Kannagi

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Ninja » Kannagi
Kannagi
 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-02-07 09:37:51  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Send me some.....I have a feeling mine will be gone when I least expect it
;0 you’re on lak.. hmm I know someone on your server selling em for 2 mil each ;0
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By zaxtiss 2018-02-07 10:02:46  
Odin.Drakenv said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Send me some.....I have a feeling mine will be gone when I least expect it
;0 you’re on lak.. hmm I know someone on your server selling em for 2 mil each ;0
he's on asura ;p
 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-02-07 10:04:56  
:dramatic music: oh wait there’s a mule of mine that is on asura might have some :0
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-07 11:55:57  
I'm not paying. I just bought one last night for 3mil. Free.99 is my highest offer, or ca$h app!
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By fonewear 2018-02-07 12:32:27  
Odin.Drakenv said: »
So I have relic and when I start aeonic katana will be my first. Kannagi I hear a lot of good things but I Dano. Have enough for another emp weapon but I hate seeing my 90 kannagi I think it’s a completion issue. Thoughts suggestions or trolls commence!

It's an MMO there is no completing anything. There is always another thing to chase.

If you complete this then you'll have to complete something else and something else. Leaving you ultimately unsatisfied.
 Quetzalcoatl.Langly
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By Quetzalcoatl.Langly 2018-02-07 12:36:56  
I dislike prescribing playstyles as much as the next guy, but if you're NOT using sange, you're hurting yourself. :\
 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-02-07 12:41:47  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I'm not paying. I just bought one last night for 3mil. Free.99 is my highest offer, or ca$h app!
:0
 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-02-07 12:42:27  
fonewear said: »
Odin.Drakenv said: »
So I have relic and when I start aeonic katana will be my first. Kannagi I hear a lot of good things but I Dano. Have enough for another emp weapon but I hate seeing my 90 kannagi I think it’s a completion issue. Thoughts suggestions or trolls commence!

It's an MMO there is no completing anything. There is always another thing to chase.

If you complete this then you'll have to complete something else and something else. Leaving you ultimately unsatisfied.
And then?
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By fonewear 2018-02-07 12:45:03  
Odin.Drakenv said: »
fonewear said: »
Odin.Drakenv said: »
So I have relic and when I start aeonic katana will be my first. Kannagi I hear a lot of good things but I Dano. Have enough for another emp weapon but I hate seeing my 90 kannagi I think it’s a completion issue. Thoughts suggestions or trolls commence!

It's an MMO there is no completing anything. There is always another thing to chase.

If you complete this then you'll have to complete something else and something else. Leaving you ultimately unsatisfied.
And then?

If you quit you don't have to worry about it then.

People act like quitting is a bad thing.
 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-02-07 12:48:03  
fonewear said: »
Odin.Drakenv said: »
fonewear said: »
Odin.Drakenv said: »
So I have relic and when I start aeonic katana will be my first. Kannagi I hear a lot of good things but I Dano. Have enough for another emp weapon but I hate seeing my 90 kannagi I think it’s a completion issue. Thoughts suggestions or trolls commence!

It's an MMO there is no completing anything. There is always another thing to chase.

If you complete this then you'll have to complete something else and something else. Leaving you ultimately unsatisfied.
And then?

If you quit you don't have to worry about it then.

People act like quitting is a bad thing.
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By fonewear 2018-02-07 12:48:41  
I really don't care what you do. I'm just contributing to the thread.

Whether you like what I post or not doesn't concern me.
 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-02-07 12:50:10  
fonewear said: »
I really don't care what you do. I'm just contributing to the thread.

Whether you like what I post or not doesn't concern me.
[+]
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By fonewear 2018-02-07 12:51:21  
Odin.Drakenv said: »
fonewear said: »
I really don't care what you do. I'm just contributing to the thread.

Whether you like what I post or not doesn't concern me.
 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-02-07 12:52:58  
fonewear said: »
Odin.Drakenv said: »
fonewear said: »
I really don't care what you do. I'm just contributing to the thread.

Whether you like what I post or not doesn't concern me.
Omg lol. The people outside my office are looking at me weird since I truly laughed out loud lol. That was the best response hehe. Thank you for your input :) to thread.
[+]
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-07 13:52:24  
Quetzalcoatl.Langly said: »
I dislike prescribing playstyles as much as the next guy, but if you're NOT using sange, you're hurting yourself. :\

If you're not using gearswap, it's almost impossible to use Sange and not lose your +1. Unless you're going to remove your equipset ammo into something nq, the potential loss of that ammo is more of a setback than the short-timed dps gain you get from activating sange.

I love the JA personally, but if you're someone who has shot well over 50 animikii bullets no matter how many times you try to be careful (like myself), you'd be willing to take the dps loss in exchange for keeping your golden shuriken.

2c
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-02-07 13:57:37  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I love the JA personally, but if you're someone who has shot well over 50 animikii bullets no matter how many times you try to be careful (like myself), you'd be willing to take the dps loss in exchange for keeping your golden shuriken.

2c

Speaking of bullets, Kinda wish they would change the single bullets to pouches (from akvan and Hurkan) there are no good options for magic bullets without the mythic.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-02-07 14:09:44  
Seki Shuriken vs Happo+1 is a pretty tiny sacrifice. Just get a seki pouch and keep one in inventory/wardrobe, the rest in sack. Then, if your gearswap has a mishap or you disable it, or you run out of NQ happo, you've still got 98 more occurances to go.

Not using Sange is ridiculous. The ability is amazing. The damage increase from Sange uptime completely demolishes any loss from the weaker ammo slot, you'd be significantly better off fulltiming NQ happo and using Sange than fulltiming HQ and not.
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-02-07 14:22:52  
Quetzalcoatl.Langly said: »
I dislike prescribing playstyles as much as the next guy, but if you're NOT using sange, you're hurting yourself. :\

This is true, but while I know I'm limiting my damage, I've generally been fine with it to avoid the headaches of tossing my good (and very hard to replace) ammo. Like Buukki, I've shot too many good COR bullets to trust myself with my fancy shuriken (which I have thrown once before!)

mhomho said: »
Is it a dps loss to use it or is it just no one wants to spend money on shurikens?
As for whether Sange is "worth using" purely from a DPS/JA delay perspective, it almost certainly is. Regardless of animation, the only actual delay is on JA activation, not on each Daken proc.

At perfect Racc, you're looking at non-Sange rate of an extra TP generating Daken attack on 51% of attack rounds (54% Daken rate * 95% Racc) versus a Sange up rate of an extra attack in 95% of attack rounds. Even assuming something like, say, a ~75% ranged hit rate, that's still a difference of over 30% more Daken procs that actually hit and generate TP (Daken hit in ~40.5% of non-Sange attack rounds, versus 75% with Sange up).

That can add up to a few more WS over time, possibly allow hitting a self SC or two where you might otherwise have been slightly too slow to reach TP, often add a little more TP overflow for WS, etc.

There should also be no concern about Daken being wasted due to additional attack priority. AFAIK, Daken just works like another form of multiattack (probably exactly the same priority-wise as Kick Attacks on MNK), and would never be wasted except presumably in the exceptionally rare case where you got a QA proc on both main and offhand in the same attack round, bringing you to the 8 attacks in one round hard cap (unconfirmed, but it's almost inconceivable to me that QA wouldn't take priority over the Daken check). We actually discussed this before in the main thread.

mhomho said: »
Am I the only Kannagi 119 -III in the thread?

Back somewhat onto the actual topic... Kannagi!

I'll be joining you shortly! Trying to finish up Riftborn Boulders now, if some impatient people wouldn't decide to swoop in and start paying 100k/stack more than the normal going rate... I've waited this long, I'm not in such a rush that I feel like paying an extra several million gil to get it done TODAY lol.
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By fonewear 2018-02-07 14:25:53  
What I want to know is if you complete this weapon. Will you create a thread so we can congratulate you?

Not even joking.

Please create this weapon for the good of the community.

If you were on my server I'd help you farm the heavy metals to make this happen.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-02-07 14:31:22  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Seki Shuriken vs Happo+1 is a pretty tiny sacrifice. Just get a seki pouch and keep one in inventory/wardrobe, the rest in sack. Then, if your gearswap has a mishap or you disable it, or you run out of NQ happo, you've still got 98 more occurances to go.

Not using Sange is ridiculous. The ability is amazing. The damage increase from Sange uptime completely demolishes any loss from the weaker ammo slot, you'd be significantly better off fulltiming NQ happo and using Sange than fulltiming HQ and not.

You're probably right, and I think I may have to just start doing this - at least for anything of consequence. Guess I can just keep the Happo+1 around for situations where I'm extremely focused on crits (like the Jan-Feb 2018 Ambuscade)

That being said, it's still something I'll save for serious fights, and not something I'd typically bother using on easy content just due to the annoyance of having to maintain stacks and stacks of shuriken. They go pretty damn quick when you consume one every single attack round when Sange is up, which is up to 1/3 of the time. Kind of obnoxious with no recycle like RNG and COR (I go through like 3 Omens with a single stack of ammo on my RNG...), and those jobs also have the benefit of good "free" ammo from RMEA ranged weapons. I think it was Snaps who even suggested on the official forum (and got an official "no plans to do that" kind of response) that RMEA Katana give some free shurikens like the ranged RMEA do, which I thought was a pretty good idea.

It's another cost too (19k/stack for Vendor Happo NQs), but that's just part of your consumable cost like food. Like food, I prob won't care on trivial content, I'll eat cheap food on stuff where I care a little more, and I'll eat good food and use Sange on difficult stuff.

That's the other aspect though: whether you bring NIN to "difficult stuff". Sange becomes truly useful in zerg-type situations anyway, and personally, when I am in that kind of situation I'm almost always going to be on a job that isn't NIN (prob WAR or COR or a tank). Makes it less likely that I'll care a ton.

fonewear said: »
What I want to know is if you complete this weapon. Will you create a thread so we can congratulate you?

Not even joking.

Please create this weapon for the good of the community.

If you were on my server I'd help you farm the heavy metals to make this happen.

I'll post it here for all to bask in my glory (and wastefulness). If anyone wants to server transfer and give me boulders, I'm not above groveling.
[+]
 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-02-07 14:41:08  
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Seki Shuriken vs Happo+1 is a pretty tiny sacrifice. Just get a seki pouch and keep one in inventory/wardrobe, the rest in sack. Then, if your gearswap has a mishap or you disable it, or you run out of NQ happo, you've still got 98 more occurances to go.

Not using Sange is ridiculous. The ability is amazing. The damage increase from Sange uptime completely demolishes any loss from the weaker ammo slot, you'd be significantly better off fulltiming NQ happo and using Sange than fulltiming HQ and not.

You're probably right, and I think I may have to just start doing this - at least for anything of consequence. Guess I can just keep the Happo+1 around for situations where I'm extremely focused on crits (like the Jan-Feb 2018 Ambuscade)

That being said, it's still something I'll save for serious fights, and not something I'd typically bother using on easy content just due to the annoyance of having to maintain stacks and stacks of shuriken. They go pretty damn quick when you consume one every single attack round when Sange is up, which is up to 1/3 of the time. Kind of obnoxious with no recycle like RNG and COR (I go through like 3 Omens with a single stack of ammo on my RNG...), and those jobs also have the benefit of good "free" ammo from RMEA ranged weapons. I think it was Snaps who even suggested on the official forum (and got an official "no plans to do that" kind of response) that RMEA Katana give some free shurikens like the ranged RMEA do, which I thought was a pretty good idea.

It's another cost too (19k/stack for Vendor Happo NQs), but that's just part of your consumable cost like food. Like food, I prob won't care on trivial content, I'll eat cheap food on stuff where I care a little more, and I'll eat good food and use Sange on difficult stuff.

That's the other aspect though: whether you bring NIN to "difficult stuff". Sange becomes truly useful in zerg-type situations anyway, and personally, when I am in that kind of situation I'm almost always going to be on a job that isn't NIN (prob WAR or COR or a tank). Makes it less likely that I'll care a ton.

fonewear said: »
What I want to know is if you complete this weapon. Will you create a thread so we can congratulate you?

Not even joking.

Please create this weapon for the good of the community.

If you were on my server I'd help you farm the heavy metals to make this happen.

I'll post it here for all to bask in my glory (and wastefulness). If anyone wants to server transfer and give me boulders, I'm not above groveling.
Nah I’ll meet you all past that. I’ll make a Hvergelmir AG.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-07 17:16:57  
Oh I'm in total agreement that sange+NQ beats HQ without sange. But God damnit man, dat white box
[+]
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-02-12 11:58:53  
I was thinking about Sange a bit more as I played around with it over the weekend. The one additional take-away was that it's striking to me that this is by far the most expensive consumable damage in the game.

RNG COR have minimal ammo costs these days, since all RMEA give free ammo, and both jobs have a lot of Recycle now. I can play for like 2 hours of almost non-stop shooting on my RNG before I go through a stack of ammo, and while COR consumes ammo faster it's not THAT bad with Recycle trait (30%), JPs (20%), and gifts (up to 8%), plus any recycle on gear (Adhemar legs, AF body, etc.)

Sange, on the other hand, goes through roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of a stack of shuriken with every use. At ~20k a pop for good shuriken (NQ Happo) from NPCs. So, if you were to use Sange every time it was up, that's 20 times per hour x 20k a use = about 5-6 stacks of shuriken per hour = roughly 100-120k gil/hour in shuriken.

Aside from food, other consumables for doing your job might include things like COR cards for QD, PUP automaton oil, BST jugs... but none of those add up to anything close to shuriken cost if you're frequently using Sange.

If money is no object to you, great, go all out all the time. I think the far more realistic scenario is that Sange is a tool that's used occasionally in a serious/difficult fight where you really want to maximize NIN DPS. Same way you might break out some expensive +1 food only in a truly worthwhile situation, you might choose to use Sange. In more typical scenarios, fine to leave Sange alone.

P.S. - also annoying that shuriken pouches only stack to 12. 99 would make it way less irritating to take up multiple inventory slots or make frequent trips back to the NPCs.