potency+5, It obviously can though and in my lua if I am close enough to the mob I would use o sash if I had it. So I am unsure of why your seeing such higher numbers? Maybe your taking the max drains you have seen and using that as an avg? or maybe you run with pocket geos? I honestly don't know. I dont think I have ever seen anything close to a 4k drain on Omen bosses for example, I also dont even see that on trash mobs in dyna d often. I also can drain a lv1 bunny outside sandy and I am no where near 4.5k on the actual drain and nothing gets weaker than that. Maybe a mob that takes double magic dmg?
High End Sets Advice/Suggestions/Ideas/LUA
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High End Sets Advice/Suggestions/Ideas/LUA
Asura.Azagarth said: » SImon, I agree with you fully, If you can get a mage to cure you, or if your using Cata then what you are saying is true and probably the best way to handle this. While I agree your scenario is the best way to approach this delima, I just don't see it as practical for the majority as you have no control over another player and I dont want to build sets assuming that you do. This also removing the mage requires you to use cata which is not always the case, lot of drks dont use apoc, and you may not always want to use cata as your ws. The set needs to be generic enough that drks of all weapons can use it. I am not even sure the logic I would have to add to a lua to lock, unlock etc depending on so many variables for cata. I know its is possible but I also know that if I were to use a slott lock for the feet and for whatever reason drain didnt immediately happen after cata then we have an issue. It would ruin your xhit, you would take increased dmg from your locked max hp (means less actual drain defeating the purpose). You also run into the issue of what happens if you use DS/NV outside of battle and you start a fight with drain3? To me there is just to many 'if' scenarios and to be honest it just doesnt seem worth the hassel when the above set will always produce a 1:1 ratio of hp drained to dmg from drain (w/ misanthropy) and requires no specific weapon, no speficic action take prior to the drain, no specific group setup, no specific actions from another player, no crazy lua logic to know if your endgaged/not/hp capped/idle/ja active/tp level/etc and no manual locking of gear slotts and unlocking them. if you have your lua with this built in please post it as it would be a huge service to the drk community. As far as my dmg concern on drain goes, I have misanthropy and not SU5, but I own everything else, and that 5 potency wouldnt make a huge difference anyhow since I dont have the -hp to overcome the 130 the weapon gives (reason for the post, to figure out where you could shave the hp and not reduce anything else). Plus even if you had full hp prior to swaping to drain set, you would still need to overcome that now 130 hp extra even with locked Ratri feet. I do not have O sash yet, but I also am normally not casting at the range where it would make a huge difference over the potency+5, It obviously can though and in my lua if I am close enough to the mob I would use o sash if I had it. So I am unsure of why your seeing such higher numbers? Maybe your taking the max drains you have seen and using that as an avg? or maybe you run with pocket geos? I honestly don't know. I dont think I have ever seen anything close to a 4k drain on Omen bosses for example, I also dont even see that on trash mobs in dyna d often. I also can drain a lv1 bunny outside sandy and I am no where near 4.5k on the actual drain and nothing gets weaker than that. Maybe a mob that takes double magic dmg? You have a fair concern. The potency of Drain 3 is a random amount between 50% and 100% of your Drain Potency / Dark Magic Skill. (I couldn't find a more specific relationship, but this is on BGWiki). You're right that HP swings will consume of your Drain'ed HP and ultimate lower your new Max. HP. In my humble opinion, a 25% increase in duration can be huge, 1 minute or more. I tend to prefer longer max HP so I use both Ratri Feet +1 AND the SU5 weapon in my Drain Potency set. Over the course of many fights, your drains will be more effective (most of HP absorbed gets applied as max HP), but mine will last longer and ocassionally even be higher (assuming all things equal). Felgarr said: » You're right that HP swings will consume of your Drain'ed HP and ultimate lower your new Max. HP. In my humble opinion, a 25% increase in duration can be huge, 1 minute or more. I tend to prefer longer max HP so I use both Ratri Feet +1 AND the SU5 weapon in my Drain Potency set. So you spent 200m on a SU5 weapon to get a 5% boost, which after the 130 hp less you actally drain is probably 100hp~ more max. and potentialy less on your avg no mb drains. Yet these simple changes that produce upwards to 10x more hp returns than a 200m weapon seem like a bad idea? You have to understand how illogical this sounds, right? Also Ratri+1 gives you only 45 sec extra, and you only need 30 sec to full time (reason NQ is enough to cap timers). And like I had written prior this only matters if a fight is over 9 mins in practical application, and events where you have idle time, it will be nearly identical to max duration for the intended purpose of what HP boost does. I would gladly give up a less than 1 min window every 10 mins, to ensure every 9 of those 10 mins I am rocking 700hp more with my current set.... seems like a no brainer trade off to me. Again this is only my opinion and we can disagree which is ok :D Asura.Azagarth said: » Felgarr said: » You're right that HP swings will consume of your Drain'ed HP and ultimate lower your new Max. HP. In my humble opinion, a 25% increase in duration can be huge, 1 minute or more. I tend to prefer longer max HP so I use both Ratri Feet +1 AND the SU5 weapon in my Drain Potency set. So you spent 200m on a SU5 weapon to get a 5% boost, which after the 130 hp less you actally drain is probably 100hp~ more max. and potentialy less on your avg no mb drains. Yet these simple changes that produce upwards to 10x more hp returns than a 200m weapon seem like a bad idea? You have to understand how illogical this sounds, right? Also Ratri+1 gives you only 45 sec extra, and you only need 30 sec to full time (reason NQ is enough to cap timers). And like I had written prior this only matters if a fight is over 9 mins in practical application, and events where you have idle time, it will be nearly identical to max duration for the intended purpose of what HP boost does. I would gladly give up a less than 1 min window every 10 mins, to ensure every 9 of those 10 mins I am rocking 700hp more with my current set.... seems like a no brainer trade off to me. Again this is only my opinion and we can disagree which is ok :D Could you explain your position more clearly? If I understand correctly, I think you're trying to reduce HP swing from FC to DrainPotency set, right? And your thinking that this will allow more of your drained HP to go to your Max HP? (I'll exclude MBs here, but I try to aim for Darkness MB for Drain 3 wherever possible) Is this correct? Am I missing anything else in your viewpoint? It is a valid concern and I may need to add more HP in my FC set when casting Drain 3. You need to look at your tp set max hp, for example mine is 2071 in my apoc 4 hit set which is my default go to set, and in my hybrid build its a bit over 2300. Then you need to look at your FC set, mine is 2200~.
This give you your floors, which for me is 2071 since I pack in hp on my fc set (I still maintain 80 fc) to try to mimic my hybrids max hp since being in hybrid set means FC is the limiting factor of hp lost on casting. This concept is very familiar if you have a tank job, It just happens that on drk it takes very little thought and planning. So now you know that if you are tping, and you cast drain3 your floor will be 2071, which means if your drain3 set has 2758 which it would in my case if I dont use the -hp swaps as I mentioned (grip-20, earring-60) then you will be at 2071/2758 hp, which means when your drain goes off you will FIRST heal your 687 hp. It like giving yourself -687 dmg on your cast (not actual dmg). IF I make the changes as mentioned (grip-20, ear-60, feet) then I end up at 2071/2188 during my drain which means only the first 117 hp is lost. And if I do not have SU5 then im at 2058hp (can use ambusace grip instead for more macc etc and be only 7 hp positive) and thus under my hp I need to be. Which is why I said with misanthropy the set I posted is the current best set overall. Its not Bis duration or potency, but its the best of both worlds, high potency and near enough to capped recast that it does not affect me in real gameplay as of now. This is why I would deem it BiS and use a toggle for potency and duration like I have now. To me this is a huge deal. In an event like Omen, you can generally only drain3 a boss for 2k-2500 non resisted. That means im only getting like 1500-2000 hp, by decreasing my hp on drain3 cast I increasing my effective drain rate by around 1/3 give or take. This is a huge deal. To put this in context you spent 200m to gain <100hp on your drains and have them be a bit more accurate over using misanthropy, so this change should be minimum 1.5 billion worth of increase :D (a little joke if my sarcasim doesnt come through). Hope this helps understand better. I use drain3 to avoid deaths, the application of 687 more hp to me is huge, this can easily be the difference of dying to a mijin, strong aoe, etc. Dead dd des no dps, and just icing on the cake, that 687 hp does translate to dmg too. Dont forget dread spikes will be more potent, Soul eater will do more, delirium will be easier to toggle dmg+ build and survive, etc. They are all small reason and thats why I do not mention it. You also get the benefit if you are tanking to have less enm decay from hits, and you also help your whm mp pool since cures will max out more often which allows them to gain more mp. This is all so small but I feel the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. Asura.Azagarth said: » You need to look at your tp set max hp, for example mine is 2071 in my apoc 4 hit set which is my default go to set, and in my hybrid build its a bit over 2300. Then you need to look at your FC set, mine is 2200~. This give you your floors, which for me is 2071 since I pack in hp on my fc set (I still maintain 80 fc) to try to mimic my hybrids max hp since being in hybrid set means FC is the limiting factor of hp lost on casting. This concept is very familiar if you have a tank job, It just happens that on drk it takes very little thought and planning. So now you know that if you are tping, and you cast drain3 your floor will be 2071, which means if your drain3 set has 2758 which it would in my case if I dont use the -hp swaps as I mentioned (grip-20, earring-60) then you will be at 2071/2758 hp, which means when your drain goes off you will FIRST heal your 687 hp. It like giving yourself -687 dmg on your cast (not actual dmg). IF I make the changes as mentioned (grip-20, ear-60, feet) then I end up at 2071/2188 during my drain which means only the first 117 hp is lost. And if I do not have SU5 then im at 2058hp (can use ambusace grip instead for more macc etc and be only 7 hp positive) and thus under my hp I need to be. Which is why I said with misanthropy the set I posted is the current best set overall. Its not Bis duration or potency, but its the best of both worlds, high potency and near enough to capped recast that it does not affect me in real gameplay as of now. This is why I would deem it BiS and use a toggle for potency and duration like I have now. To me this is a huge deal. In an event like Omen, you can generally only drain3 a boss for 2k-2500 non resisted. That means im only getting like 1500-2000 hp, by decreasing my hp on drain3 cast I increasing my effective drain rate by around 1/3 give or take. This is a huge deal. To put this in context you spent 200m to gain <100hp on your drains and have them be a bit more accurate over using misanthropy, so this change should be minimum 1.5 billion worth of increase :D (a little joke if my sarcasim doesnt come through). Hope this helps understand better. I use drain3 to avoid deaths, the application of 687 more hp to me is huge, this can easily be the difference of dying to a mijin, strong aoe, etc. Dead dd des no dps, and just icing on the cake, that 687 hp does translate to dmg too. Dont forget dread spikes will be more potent, Soul eater will do more, delirium will be easier to toggle dmg+ build and survive, etc. They are all small reason and thats why I do not mention it. You also get the benefit if you are tanking to have less enm decay from hits, and you also help your whm mp pool since cures will max out more often which allows them to gain more mp. This is all so small but I feel the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. I don't understand what you mean by LOST? What do you mean by LOST in your -687 and -117 HP examples? If your Drain3 for 2500 but you are -700 HP, you're saying you lose 700 dmg....but how? I could be wrong but I'm not sure your how your difference in HP affects DMG. I only know that Drain amount beyond your HP cap affects your new Maximum HP. So casting Drain3 in -700HP (your floors) gets you a potentially higher Max HP when Drain 3 completes, right? I agree with you on this, if that's what you're saying ....but I don't think your current HP affects damage dealt by Drain...or am I wrong? Felgarr said: » Asura.Azagarth said: » You need to look at your tp set max hp, for example mine is 2071 in my apoc 4 hit set which is my default go to set, and in my hybrid build its a bit over 2300. Then you need to look at your FC set, mine is 2200~. This give you your floors, which for me is 2071 since I pack in hp on my fc set (I still maintain 80 fc) to try to mimic my hybrids max hp since being in hybrid set means FC is the limiting factor of hp lost on casting. This concept is very familiar if you have a tank job, It just happens that on drk it takes very little thought and planning. So now you know that if you are tping, and you cast drain3 your floor will be 2071, which means if your drain3 set has 2758 which it would in my case if I dont use the -hp swaps as I mentioned (grip-20, earring-60) then you will be at 2071/2758 hp, which means when your drain goes off you will FIRST heal your 687 hp. It like giving yourself -687 dmg on your cast (not actual dmg). IF I make the changes as mentioned (grip-20, ear-60, feet) then I end up at 2071/2188 during my drain which means only the first 117 hp is lost. And if I do not have SU5 then im at 2058hp (can use ambusace grip instead for more macc etc and be only 7 hp positive) and thus under my hp I need to be. Which is why I said with misanthropy the set I posted is the current best set overall. Its not Bis duration or potency, but its the best of both worlds, high potency and near enough to capped recast that it does not affect me in real gameplay as of now. This is why I would deem it BiS and use a toggle for potency and duration like I have now. To me this is a huge deal. In an event like Omen, you can generally only drain3 a boss for 2k-2500 non resisted. That means im only getting like 1500-2000 hp, by decreasing my hp on drain3 cast I increasing my effective drain rate by around 1/3 give or take. This is a huge deal. To put this in context you spent 200m to gain <100hp on your drains and have them be a bit more accurate over using misanthropy, so this change should be minimum 1.5 billion worth of increase :D (a little joke if my sarcasim doesnt come through). Hope this helps understand better. I use drain3 to avoid deaths, the application of 687 more hp to me is huge, this can easily be the difference of dying to a mijin, strong aoe, etc. Dead dd des no dps, and just icing on the cake, that 687 hp does translate to dmg too. Dont forget dread spikes will be more potent, Soul eater will do more, delirium will be easier to toggle dmg+ build and survive, etc. They are all small reason and thats why I do not mention it. You also get the benefit if you are tanking to have less enm decay from hits, and you also help your whm mp pool since cures will max out more often which allows them to gain more mp. This is all so small but I feel the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. I don't understand what you mean by LOST? What do you mean by LOST in your -687 and -117 HP examples? If your Drain3 for 2500 but you are -700 HP, you're saying you lose 700 dmg....but how? I could be wrong but I'm not sure your how your difference in HP affects DMG. I only know that Drain amount beyond your HP cap affects your new Maximum HP. So casting Drain3 in -700HP (your floors) gets you a potentially higher Max HP when Drain 3 completes, right? I agree with you on this, if that's what you're saying ....but I don't think your current HP affects damage dealt by Drain...or am I wrong? He means that with 2070/2770HP (using simpler rounded up numbers sorry), 700hp goes to heal you to full hp, 1800 goes above your max hp. That 1800 will now be your extra HP for another 5min, so if you drop your set back to 2100 in TP set your max HP will be 3900. Now if you make 2500 drain with 2070/2170HP, 100 will goes to heal you and 2400 will be your extra HP. If you will go down to your 2100 TP set, you will have 4500 max hp.
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Asura.Azagarth said: » I dont think I have ever seen anything close to a 4k drain on Omen bosses for example Ok this is the worst case scenario for Drain and obviously you wont see 4k Drain on them, because they have massive SDT to darkness and you are guaranteed to be resisted on drain, unless you have Run with Rayke there or you magic bursting. EDIT: On the other hand Dynamis is best case scenario lol. I remember getting up to like 7500 max HP in Dynamis without Bursting. Oh and Geo support does nothing for Drain potency. Omen bosses is where duration comes into play. I like to drain 3 one of the last few mobs before going up to the boss. If your group isn't sluggish on buffs you can keep a high potency drain 3 on you for most or all of the fight.
Asura.Friedrik said: » Omen bosses is where duration comes into play. I like to drain 3 one of the last few mobs before going up to the boss. If your group isn't sluggish on buffs you can keep a high potency drain 3 on you for most or all of the fight. The mystical question indeed.
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Guess my group is sluggish then.... Also my group tends to aoe the floors so getting a MB on last floor before boss is fairly hard and does not really pertain to this set as you should always burst in Ratri because you will cap Hp anyhow and duration is onvious in that situation as I have stated a few times already.
Not going to lie I'm lazy as *** and don't magic burst all that often anymore. I just like to get my HP high enough that I'm not going to get one-shot if I happen to eat a TP move in 4/5 Ratri, and 5k-6k HP is enough to do that.
If you're using a scythe it's fairly easy to pull a mob to the side and get a quick compression going with AF+2/3 gloves weapon bash -> nightmare scythe/insurgency and getting a burst off. Asura.Friedrik said: » Not going to lie I'm lazy as *** and don't magic burst all that often anymore. I just like to get my HP high enough that I'm not going to get one-shot if I happen to eat a TP move in 4/5 Ratri, and 5k-6k HP is enough to do that. If you're using a scythe it's fairly easy to pull a mob to the side and get a quick compression going with AF+2/3 gloves weapon bash -> nightmare scythe/insurgency and getting a burst off. You know the group I run with, you know its next to impossible haha, plus I stopped using drk in omen because well.... I have all +3 lol. But this holds true for most events I use drk on anymore.
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Asura.Azagarth said: » You know the group I run with, you know its next to impossible haha, plus I stopped using drk in omen because well.... I have all +3 lol. But this holds true for most events I use drk on anymore. Lol, true that... I don't even play DRK very much anymore after the H2H update. I'm not sure what I'm doing in here Just curious but what stats would I made for an Ambuscade cape for Entropy?
definitely int, i assume att/acc/da+10 since supposedly a 4 hit, but a real drk can correct me if im wrong. :D
i was testing it today and thats my HP:
engage 2212 FC 2230 Drain 2658 the only way to solve this issue by not using ratri which will be less than 5m drain right? & is using Dark Grip better than ambuscade grip? Fenrir.Aladeus said: » definitely int, i assume att/acc/da+10 since supposedly a 4 hit, but a real drk can correct me if im wrong. :D That's what I was thinking. Well that or WSD+10% but Double Attack seems to be the way to go. Thanks for the confirmation. Asura.Jinbe said: » i was testing it today and thats my HP: engage 2212 FC 2230 Drain 2658 the only way to solve this issue by not using ratri which will be less than 5m drain right? & is using Dark Grip better than ambuscade grip? I answered it above for myself and my gear set I posted etc. Asura.Azagarth said: » (can use ambusace grip instead for more macc etc and be only 7 hp positive) your results may vary :D but its a question of more hp or more macc, neither is wrong just different. So I have an alternate account I dual box with. I currently am gearing up Dark knight on it and before i rush off to build a REMA, probably apocalypse, I was wondering whether or not the Fallen's scythe would be useful to use and what path to augment it through Rank points. Thank you
Cerberus.Nolatari said: » So I have an alternate account I dual box with. I currently am gearing up Dark knight on it and before i rush off to build a REMA, probably apocalypse, I was wondering whether or not the Fallen's scythe would be useful to use and what path to augment it through Rank points. Thank you I wouldn't bother with anything besides Apoc/Calad/Liberator. Asura.Botosi said: » Cerberus.Nolatari said: » So I have an alternate account I dual box with. I currently am gearing up Dark knight on it and before i rush off to build a REMA, probably apocalypse, I was wondering whether or not the Fallen's scythe would be useful to use and what path to augment it through Rank points. Thank you I wouldn't bother with anything besides Apoc/ #TeamScythes
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SimonSes said: » Asura.Botosi said: » Cerberus.Nolatari said: » So I have an alternate account I dual box with. I currently am gearing up Dark knight on it and before i rush off to build a REMA, probably apocalypse, I was wondering whether or not the Fallen's scythe would be useful to use and what path to augment it through Rank points. Thank you I wouldn't bother with anything besides Apoc/ #TeamScythes I’ll take you on with my Calad any day boy ;)
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Asura.Botosi said: » SimonSes said: » Asura.Botosi said: » Cerberus.Nolatari said: » So I have an alternate account I dual box with. I currently am gearing up Dark knight on it and before i rush off to build a REMA, probably apocalypse, I was wondering whether or not the Fallen's scythe would be useful to use and what path to augment it through Rank points. Thank you I wouldn't bother with anything besides Apoc/ #TeamScythes I’ll take you on with my Calad any day boy ;) Yeah, when you get all the acc buffs and I will stand still waiting for hit. Actually you would still probably miss ;) the whole reason i posted this was to find a non-REMA scythe that would be useful to use. I already know what REMAs to go after with Dark knight, I was hoping for some viable choices in the meantime
if you just want a scythe to hold you over, kaja scythe would likely be fine/basically free, or any of the myriad of other scythes like ruann's or raetic. Fallen's is okay but its not something id buy then dump time/money to max out as itd basically be useless once you got any of the above scythes
thank you
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