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Max theoretical DPS?
Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-20 09:11:30
DRG is at the top of that list if that is the criteria. Stardiver is the best WS in the game and nobody can come up with a logical reason otherwise.
Bismarck.Snprphnx
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2692
By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2018-02-20 09:11:36
I would say make the buffs job dependant. Like previously stated, Ifrit favor would benefit non-War jobs more than War, while Ramuhs would benefit Crit-based more. Also, I would say that, for the sake of maximizing all jobs possible DPS, lets assume that the mob looks in a single direction, and doesn't turn, and include a secondary "party dummy" standing behind the mob, so that THF can always use SA and TA.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2018-02-20 09:11:49
I'm the first reply, and I already did
By clearlyamule 2018-02-20 09:15:33
Valefor.Prothescar said: »sam with Yaegasumi up vs mob that spams tp moves for it to avoid awhile also riding all the buffs and multistepping for approximately infinity dps
funnily enough, if we want to go back in time then the maximum theoretical DPS actually did approach infinity the closer you got to 0 delay! though with the tools available back then you would never have been able to get very close to there. still impressive to watch old videos of rune chopper drks demolishing ***tho. Back when Apoc was actually good. Ah the days
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Bismarck.Snprphnx
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2692
By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2018-02-20 09:30:17
One contender that no one has mentioned is Ranger. I know, I know, LOL Ranger. But since we are maximizing all buffs on a stationary mob, consider this, properly geared and buffed, RNG/SAM can shoot > WS > shoot > WS, hitting up to 104k per WS with Hot Shot.
Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-20 09:40:03
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »One contender that no one has mentioned is Ranger. I know, I know, LOL Ranger. But since we are maximizing all buffs on a stationary mob, consider this, properly geared and buffed, RNG/SAM can shoot > WS > shoot > WS, hitting up to 104k per WS with Hot Shot.
Just did this this past weekend, and it was super fun. I had to get the finger coordination down, but once I did, it was amazing. Didn't even need Double Shot, and it resembles Overkill TP gain.
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By fonewear 2018-02-20 10:19:24
Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »Sylph.Citrelautame said: »
It's not hard to see what the OP is going for
This place makes Rain Man look like The Dude. Welcome to the internet.
And where do I find this internet ?
Valefor.Yandaime
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 747
By Valefor.Yandaime 2018-02-20 11:30:32
I have one you guys haven’t thought of (but it’s target dependent)
THF/WAR with a Stolen Mighty Strikes :D
Every time I’m fighting a WAR NM I steal it’s 2-Hour with Larceny and watch my DPS peak past 8k for a short time. Be prepared to keep Hybrid set though, spamming 60-70k Rudras will make you the tank for the rest of the fight xD
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サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3753
By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2018-02-20 11:58:49
I've never understood why so many people want to know what is essentially a mathematical equation, but remove variables. Why do we remove survivability? That's a huge reason why RUN dps's so well on targets like WoC and Albumen- they're alive the whole fight, and resist the statuses that crush DPS like stun, amnesia, and paralyze. Or rangers, corsairs, and pet jobs because we can hang out outside of the magical 20' radius so often.
It makes no sense to me to bring a job that on paper is a beast, but dies in the first 10% of a monster's health. In my shell, I've had a variation of the phrase posted earlier, I call it "The 4 Ds"- "Dead DDs Don't Dps". So save your Caladbolg DRKs in full DD gear. Build a hybrid set that doesn't deal as much damage per second but allows you to be alive for more seconds.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2018-02-20 12:09:34
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »I've never understood why so many people want to know what is essentially a mathematical equation, but remove variables. Why do we remove survivability? That's a huge reason why RUN dps's so well on targets like WoC and Albumen- they're alive the whole fight, and resist the statuses that crush DPS like stun, amnesia, and paralyze. Or rangers, corsairs, and pet jobs because we can hang out outside of the magical 20' radius so often.
It makes no sense to me to bring a job that on paper is a beast, but dies in the first 10% of a monster's health. In my shell, I've had a variation of the phrase posted earlier, I call it "The 4 Ds"- "Dead DDs Don't Dps". So save your Caladbolg DRKs in full DD gear. Build a hybrid set that doesn't deal as much damage per second but allows you to be alive for more seconds.
I go by the rule; If you die, you automatically lose parse, regardless how much damage you do.
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サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3753
By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2018-02-20 12:26:11
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »I've never understood why so many people want to know what is essentially a mathematical equation, but remove variables. Why do we remove survivability? That's a huge reason why RUN dps's so well on targets like WoC and Albumen- they're alive the whole fight, and resist the statuses that crush DPS like stun, amnesia, and paralyze. Or rangers, corsairs, and pet jobs because we can hang out outside of the magical 20' radius so often.
It makes no sense to me to bring a job that on paper is a beast, but dies in the first 10% of a monster's health. In my shell, I've had a variation of the phrase posted earlier, I call it "The 4 Ds"- "Dead DDs Don't Dps". So save your Caladbolg DRKs in full DD gear. Build a hybrid set that doesn't deal as much damage per second but allows you to be alive for more seconds.
I go by the rule; If you die, you automatically lose parse, regardless how much damage you do.
love it.
Asura.Cicion
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 211
By Asura.Cicion 2018-02-20 12:52:24
Ya Battuta's great when ***turns to smack ya. Something uses dreadspikes like Pw2 light runes Valiance can hit those spikes all day while others wait for dispel or die. I forgot about ranged jobs doing obscene hot shot damage
By Afania 2018-02-20 13:38:30
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »I've never understood why so many people want to know what is essentially a mathematical equation, but remove variables. Why do we remove survivability?
Straight zerg situation(without having to consider turtling or eating stuns) does exist though, so it's not THAT impractical to discuss it.
It's just that the fights are so short that WAR often get more advantage than the others.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 90
By Asura.Cloudblade 2018-02-20 15:01:10
Slightly off topic but it was mentioned so I'm counting it, I keep hearing about hot shot doing insane damage and actually doing above the damage cap. The only attack in the game that can break the cap is barrage, right (120K+'s aren't too difficult on certain enemies)? I get using it like jinpu with every buff available at max level, but jinpu can hit multiple times and still caps at 99,999.
On that note, given correct buffs and jobs being able to hit cap damage ws's, would the difference fall to white damage, tp gain, and sc potential more than ws dmg?
Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-20 15:05:50
Both Barrage and Hot shot can break damage cap.
By clearlyamule 2018-02-20 15:06:11
Probably just a matter of how they calculate when caps are applied and how that's likely slightly different with multihits since they probably never though hey what if hot shot did capped dmg plus some.
Bismarck.Snprphnx
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2692
By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2018-02-20 15:09:21
Slightly off topic but it was mentioned so I'm counting it, I keep hearing about hot shot doing insane damage and actually doing above the damage cap. The only attack in the game that can break the cap is barrage, right (120K+'s aren't too difficult on certain enemies)? I get using it like jinpu with every buff available at max level, but jinpu can hit multiple times and still caps at 99,999.
On that note, given correct buffs and jobs being able to hit cap damage ws's, would the difference fall to white damage, tp gain, and sc potential more than ws dmg?
No one knows exactly why Hot Shot breaks the damage cap while Jinpu doesn't. Both are hybrid WSs. One theory is it has a forced physical attack followed by the magical damage, then it's all combined into a single damage number in the chat log, similar to Barrage.
As far as where the difference lies... Since we're looking at a a dummy mob with AV2 stats, it may not be possible to fully cap damage at 99,999 per WS/nuke
By Sockfoot 2018-02-20 18:34:47
I think we need to define "theoretical".
This, nothing is defined by the OP and it's near impossible to say.
Not hitting fodder: attack not capped? If that's the case the RUN will fall behind other 2h since it's only really really good when attack is capped and ideally have warcry bonus up.
How long does the fight last? 1 min? 3 min? 10 min? Certain jobs gets huge advantage in shorter fights (WAR), without defining the length of the fight it's very hard to tell.
Do you get to prep buff before popping? Certain job with very high dps ceiling, such as DRK, needs a lot more prep time such as MB drain 3 9999 HP for soul eater, absorb stats, and get hit for scarlet delirium 50% dmg bonus. In practice we don't always get opportunity to activate everything because circumstances.
And do you get MP buffs or refill MP? Is raetic algol allowed? That would change things too.
So yeah, you get it. FFXI today doesn't work that way, there are too many factors that would affect DPS. I answered your question regarding attack capped. Fight length was mentioned.. buffs were mentioned. I covered the part about it not being realistic. Made no gear exclusions. In summary, I said "theoretical" AND answered most of your 'questions' before you posted that?
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »I've never understood why so many people want to know what is essentially a mathematical equation, but remove variables. Why do we remove survivability? That's a huge reason why RUN dps's so well on targets like WoC and Albumen- they're alive the whole fight, and resist the statuses that crush DPS like stun, amnesia, and paralyze. Or rangers, corsairs, and pet jobs because we can hang out outside of the magical 20' radius so often.
It makes no sense to me to bring a job that on paper is a beast, but dies in the first 10% of a monster's health. In my shell, I've had a variation of the phrase posted earlier, I call it "The 4 Ds"- "Dead DDs Don't Dps". So save your Caladbolg DRKs in full DD gear. Build a hybrid set that doesn't deal as much damage per second but allows you to be alive for more seconds. Because the purpose of this was to figure out what the highest *THEORETICAL* DD is, not what the best DD to bring to a 'X' fight is. All this was clearly laid out in the beginning: not realistic scenario, purely for curiosity, etc.
Oh yeah, Crystalline Blessing ftw, completely forgot about that.
I think we were kinda leaving out pet jobs and mages? OP didn't directly say but on a hunch I thought he had melee dps in mind. Going to respond to this one since the others were a bit longer and to save from a wall of quoted text.
Not necessarily leaving out pet jobs, though to be honest, I am not quite sure just HOW powerful SMN is at the moment. Of course in the span of AF/AC it is ridiculous, but given a 1 hour fight time (where everyone gets a chance to use their SPs and people have a chance to catch back up to SMN), I figured it would 'average' things out fairly well.
Reasonably assumed buffs, I don't think we should consider rotating WARs in for additional Warcrys, but the % uptime would be the way to go. Raetic makes things harder, but if someone can make a good argument for having it and keeping it active, so be it.
By Sockfoot 2018-02-20 19:04:34
edited to make one big post, same with above.
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9759
By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-20 20:08:20
The answer is simple, it's whatever job the OP wants to be best.
Everything in this game is situation and there are so many variables and controls that it's easy to weigh one particular job over the other by simply changing the required situation.
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By Sockfoot 2018-02-20 22:21:32
The answer is simple, it's whatever job the OP wants to be best.
Everything in this game is situation and there are so many variables and controls that it's easy to weigh one particular job over the other by simply changing the required situation. Great contribution! Wrong answer, though.
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Bismarck.Snprphnx
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2692
By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2018-02-20 23:16:13
The fact is, SE is either going to have to unlock the damage cap, or make mobs with insanely high def and magic def. The closer each job gets to the damage cap for whatever WS they want to spam, the less job variety we will see.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1150
By Fenrir.Richybear 2018-02-21 00:56:56
MNK/RDM
Self haste, AND enstone
By Afania 2018-02-21 01:02:53
....Why enstone.....
Real pros enfire for fire fist.
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By Nyarlko 2018-02-21 01:06:45
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »The fact is, SE is either going to have to unlock the damage cap, or make mobs with insanely high def and magic def. The closer each job gets to the damage cap for whatever WS they want to spam, the less job variety we will see. Actually, the more jobs that hit the 99,999 damage cap consistently, the greater the job variety we will see since there will be more valid options to choose from.
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@Sockfoot: What is the point of this exercise? I don't believe that there are any 1hr fights left in the game at all at this point. All ilvl content has literal timers counting down, most GFNMs have 15min limits, and the big guys are 45min max I believe.. Maybe 30min? :/ Point being, your setup is so deep into theoretical territory that it at least borders on impossibility and is well into the realm of meaninglessness.
Cut your timeframe to 15min/30min to be realistic and possibly find some useful information.
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By Sylph.Cherche 2018-02-21 01:29:12
I assume the purpose is for shits and giggles.
Bahamut.Snore
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14
By Bahamut.Snore 2018-02-21 01:56:59
My RDM wins in all set ups, come at me. I even parse more than you when i'm dead.
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2011
By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2018-02-21 02:01:16
To get the highest parse in a party in FFXI, you need a Resist Charm build, then fight some NM with charm-ga, then eliminate your other charmed party members
You'll have the highest parse because you will have murdered everybody else
easy
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Which job, in perfect gear and full buffs, could output the highest theoretical DPS in two scenarios:
1) Able to SC with self (no one else spamming WS)
2) EVERYONE spamming so no SC dmg counts
Let's say on something like Warder of Courage (or equivalent stats, no mechanics to worry about). Again, perfect setup for each (so basically a spreadsheet battle). Purely out of curiosity, no need to bring any ePeen in here as we all know this wouldn't transfer over to the game..
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