Dev Tracker - Discussion

It would have to be like 300k segments per V25 T3 unlock lol.

Literally an exchange on a discord a few days ago;

P1: “Looking for party for V25 Bumba and v25 Kalunga clear.”
P2: “Always down to help out on any V25 clears.”
P3: @P1 “Can you pop it?”
P1: @P3 “Nope”
P4: “LOL”

People want to do the content. The issue is pop access. Those with pop access are either ‘done’ or don’t want to do it. Those without pop access either struggle to find ppl to get the tier clears or don’t want to do the tier clears. Big catch 22.

The punishment is the point. The fights are meant to be rehearsed as a group to work toward a common goal. That is how top endgame works in MMOs. Look at the hardest content in WoW or FFXIV. You get your group together, you rehearse the fights until you have it all down, and then you feel great satisfaction when you win.

The primary difference is that content rolls out slower than other games and past eras of FFXI, so Odyssey has been the top rung for a long time. However, I maintain that making it easier will almost eliminate opportunity for that experience. People don't appreciate the process until they go through it, and if there's a way to sidestep the entire thing they will.

Letting people go straight to V20 after any clear would be a reasonable nerf, IMO. No need to change the difficulty, but with current gear obtainable outside Odyssey there's not a whole lot of value in climbing V0~15.

What do you guys figure will be the Odyssey campaign? Double segs? Double RP once per day?

Edit: I'm a forgetful dipshit. Maybe we'll see some form of additional RP boost campaign, though?

I thought there already was an odyssey campaign... another one?

already exists no? its double reward on sheols when touching the goal iirc

That's literally skipping the content. What's the point in that.

I have over 1m segments. Should I be able to buy my way to v25 bumba?

Should really be able to just pop any mob at any veng without the climb at all.

That would alleviate some (Small) percentage of the problem.

If you merc a win you get access to the pop anyway. Doesn't change anything. One fewer hurdle, of which there are a dozen.

V25 no, but I don't see a problem letting people access V20 for segs.

*edit
I realize the convo has been mostly about V25, but Senaki is talking about pugs so I don't think V25 access is reasonable for that level. I do think that allowing these players more access to the content would lead to more V25 attempts though.

I'm kind of ok with players being able to pop their own higher veng bosses without previous clears, if they are qualified for the higher veng levels as far as strength is concerned. I see no reason to force a player into having to follow all lower tiers just for the sake of progression, if they are strong enough to take on V20/25. One of the biggest things that discourage people is the example Senaki explained at the top of the page; they'd otherwise do Odyssey if they could pop it themselves. Having to spend thousands of segments and time just progressing through the ranks seems like a waste of time for most, when they know they can easily clear V25s and be done with it. They just can't do it on their own.

A possible middle-ground I would be in favor of: allow people to pop their own Veng levels that don't currently qualify to do, but the entire group is ineligible for RP from said veng level. This would allow people who are truly interested in setting up their own groups for the purpose of clears to skip straight to the level they desire, to attempt to clear (and then qualify for Rank increase on gear as well as enable RP from that beng level, only after they win). It would also stop people from simply entering V25 Kalunga and selling RP, since under this model nobody in the group gets RP no matter what. Basically you allow a mode where the party leader can go for "clear attempt only". Same Moglophone II/Segments rules apply. Catchup mechanic for those short on segs/don't want to progress lower ranks.

Keep the current model in place, where a person who has progressed through the vengs can still take others into higher vengs, with RP as a reward for failures.

I think it's super ironic that bumba V20 is easier than actually getting access to it.

gotta put effort in getting that sweet r30 gear acces. If there wasnt an access limit everyone would just pop v25 fights that matter and skip the rest.
And sadly yes people that done the v25 and have the r30 are burned out on doing it again. Those v25 fights aren't a joke. Easier now for sure with the prime weapons but still it takes allot of effort and strategy. And one of the downfalls of partys (especialy pug's) is people don't listen or are under geared. So when your done your like f it never again.

I, otoh, think that if anyone wants to do a v20 or v25 clear, they must be able to pop it themselves.

Not being able to pop it but "looking for party" for it is literally saying please carry me I can't be bothered to do the progression.

Being able to do it is irrelevant. Why should anyone believe you can clear it when you have not cleared any of the previous ranks. How does that make any kind of sense.

That's like someone expecting to walk into an 8boss sortie group while only ever having done 3 or 4 boss. Yes, it's fine that is the case, but you need to work up to it. By doing the damn progressions.

That also goes for R0-R1 plebs that want to do V20 to unlock augments for gear they have not bothered to RP to the rank they have first.

Make Campaign 119 so people have a decent alternate to get ML. Besieged happens every other day and we shouldn't have to wait of events. And its a good way to make WoTG engaging again.

I think we need to put on our subscription hats.

Some of the older content still has benefits even if they've been nerfed. That's why every VW pop is still botted during the campaigns even on a backwater server. Omen still has linkshells and soloers doing it. Vagary and Dyna D are still run.

Shaol has no incentive after you've got your armor done. Sortie gets you nothing outside of the chase of unobtainable earrings for negligible gains. Limbus (god forbid anyone actually finishes) has no benefit to play afterwards.

They aren't going to nerf any of this content without adding a reason to do it after, like swart in omen, because that leads to canceled subscriptions, and there's not many worse metrics for a subscription based company to see dip down than canceled subscriptions.

Any type of nerfing of this stuff is going to need to go hand in hand with adding a reward for repetition after the initial goal is met.

An easy $1M+ gil for 30 min of work seems like a good incentive to keep doing Odyssey, or if you really have all the armor done, go and leisurely farm A or B since those Lustreless materials sell for more.

Sheol isn't gaol, though both are under "odyssey"

Farm hides forever, has no relation to fighting Ngai for no reason

Like farming swarts in omen regardless of killing a boss

Maybe if they put a T3 V1 on the last floor so you can choose a free kill for losing half your segs.

We're talking about a group of players that are willing to team up and defeat the content themselves, not a group that wants to be carried. This would mostly be for players getting mid level clears and finishing up the RP on that low rank gear so they're actually viable if/when they do attempt the difficult content.

...honestly, yeah, I think SE should let you spend segments to enter v25 bumba at that point? like, the climb is kind of weird after a couple years of power creep because frankly, if you can handle v0 of a fight at this point you can probably handle v14 with the exact same crew. the intervening clears are boring busywork. one way to ameliorate this would be to just let anyone buy any vengeance level regardless of previous clears.

it's maybe not the optimal way, but it does remove one barrier between "people want to do X fight" and "people cannot enter X fight"

shouting for days on V5,V10 and not getting anyone. This ***make me quit. SE need to give players that already have the lower level clear the incentive to join, like receiving V25 level RP after killing the NM only. 5% V25 vs 100% lower level grind.

Probably because half of Asura has you blocked.

Same diff. They can't team up and clear v5 -> v10 -> v15? That's the bare minimum, and dead easy compared to v20+. No adds, no regen.

Why can't they team up to clear the lower ranks just the same.

It's a waste of time and segments to do anything but v25

The general sentiment. They aren't wrong. Why do v5 v10 v15 v20 when you can in theory jump to v25.

And this exact mentality is what's actually holding people back.

Do the damn progressions.

Well that's the disconnect ain't it.

"Waste your time and climb."

"Pass."

If they could team up and defeat V15, did it really matter that they didn't defeat the 0/5/10 NMs? If a single person in your group has access to V25 and he lets you and 4 others in, is it still a carry when you earned your clear? C'mon bruh

Assuming you can clear it, you're still missing RP ranks in relevant gear, and the ability to progress further by popping NMs for both clears and rp.

You're not doing yourself any good by not being able to pop the highest rank you can actually clear. Why do you hate yourself.

Same scenario for others shouting, 2-3hrs later still shouting or the person give up and disband party.

It still gets you 5 clears (V0 V5 V10 V15 V20) for the price of one. Even if you have to climb the rest to fully utilize it, makes perfect sense to do that and save time where possible. Having someone enter your group on all the T1 and T2s and stomping through them over a day or two would save you over 100k segments.

It still has to be thought of as a group thing, though. If you go solo and get a single clear, finding other people willing to do V0-V15 of only the NMs you're missing is going to be basically impossible. If you can find someone willing to enter with 5/6 of your static and stomp through some V20s, you can take the 6th person back in the group for V25s and everyone is still on the same page.