Dev Tracker - Discussion

damn edit, didn't refresh fast enough lol

But, look where the HTBF is. Is that Vahzl? lol

Looks like Walk of Echoes Battlefield (Ornate Door), where you fight Lady Lilith + Cait Sith

I thought those stats looked familiar. PLD relic+3 stats? Mostly.

If they add anything for PLD from this... I just want it to have good magic evasion. I mean, good luck competing with Souveran +1 in any other field. <,<;;

And people would still want a RUN :p

Martel is right, what PLD needs is a solid tanking set with kenda lvls of meva. (And a job overhaul)

Volte Armor wants to say hello~

Volte has the meva... mostly. It's not quite caught up to Kedatsuba +1 or Turms+1 level, but it's way better than typical heavy armor, however... Volte has a serious HP deficiency for a tank. And it's got no enmity+ at all, so it's not like you can maintain that meva. You have to cast. Well, you could cast in it too, but the lack of enmity would suuuuuck. But it does have a nice PDT/MDT mix. Also... I wish that at least the body had refresh.

And then there's what a huge pain in the *** it is to farm.

I'm 2/5 on volte! Eventually I'll get back into dynamis D and try for more. So it can sit in my moghouse along with my PLD. /sadPLD

If new Odin HTBF dropped ilvl Valhalla set with super high meva, that would be fine for the jobs listed, since it's only 2 pieces anyways. Would make all of the heavy armor wearers that much sturdier, though drk already has a high meva set it can get use out of.

It's exactly 4 meva less than Kendatsuba +1, so I would say it is at the same level.

Now it's exactly the same as Turms NQ. Turms HQ having 50 more MEVA. So it's more like +1 Turms is on another level than Kenda+1 and Volte.

Granted I can acknowledge PLD needing some tweaks, but is it really in such a bad situation?
I think you guys are kinda exxagerating.

Ambuscade +3 gear could potentially happen in the future.

They need to add something to keep Ambuscade interesting for people, from time to time.
First they added the defensive augment, then the weapons.
For now it's fine and it's gonna be fine for a while as the average player slowly builds weapons.

Eventually the interest is gonna start to get low and at that point they will have to invent something else to add for people to farm.
They could invent a plethora of things but Armor+3 is one of those.

Supposing it will ever happen, I don't see it happening before they manage to add Empy+3 gear.
It's not gonna be super easy to balance them out. Considering how ambu gear was meant to be entry level/sidegrade stuff and considering how several pieces are already sorta BiS, improving them further places Ambu gear in an odd spot compared to the "entry level" it was supposed to be. But maybe SE doesn't care for that anymore, who knows.

Name me one situation right now where you'd bring a PLD if a similarly geared and skilled RUN was available. The only content I've done on PLD in months was Omen, for PLD cards, so yeah.. Oh, and this months Ambuscade. Holy circle is actually fairly useful for pushing the clear time along. Was fun. I seem hear a lot of other PLD's echoing these general experiences. If I'm on PLD these days it's not cause I heard, "Martel, we need you on PLD.", it's cause I arbitrarily decided I wanted to do something on PLD.

Also in regards to meva woes, you may recall this post and my follow up comparison of PLD and RUN meva.

If SE is going to add tank buster moves with the sole survival method being resisting via meva... then PLD needs to have enough meva to reliably resist. A DT piercing 4k base dmg Mijiin is straight up a kick in the nuts to PLD, while being absolutely trivial to RUN. Most Rune fencers tanking namis D probably didn't even realize it could be dangerous.

And this is just the most pointed example. It's hardly the only place that PLD is at a disadvantage.

That's not even getting into the difference in enmity generation, DPS output, and general utility.

So certainly. You can do content on PLD... mostly. /get's exploded by NINs. But if you're actually looking at performance and the utility you bring to a group... then you hang up the shield and go RUN.

/eagerly awaits PLD updates.

oh boy cant wait to SMN burn odin /s

Name me one situation where such a similarly geared PLD cannot get the job done with pretty similar efficiency and negligible difference in term of skill required from the player and time consumed by the whole party/alliance.

Because I think that's the point.
Now try the same example and put PUP tank or NIN tank in the same place and you'll see what I mean.

It's virtually impossible to perfectly balance everything in a game like FFXI that doesn't have homogeneized jobs.
Make PLD a bit stronger (just a tiny bit) than RUN, and in a few months you'll see RUNs whining around about how much their job needs a buff because hey! Name a situation where you'd bring a RUN over a similarly equipped PLD! /sarcasm

Jokes aside, you're an incredibly competent player. I don't think you can hide your natural but healthy bias towards PLD, but that's hardly the point of the topic anyway.
I can see PLD getting some small buffs and I will welcome everything PLD will get with open arms.
I just don't think it needs such a major rehaul/gear because the job is in a pretty nice spot atm if you ask me.

Also, if they want to give PLD something, I'd like it to be something unique rather than just slapping a huge amount of Meva on it. That's RUN defining thing, I'd love it to remain a RUN thing.


Talking in general, we have several competent RUNs in our LS, but out of habit or other silly reasons, we normally run all our content with PLD.
Everything works fine, from a Healer/Supporter/DPS point of view, you barely notice any difference.


The only situations where I can see a clear, obvious, noticeable difference in favor of RUN is:
1) Windurst_D, the resistance rate of Doom is so much higher, it really does make quite a difference for your healer/supporter tryin to get those Cursna off.
2) Small group content where you want to maximize the amount of damage. Clearly Hybrid RUN is on another scale compared to lolPLD
3) Magic-based content. T4s in Reisen and similar. Granted we don't do that with mage setup anymore, but multiple uses of Rayke and Gambit made quite a big difference there
4) Short zergs where you can exploit Rayke/Gambit or Odyllic Subterfuge.

Point 3 is no longer relevant. Point 4 uh, maybe, I don't do Zergs but if you do I can see it counting. Likewise for 2.
For 1 it's QoL for your healers but it's not really that big of a deal in the end.

Pup and nin werent designed to be tanks is the difference there, pld was and its falling off due to run having:

-better hate gain/control due to high enmity jas and foil
-better damage mitigation due to how inquarta works
-better survivability due to how turms gloves works with inquarta
-loads more meva as stated above
-a nice chunk of runs enmity moves are also utility moves, rayke, vallation epeo liament, though this is somewhat minor

Then theres the whole dd aspect of the job on top of these, yes you can clear content on pld but the jobs currently at a wall that it cant overcome in comparison to run and offers nothing unique to itself to set it apart

Edit: oh and epeo makes run as capable of taking phys moves as pld is, moreso even

Don't think you've said anything that I haven't mentioned already.
Glad to be proved wrong but so far I see a lot of mental masturbation for differences described as OMG INSANE when they're actually pretty negligible.

...not that it's hot news, as far as I remember FFXI has pretty much always been like this, with people overeacting for things that were really small.

Again: make PLD a bit stronger than RUN, just a tiny, insignificant bit, and in a few months you'll see RUNs whining left and right about how RUN is omg so useless.
With no new content at all of course, that's the real irony of it haha.

W3 Ninjas

If its negligible to you i guess well have to agree to disagree, but to me atleast those all add up to a better and smoother tanking experience. 25~30% parry rate minimum that gets me 75~100 hp vs aegis plds next to nil block rate with no recovery, 2(3 with epeo) snap aoe hate tools with only 1 being at ramparts hate level which is all pld gets, then 4 self hate buffs to plds 3 i beleive it was. Gambit/rayke which are aldo similar hate to the 4 self buffs, and then foil in place of cure cheats. And this is all before i pick a sub.

SEs big goof was making run as physically sturdy as pld instead of keeping it as the magic tank to plds phys tank

You guys can complain about MEva, DD potential, utility or whatever but the real difference between both jobs is that RUN is fun to play while PLD is boring as hell.

True but it also makes PLD mules incredibly easy to set up and use.

I think that is a result of the rune element system and role shift you can perform on the fly on RUN. With OFA, Valiance and Battuta, you're practically impregnable. You can then shift into a full DD build, rebuff yourself completely, spam hate tools, or go make a sandwich. Having to choose which runes to use to negate damage or heal yourself/MP is actually fairly satisfying, as it keeps you engaged and busy all the time. It's not quite PUP involved, but it's not nearly as autopilot as PLD is.

The only REAL differences between a run and a pld where pld has any meaningful drawbacks is status resist rate and damage. Thats really it.

Enmity; between /drk or /blu, pld has zero issues hilding hate, even after resets. If your DD is consistently pulling hate, tell them to use their enmity shedding/transferring abilities, almost every job has one, even if it only ever needs to be used in the case of a perfectly geared DD with a still gearing tank, but at that point run wouldnt hold hate either, and even in this situation there are methods of handling it with a thf, a brd, a sch, or having the DD sub drg.

As far as sturdiness goes, a pld will never drop before a run outside of doom/death resist rates, and even then theres enough death resist gear to at least make this a non issue. Run doesnt even get close to a plds survivability outside of perfectly geared, and at that point its not like pld is going to die either.

I'm convinced you don't actually play this game

PLD can wear 3 pieces of resist death gear. And they are all rings. So technically 2 pieces.

I tested shadow Ring at about 25% proc rate. Warden's is listed as +10, and Eihwaz is unlisted and untested.(EDIT: BGwiki has it as 10%, via the FFXI Premium Guide 2013)

So PLD has maybe 35%~ resist death. Meaning more often than not, Death will kill you. I would not call this a non-issue.

On the other hand, RUN can wear 4 pieces of resist death gear. The 3 rings, plus samnuha coat, listed at +15.

So run would have 50% resist death. Still gonna die half the time, but still better than PLD.

I will note that at least in this particular case, RUN's magic evasion, runes, and pflug offer no particular advantage. None of it works on death. But they're still ahead due to gear selection. lol.

EDIT: I just realized, I've never done a death resist test using more than one piece of death resist gear. I don't actually know that these stack additively, or stack at all. I feel it's likely additive, but with this in mind the values above could be lower in practice.

Oh really? I guess DRG, THF, PUP, BST and SCH are almost every job. Not to mention only DRG and THF are used in melee setups and only DRG can reset hate.

Every job can have a hate shead with /drg.

BLM too. Enmity Douse. But your point definitely stands. 6/22 is nothing like almost every job.

Ranger and cor get wildfire, all magic based WSs generate little enmity so even trueflight/leaden applies, and relic gun is near 0 enmity gen on ranger. This is before decoy shot.

Brd and sch have spells to reduce enmity gen quite heavily, and sch can transfer all enmity to a single target with its 2nd sp.

All jobs can sub drg with minimal losses if theyre 2h jobs if your tank is still gearing and youre full rema bis.

Nin gets enmity suppression.

Really only looking at drk and war as main heavy DDs with little enmity control, and mnk as technically a light class with heavy damage, but given fewer spikes from high WS damage monk should pull less hate. Even blm generates near 0 enmity with MBs, and has enmity douse if they somehow do.