Dev Tracker - Discussion

The most recent discussion about the weapons said that they were planned to be the same level (in terms of strength) as current REMAs, and that they were planning on later introducing a way to power up REMAs further to keep them on top.

btw in response to the "DREAM" acronym adding this category-

nope.

its REAMD- because no matter if they suck or are amazing, we're gettin reamed.

The problem with that statement is they have their head up their *** the way they think we play.

I promise you they will be the exact opposite, of "that".

I am curious what kind of "theme" these new weapons will feature through their potential stats..

Aeonics were very evenly structured with the Zergy style stats across the board with unified style of TP Bonus 500 and Ultimate Skillchain access etc...

What will these new weapons bring? Can they introduce new capabilities that surpass the job's limits like what a few of the Mythic Weapons did for their jobs? (Yagrush, Kenkonken, Tizona)

I am very curious about their direction. They have a lot of different options and areas of concern for many jobs. What path will they focus on to enhance weaknesses?

Job Weakness focus and DPS enhancement in unique areas = Mythic Weapon Theme, some very OP as mentioned above..

..or Enhance mostly DPS (Empy, Aeonic) .. With exception to (Daurdabla and Ochain which helped overall playerbase access tougher content)

Relics were a bit of a mix of themes but very basic in nature to enhance their perspective jobs with unique weaponskills that had embedded Aftermath features that focused on the job's accuracy and certain other areas.. Once again, with exception to the incredible utility of Ghorn, and Aegis which were meant to break barriers for the players as a whole access tougher content...

Biggest question of 2018 Update.. What will happen to MNK? Will their new weapon bring them back?

Should we bring flowers to their grave again? Or will they be revived from the Dead? (Popularity wise)

i can't wait to get third eye enhanced again

Monk is already back!

Pls Pls Pls Pls Give rng Bloody Quarrel!!!!!!!!

I don't wish to start the usual drama-argument about Monk again, but I used it a few days ago in a few random PUG content and despite my MNK being pretty subpar in terms of gear, it performed way better than I expected it to be.

I still think several aspects of MNK are fundamentally broken and I still think it's probably the worst DPS in-game atm. At the same time though I have the impression that many of us (myself included) tend to hyperbolize the current situation. Yes MNK isn't great and it's not where it deserves to be and it's annoying to see all the "broken" things about it, but at the same time it's not really that bad either.

I think the game in 15 years of life has probably seen much worse disparity between DPS than the current one.

I wish we could all just realize that a job is only as good as the the person playing it and how many *** they give about doing it.

You can join anything on mnk and outparse hundreds of perfect gear wars drks sams if they're just plain bad.

You have to compare YOUR ability on job A vs job B. NOT player A vs player B.

Anyone who plays WAR/SAM/DRK very well, will play MNK very well. But. Their output will be higher on WAR/SAM/DRK than it would be on MNK.

I've taken NIN in to Dynamis-D and outparsed like 5 other melee because of this. They were "better jobs" but poor players.

Yes but I'm not a particularly good player, and my gear on MNK is really, meh. I mean not "returning player" level of meh, but still.

I was more comparing the damage output compared to my other jobs, which are also meh I guess lol, but tipically a bit better geared than MNK.
And uh, I confirm what I said above.
Yes it's clearly inferior, but it has its pros and it's not as far below as I thought it would've obviously been. I was honestly surprised, in my mind the difference was much bigger than what it actually is.
There still is quite a clear difference though, I wasn't tryin to deny that.

Also if I can say I find the new cooldowns make the job more complex to handle, if anything. It was much simpler (being "simple" is one of the pros of MNK imo) and efficient with the previous values, if you ask me.

I feel like the JA adjustments did only bad to MNK and the only thing that really proved to be useful are the changes to the base delay/damage of H2H weapons.

What makes(made) Monk good, was not that it was "good"

It was that it was idiot proof. If you over-tp it didn't really matter. If you left berserk up, it didn't really matter. If you didn't skillchain it didn't really matter. whether you boostws or not didn't really matter. it was all relatively the same. It's reallllly hard to "glasscannon" Monk. That is a really good thing. (ignore counter-stance....)

The zealots make everything a bigger deal that it is. You know that. facts I don't like about just exactly how bad Monk is, is pretty ridiculous.

As if a couple dps matter sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much. "that 20 seconds extra on my clear times make it literally impossible to allow a monk in my party guys, sorry."

There are people that actually think by letting a monk join their party their dps will actually go negative and start healing the mob ffs. It's re-god-damn-diculous the ***this site spews about "dps" at the highest level. People don't understand the difference.

/Yell Ambuscade VOL2 VE Do you need it? Reamed only please

I RESEMBLE THAT REMARK!

MNK isn't horrible don't know everyone keeps saying that. I've taken it to omen and reis NM's and outparsed REMA Drks/Wars plenty of times. Nevertheless #MakeMNKRelavantAgain #ChangeBoostBack #NotMyMNK #GetFisted.


Edit: I don't like that our strongest WS is Howling Fist/Raging Fist for the love of god SE pls fix that. While Shijin Spiral is currently flaming hot garbage.

Dravidian? Understandable

I've taken my golden gloves mnk to dyna, and it performs well for what its worth.

An equally skilled player will do far better on another DPS job then on MNK. It's a limitation of H2H WS's coupled with not a lot of useful offensive JA/JT. SE could fix it rather easily by re-balancing H2H WS's in a way similarly to how Sword WS's were.

That being said, a great player on MNK will beat a ***player on any other job. That isn't an argument in favor of MNK or any specific jobs, it's just a testament of skill. If anything the fact that it people use it just demonstrates how poorly MNK is doing.

How do you suppose they fix H2H WS's without indirectly buffing Pup as well? I really wonder what direction they want MNK to go, because looking at the JA/JT/JP they want it to be some sorta off tank and it's just not panning out that way.

You just *** fix it, who cares about pup dps. If pup suddenly became the baddest *** #1 melee job you still wouldn't see people on pup. it's pup.

War and Bst have the same ***for Axes, you don't see people running around on Bst.

They could easily fix mnk ws damage issue with a wsd or similar job trait. But then again I don't really see the issue in indirectly buffing pup as well, don't see how that could break the game

Figured that could be the reason they hesitant about buffing H2H WS's or they just don't care.

....It is the reason. And they get away with it being a reasonable excuse because people go "oh noes but pup would be OP!"

(the real reason is if all jobs output are the same, then people will only play the one that has the best defense as well, and you create a whole new problem)

It's easier to ignore the current problem, than make a new one. And since no one complains about it, it's not going to change.

Automaton damage is mostly terrible though. So, not sure I follow that logic. Minus under Overdrive.

The way things are "balanced" around a job having a pet, and the entirety of the "pet system" in this game is just completely out of whack.

PUP is even more ***then MNK is, the only thing that makes it useful is the robot is damn near invincible.

They fix H2H the exact same way they fixed Sword, change VS to copy fTP and set it to 1.6328125 base fTP (that's CDC btw). Change TK to have higher fTP values at 2K and 3K TP while also raising it's WSC to 50/50. That's what they did to Savage Blade.

There are other things but that alone would make MNK competitive.

NIN's innate advantages in Dynamis are oft-overlooked. Shadows allow you to pretty much walk through Seismostomps without ever having to switch to a DT set. Migawari allows you the freedom to mess up at least once with reapplying shadows. NIN fully buffed is very competitive between Shun & Ten Spam. It's better than people give it credit for honestly, but that's more to say about the player behind the job than the job itself. Which lends more to the points you both agreed with above. A PUG ninja will be garbage vs a decent monk or dancer. Nothing wrong with NInja, just the player controlling it sucks.

I have tanked 4 omen bosses on NIN with just migawari + fade and never had issues. This doesn't make me a better tank than a PLD or RUN, just means I can perform well on [any job]. Hell, August can very easily tank Gin, Kin, Kei, and probably Fu all by himself. He's a computer programmed player that works off of algoriths and doesn't make "mistakes". So if an NPC can tank a boss with relevant support, literally any job should be able to. But it's all about the player behind the job that may or may not make this possible.

I think you are correct that they could just fix h2h weaponskills. I think pup won't take off ahead of other DD's.

There is a level of balance just in managing master and pet both at the same time rather than just pet or just master. Its the same for offense and defense. Sure the pet can be nigh indestructable, but to do that, the master is incredibly vulnerable. and if you gear to protect the master, then the pet becomes very vulnerable.

The finer you try to control both at same time, the harder it is to coordinate or balance offense and defense.

This is why pet jobs are usually played as pet-focused only. the master is doing minor support and all attention is on the pet. If you switch that w/ bst or pup, then the pet moves to a support role.

You have 2 targets who can be terrorized, stunned, paralyzed etc, which prevents using job abilities. You also cannot cure them or buff them at the same time.

for pure dd if puppetmaster engages, then the only role is to open and connect skillchains.

BST is more balanced in damage between pet or master, but less able to build tp on master to connect skillchains.

Yes, there are certain advantages to having pet engaged and not master, because the master is vulnerable and all the pets are disposable to one degree or another. but the trade off is built in to managing and balancing the needs between master and pet.

which means the concerns about pup master becoming op are probably overblown and unrealistic.

It's not like they couldn't buff H2H WSs for only monk by messing around with job traits, if they cared to put effort into it.

A job trait that adds significant amounts of fTP, TP Bonus, and/or mods (ala Utu grip) could be enough if powerful enough.