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Dev Tracker - Discussion
 Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-01-08 23:50:29
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »Are you saying that this isn't the JP translation?
Any Trusts summoned cannot be summoned again until leaving the area
Honestly, that would be the biggest obstacle to doing this solo. There's only like 3 useful trusts... :D
Where are you reading that bolded line on the link Eiryl posted? Or are you going by what was translated on the previous page? I only see one line about alter ego on the official forums post
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1410
By Fenrir.Melphina 2021-01-09 00:10:16
EDIT: Never mind, I stand corrected. I trust what I'm reading below.
 Bismarck.Ringoko
By Bismarck.Ringoko 2021-01-09 00:41:29
The official NA translation is pretty clear. There's no restriction on sub jobs, and the only job overlap restriction is that you can't have two of the same job on the same run. That's fine by me. I've been running Sheol with a group for several months now so I'm definately looking forward to it.
The NA translation is very... brief. It looks like breadcrumbs compared to what the JP got. Although it doesn't say anything about subjobs being restricted in that post, the jp slide says they are invalid. Second line:
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By Pantafernando 2021-01-09 01:17:32
Enter Sheol - Veng(?)
Kill NM to receive KI
Trade KI for a new gear
Enter Sheol - Veng(?) - harder modes
Kill NM to receive RP (based on NM HP)
Trade to mog for upgrade
By Manque 2021-01-09 06:20:01
The official NA translation is pretty clear. There's no restriction on sub jobs, and the only job overlap restriction is that you can't have two of the same job on the same run. That's fine by me. I've been running Sheol with a group for several months now so I'm definately looking forward to it.
The NA translation is very... brief. It looks like breadcrumbs compared to what the JP got. Although it doesn't say anything about subjobs being restricted in that post, the jp slide says they are invalid. Second line:
Content Rules
Occupancy Time: Max. 60 mins (x3 15 minutes battles / prep area 15 minutes)
No support jobs
Jobs used by party members after engaging the NM cannot be used until leaving the area
Trusts used by anyone cannot be summoned again until leaving the area
Area can be exited by clearing all battles, running out of time in battles, running out of time in prep area, or by using the temporary item 'mog packet II'
Official Forum JP feedback so far:
9000 to enter the boss area? seriously?
I didn't save up points up in the past and now... this? I want to scold my former self...
Seems a bit overkill. Ambuscade: every month NM's change along with available gear, Omen:cards are limited to job you enter as, can be sent home, exchanged 10 to 1. Dynamis: can only enter 2 times, Odyssey: no sjs, can't reuse jobs, can't use same jobs if you continue fighting, need lots of jobs at 99 and 9000 segments
Difficult to understand this. Making us have multiple jobs. Goin to be difficult to gather members and organize. WIll need 3 different patterns for deciding who can do what job.Pick-up groups will be super difficult.Seems out of date with the times of how people play MMO.
Ambus had enough timegates and criss-crossing of requirements. Now we're tied by this too?
Personally there's no other gear I want in Odyssey, so it's a pain to have to farm segments.WOn't be able to play with others who aren't on that much, not to mention having to coordinate jobs with them.
Worried about how switching equip will work. Due to inventory issues, it's goin to be a pain to plan all of the swaps etc.
Knowing past trends of NM's with large AoE damage and status effects, support jobs are in a tough spot and there's goin to be a lot of pressure on healers. Seems like yagrush will be a requirement for WHM?
Tanks could be PLD, RUN, but NIN won't be able to take hate, maybe PUP?
Will the 'packet' item always be in the inventory or only after clearing all 3?
Ok, that's enough. Anyways, lots of the feedback seems negative, but there are a few 'bring it on!' 'appreciate the challenge!' comments too. I think the bolded item above is a wortwhile question (probably an item like fireflys I would hope, meaning you could enter and kill 1-2 NMs and then exit).
edit: completely forgot why I wanted to translate in the first place. Yes, from the above Japanese and everyone's reactions in the forum, SJ's are indeed unusable and no re-using jobs.
By Pantafernando 2021-01-09 07:03:46
Well, after player gears reached almost the cap of many relevant attribute, there is no much room to creating a "challenge" without resorting to forced gimping.
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Sylph.Herbs
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 82
By Sylph.Herbs 2021-01-09 07:23:53
"The game is too easy! I want more challenging content, make it hard!"
suddenly
"wtf this sounds too hard!"
As it usually the case, people want the illusion of challenge so they can pat themselves on the back when they beat it but they don't want to wipe or need to change tactics or anything. That would be crazy.
 Asura.Lewyo
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 86
By Asura.Lewyo 2021-01-09 07:25:52
Yet again more 6 man only content, This is just total failure imo and a insult to a mmorpg.
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Sylph.Herbs
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 82
By Sylph.Herbs 2021-01-09 07:34:35
Yet again more 6 man only content, This is just total failure imo and a insult to a mmorpg.
6 is fine, when it starts going higher it gets harder to build groups and it's laggy.
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Asura.Lewyo
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 86
By Asura.Lewyo 2021-01-09 07:53:27
New content should be 6~18 upon release to allow for linkshells who have more than 6 members to be able to take everyone inside.
I find new content that has a maximum of 6 players only that can enter frustrating.
The introduction of low man content I believe has lead to to a lack of community and groups that FF11 use to have, Also power creep and the lack of new content has made old content a lot easier to do and this also pushes down the amount of people in a group that you now need to clear it with.
This is also a reason why so many now shout to sell ambuscade VD wins and omen equip etc. This will only get worse.
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 Asura.Sechs
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10086
By Asura.Sechs 2021-01-09 07:56:09
Yet again more 6 man only content, This is just total failure imo and a insult to a mmorpg.
6 is fine, when it starts going higher it gets harder to build groups and it's laggy. Larger groups are not the source of lag in content like Omen or Divergence though.
I prefer content that is doable with both large and small groups, but then again I could be fine with yet another 6men content like Odyssey, if only they would fix the silly entry system they have up atm.
Why the *** can't we store KIs and do several runs in a row (like with Omen?) instead of the stupid daily KI system that's currently up?
SMH
By FaeQueenCory 2021-01-09 08:09:45
I think the bolded item above is a wortwhile question (probably an item like fireflys I would hope, meaning you could enter and kill 1-2 NMs and then exit). From what I gather, that does seem to be the case. Some sort of temp item that lets you exit before the time runs out. Like in all the other stuff.
Pretty sure the whole "incomplete" run scenario they mentioned where you get partial RP credit based on % of the NM's HP would come into play in a similar manner.
One thing that I'm not 100% clear on is if the entry KIs are used up? Or are they permanent? Like is it a 9k content entrance fee, like Dynamis Divergence's 100 piece fee? or is it every damn time... if it's the latter.... ain't nobody got time for that.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1360
By Odin.Creaucent 2021-01-09 08:25:18
New content should be 6~18 upon release to allow for linkshells who have more than 6 members to be able to take everyone inside.
I find new content that has a maximum of 6 players only that can enter frustrating.
The introduction of low man content I believe has lead to to a lack of community and groups that FF11 use to have, Also power creep and the lack of new content has made old content a lot easier to do and this also pushes down the amount of people in a group that you now need to clear it with.
This is also a reason why so many now shout to sell ambuscade VD wins and omen equip etc. This will only get worse.
Low man content is there because well... the game doesnt have as many players as it used to have. There is also nothing stopping your LS making groups of 6 to enter.
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Asura.Lewyo
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 86
By Asura.Lewyo 2021-01-09 08:36:05
Low man content is there because well... the game doesnt have as many players as it used to have.
The player base is there but quite a lot of players have been pushed into smaller groups or doing it multi box because of the low man content that gets released and the use of trusts does not help either.
There is also nothing stopping your LS making groups of 6 to enter.
My LS has been running for over 10 years on Asura and in that time we have never once done a event and left out players that are online. This is why I resent up to 6 player only content.
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 Asura.Kusare
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 190
By Asura.Kusare 2021-01-09 08:47:39
6 or 18 is fine by me either way, and even solo challenges too. just looks like a case of trying to reinvent the wheel and ending up with squares. we don't need all the restrictions to have good content.
Lakshmi.Avereith
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1214
By Lakshmi.Avereith 2021-01-09 09:22:12
Ugh yeah.. 6 man I didn't even think about how stupid that's going to be to make this a weekly ls event and make people split up into groups
I already feel bad enough when we have to do 12 man tumult curator runs and exclude people because some of them just don't have the jobs for it to make it worth going above 12 for hp reasons
At least with dyna and omen and 18 man content we can always bring along newer players that might not be able to contribute much and it doesn't hurt us, but making new 6 man content is basically saying, "hey! Take your core ls group ie your best 6 players and exclude all your new friends from content"
Unless it's as easy as sinister reign or something, which I doubt it will be
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1360
By Odin.Creaucent 2021-01-09 09:30:37
Low man content is there because well... the game doesnt have as many players as it used to have.
The player base is there but quite a lot of players have been pushed into smaller groups or doing it multi box because of the low man content that gets released and the use of trusts does not help either.
There is also nothing stopping your LS making groups of 6 to enter.
My LS has been running for over 10 years on Asura and in that time we have never once done a event and left out players that are online. This is why I resent up to 6 player only content.
You still dont need to leave people out everyone in the LS can be sorted into groups of 6. I seems to me like you are whining to whine.
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 Ragnarok.Ghishlain
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1081
By Ragnarok.Ghishlain 2021-01-09 09:31:44
Worried about how switching equip will work. Due to inventory issues, it's goin to be a pain to plan all of the swaps etc.
This is pretty much the largest concern I have with how the system works. Having three jobs at 99 is easy - having three jobs at 99 that is GEARED to handle the difficulty of the content is another issue. Of course, difficulty cannot be ascertained until the content is released so best to reserve judgement until it is released.
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Asura.Lewyo
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 86
By Asura.Lewyo 2021-01-09 09:42:18
You still dont need to leave people out everyone in the LS can be sorted into groups of 6. I seems to me like you are whining to whine.
That's all well and true if most players in your LS have a wide variety of jobs to accommodate three six man groups.
The problem is if I have too many or too less LS members online to make full groups of six, then I would have to leave players out and tbo my LS never runs 6 man only content as an event for this reason.
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Asura.Sechs
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10086
By Asura.Sechs 2021-01-09 09:47:44
It's not even "just" that.
It's also a matter of way more stress for who is in charge of setting up events. Having to manage two different groups, setting people up in both so that both groups can be successful and being unable to directly experience one of the two.
It's waaaay more stress.
Last but not least when you're in a LS of friends who do endgame stuff you want to experience all together, not in separate groups.
If you want to do lowmen stuff you get a bloody static, not an old style endgame LS.
Asura.Tsm
By Asura.Tsm 2021-01-09 09:52:32
recently SE has seemed to rotate from 6 man -> 18man content if you look at the cycle of ambu dynamis-d omen odyssey delve yada yada in order.
hopefully it just means that the next content is 18man. i personally wouldn't want 18man content wasted on odyssey, i'd rather see something new
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Odin.Talym
VIP
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 12
By Odin.Talym 2021-01-09 10:11:28
The only thing I don't really like about this is the segment cost for the boss KIs combined with the time gate on the entry KI to earn segments. Seems too restrictive.
The rest, frankly, sounds like the most interesting content that they've introduced in a very long time. Getting people to expand their horizons and use different slates of jobs is a good thing.
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サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1410
By Fenrir.Melphina 2021-01-09 10:13:57
Honestly not being able to re-use jobs is going to be the biggest challenge and I guarantee it'll cause issues with newer people and smaller groups.
Linkshell leader: "Ok so what jobs can you guys bring?"
Player A: I have Dragoon, thief, summoner, white mage, blue mage, black mage, and ranger
Player B: Corsair, monk, dragoon, and puppetmaster here!
Player C: I only have Paladin, Samurai, and Dragoon leveled. Sorry, I'm pretty new.
Player D: Thief, Blue mage, dragoon, samurai, and dark knight
Player E: Samurai, dragoon, warrior, rune, paladin, and dark knight. I do two hander jobs!
Player F: thief, dancer, puppetmaster, ranger, corsair, and beastmaster. I do one hander jobs!
Linkshell leader: Ok so from that list you guys only have one healer, and you guys have too much job overlap and not enough job diversity. It's literally impossible for me to make this work for you. Sorry.... there's no way I can set up a run with that job spread.
Linkshell members in unison: FFFFFFFFFFF!
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By malakef 2021-01-09 10:25:39
I been practically begging people to level whm brd and tanks for the shell. Now SE is doing the asking for me. Thanks SE!!!
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1360
By Odin.Creaucent 2021-01-09 10:34:21
recently SE has seemed to rotate from 6 man -> 18man content if you look at the cycle of ambu dynamis-d omen odyssey delve yada yada in order.
hopefully it just means that the next content is 18man. i personally wouldn't want 18man content wasted on odyssey, i'd rather see something new
Delve 18 + Skirmish 6 > HTBF 6 > Incursion 18 > Vagary 18 > Unity 18 > SR 6 > Escha 18 > ambu 6 > Omen 18 > Dyna 18 > Odyssey 6.
Not exactly a pattern there though it could be either next.
Asura.Botosi
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 375
By Asura.Botosi 2021-01-09 10:42:08
This sounds like way way way too much thinking, waiting, and organizing for an almost 20yr old MMO.
No, I don’t want to play without my subjob.
No, I don’t want to farm 3000 segments for each run
No, I don’t want to organize an event where people have to play more than one job (they’re already bad enough at 1 usually)
No, I don’t want to waste 1+ Hr of my time shouting for specific jobs only to end up wiping and wasting the 3k segments I had to farm.
No, I don’t want to have a to leave LS members out (or any of my mules) because it’s only 6 man content.
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By malakef 2021-01-09 10:44:40
Vagery came out before SR and Escha and I think unity was before that. Oddly SR came out after the initial Escha zones. All that said still no pattern but recent trend towards 18 man can’t really be denied other than Ambu which seems far more pick up friendly than what odyssey looks to be. Odyssey is begging for LS trouble trying to manage groups.
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Leviathan.Isiolia
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 468
By Leviathan.Isiolia 2021-01-09 10:57:07
Honestly not being able to re-use jobs is going to be the biggest challenge and I guarantee it'll cause issues with newer people and smaller groups.
Linkshell leader: "Ok so what jobs can you guys bring?"
Player A: I have Dragoon, thief, summoner, white mage, blue mage, black mage, and ranger
Player B: Corsair, monk, dragoon, and puppetmaster here!
Player C: I only have Paladin, Samurai, and Dragoon leveled. Sorry, I'm pretty new.
Player D: Thief, Blue mage, dragoon, samurai, and dark knight
Player E: Samurai, dragoon, warrior, rune, paladin, and dark knight. I do two hander jobs!
Player F: thief, dancer, puppetmaster, ranger, corsair, and beastmaster. I do one hander jobs!
Linkshell leader: Ok so from that list you guys only have one healer, and you guys have too much job overlap and not enough job diversity. It's literally impossible for me to make this work for you. Sorry.... there's no way I can set up a run with that job spread.
Linkshell members in unison: FFFFFFFFFFF!
Really depends on the target for the content. If the rewards from this are actually worth it (the example shown seem...not) or if they end up using it for additional things that are, then formalizing long-term progression as multiple jobs makes sense. It's what there is to do after a certain point, so it may be designed more for the long term players.
Depending on details, it may be more that it's how the content scales. Groups can start out doing one boss with their good jobs (or multibox setup), with the potential to set up additional jobs/party configurations to do two and eventually three per run. It's a more logical way to scale it than the way UNMs and Geas Fete do.
Asura.Veikur
By Asura.Veikur 2021-01-09 12:02:25
Sylph.Herbs
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 82
By Sylph.Herbs 2021-01-09 12:07:17
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This thread is for discussion of recent news from the Dev Tracker - News thread. Keep it civil.
Original thread by Pantafernando archived here.
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