String Theory: A Puppetmaster's Guide *NEW*

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Puppet Master » String Theory: A Puppetmaster's Guide *NEW*
String Theory: A Puppetmaster's Guide *NEW*
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 Bismarck.Cloudxi
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By Bismarck.Cloudxi 2019-04-22 23:17:54  
so with the new (ish) ambu h2h, i think asuran is the best WS for pup (at least from eye balling the numbers). opinions, and best sets for it if people feeling like diving into it please
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By Aerix 2019-04-22 23:49:45  
I don't have the HTH yet, but what kind of numbers were you getting with and without buffs?
 Bismarck.Cloudxi
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By Bismarck.Cloudxi 2019-04-23 01:21:30  
nothing great, doin apex bats in outer ruins. around 6.5k with trusts. was nice cause i could 3 step though with pet.
 Bismarck.Cloudxi
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By Bismarck.Cloudxi 2019-04-23 01:23:43  
i like this WS because i don't need to gear for crit or double attack. since it can't crit and its already 8 hits. tp is a boost to acc, so really just boosting attack and str
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By sharazisspecial 2019-04-23 02:38:12  
Prefer my Howling Fist 11-25k+ on Xiucoatl path C...
Boosts puppets wsd as well.
Causing skillchains closed by it to hit hard and often close to cap damage if using speedloader.

Ambu hand2hand seems to be a MNK designed weapon
Like how Ambu axe imo is a warrior designed weapon instead of for BST (which is what I made it for >_<.)
Both these weapons rely on powerful self buffs.

On the other hand Ambu sword, club and I think dagger are all hitting large ws numbers without powerful self buffs, making them more universal weapons.
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By Vishwambhari 2019-04-23 03:08:30  
Bismarck.Cloudxi said: »
i like this WS because i don't need to gear for crit or double attack. since it can't crit and its already 8 hits. tp is a boost to acc, so really just boosting attack and str
I don't want to sound like an *** here, but are you saying you like the WS for being bad with no real margins for improvements?
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-04-23 04:00:30  
It does have a certain appeal to it... no matter how well you gear for it, it can't ever really get any better. or worse.

it'll always just be (6500) no spikes, no wild lows, no extra gear to make space for

And if you're not really putting a lot of effort into smite/pummel/howling +50% damage on a ws you literally can't put effort into looks lovely.
 Asura.Chaostaru
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By Asura.Chaostaru 2019-04-23 04:21:48  
so are all tension springs just obsolete now that Truesights and Magniplug's are here? according to bg guide
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By Aerix 2019-04-23 08:32:06  
Tension Springs are useful when you can't use Inhibitors or Speedloaders due to the AI.
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 Asura.Chaostaru
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By Asura.Chaostaru 2019-04-23 17:23:26  
Ok cool, Thats what I ended up doing.
 Asura.Fabiano
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By Asura.Fabiano 2019-04-23 23:54:45  
Anyone care to share their experiences and attachment setups for overdrive soloing the 4 escha ru'aun gods? If even possible?

The only one I've done in the past is Suzaku (jammers, steam jacket and a weakness to piercing made it pretty easy) but I'm thinking of trying the other 3 soon. In particular I am wondering how to get around byakko's level up mechanic solo...
 Bismarck.Cloudxi
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By Bismarck.Cloudxi 2019-04-23 23:55:09  
Vishwambhari said: »
Bismarck.Cloudxi said: »
i like this WS because i don't need to gear for crit or double attack. since it can't crit and its already 8 hits. tp is a boost to acc, so really just boosting attack and str
I don't want to sound like an *** here, but are you saying you like the WS for being bad with no real margins for improvements?
nope, you are right, its a very easy one to gear with the limitations of pup. and i personally think with that h2h its pretty good.
 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-04-24 00:32:28  
Asura.Fabiano said: »
Anyone care to share their experiences and attachment setups for overdrive soloing the 4 escha ru'aun gods? If even possible?

The only one I've done in the past is Suzaku (jammers, steam jacket and a weakness to piercing made it pretty easy) but I'm thinking of trying the other 3 soon. In particular I am wondering how to get around byakko's level up mechanic solo...

Use high pdt attachments, and a possible way to deal dark or earth damage. Even auto attacks have a chance to proc white. I don't play pup, but have seen people solo all 4 gods yes.
 Asura.Fabiano
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By Asura.Fabiano 2019-04-25 21:02:04  
Asura.Fabiano said: »
Anyone care to share their experiences and attachment setups for overdrive soloing the 4 escha ru'aun gods? If even possible?

The only one I've done in the past is Suzaku (jammers, steam jacket and a weakness to piercing made it pretty easy) but I'm thinking of trying the other 3 soon. In particular I am wondering how to get around byakko's level up mechanic solo...

Trip report on soloing escha gods:
  • Suzaku = defeated. Mana Jammer/Steam Jacket flex slots. Was very easy to solo.

  • Byakko = defeated. Armorplate4/Steam Jacket flex slots. Turns out I worried for nothing as the Gravitation part of the 4-step skillchain not only deals a huge chunk of damage but keeps his level ups in check.

  • Seiryu = defeated. Armorplate4/Galvanizer flex slots. Galvanizer was key -- my first attempt (without galvanizer) was a failure as the additional effect from Hundred Fist damage was really chunking my Automaton down forcing me to sit in tank set which was slow, but Galvanizer hard-countered him.

  • Genbu = undefeated. so much health and defense, as well as so much stalling with invincible. tortoise stomp and head butt also dealt significant damage to the automaton... need to think of an attachment setup to really increase my damage output within the overdrive window to kill it in time. Any suggestions?

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By clearlyamule 2019-04-25 21:36:36  
Genbu stumped me. At lower hps it can invincible so much that at times he can chain them together before I get a single ws in so I've spent several minutes effectively dealing near 0 dmg.

Only thing I could think of is maybe doing a mage build setup to self skillchain and then MB but doubt that would be fast enough assuming you could even get it to work
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By Aerix 2019-04-26 03:38:38  
For what it's worth: you don't even need Jammers for Suzaku. Steam Jacket+ARK4 easily take care of all magic damage it can deal.

As for Genbu, he's pretty much a soft counter to any melee setups. Maybe some sort of Companion's Roll+Magic Mortar setup could potentially work since he often reduces maton HP, but I doubt it would deal damage quickly enough before OD runs out. But you may be able to outlast him beyond that.

Seiryu is basically the same as Shedu. Galvanizer hard counters both of them in case you have any interest in doing that UNM135.
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 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2019-05-21 03:12:59  
This has probably been asked/answered before, even maybe by me, but I keep forgetting and not seeing it said, for the Relic boosts to Fine-tuning / Optimization, are they at Activate-ion, or only when worn?
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-05-21 03:25:24  
Optimization bonus on the head is effective only when worn.
There was a time when Taj was a decent option for automton nuking because of that (mostly because of lack of better options back then, it's no longer the case today of course)

Not sure on Fine-Tuning augs but pretty confident it's exactely the same.
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By Nariont 2019-05-21 06:15:00  
yes only active while equipped on both, not that the augments are worthwhile either way
 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2019-05-21 06:32:37  
Nariont said: »
yes only active while equipped on both, not that the augments are worthwhile either way

Would have been worth making for activation, but not at all worth it if they need to be kept on.

Edit for two things:

1) Are they serious with the difference between Rao Kabuto and Rao Kabuto+1 base stats? That's level 75 era HQ/NQ differences...

2) If I'm doing master+pup damage in say card farming, what auto would I want to use? Been using valor head/sharpshot frame for most things, and I like the Stringing > pet > Victory combo, just trying to fine tune.
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-05-21 06:38:14  
Taj is an excellent idle piece though, even though I doubt that matters in nowaday's meta.

Hands used to be an incredibly awesome option for Automaton damage or hybrid builds. That might be no longer the case given the plethora of similar pet: haste options we get nowadays.

I think they can still be somewhat worth it because of the WSD+10% though. So that's something you should think about, more than the Fine-tuning aug which is pretty meh.
It's kinda, I dunno, icing on the cake if you use them regardless for other reasons.
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By Nariont 2019-05-21 06:45:06  
oh im not discounting taj itself, it is indeed a nice idle piece, isnt even terrible acc/atk for puppet+master, and hands are your wsd piece as stated, just saying the augments arent worth much even if they were active on saying activate.

As for omen cards, i only tried it a few times, wasnt happy with it since i -think- puppet cant hit the melee round obj or the WS obj, so relying on master for both those, but yes thats your go-to frame in there for clearing trash
 Cerberus.Jiko
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By Cerberus.Jiko 2019-05-21 07:40:41  
Quick question: The "dream gear" on the wiki, are they the current BiS or are they a little out of date? I've seen a few different sets and I'm just looking for what I should really be aiming for. Thanks.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-05-21 07:41:45  
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
1) Are they serious with the difference between Rao Kabuto and Rao Kabuto+1 base stats? That's level 75 era HQ/NQ differences...
Acc is actually 42 and not 32, plus you have the augs which are roughly 25% stronger on the HQ.

But yeah, kinda, I dunno, meh? It's only 5 mils for the HQ though, so pretty cheap considering how fat your bank is :-P


What are you getting it for though? Path C can be worth it for tanking (personally I prefer Taeon but random augmentation irritates me), maybe path B for some WS.
I can't remember which other good options PUP has for WS gear in the head slot, other than Dark Matter/Fer augmented gear with WSD 5%.
...which you probably already have honestly. So yeah why are you bothering with Rao Kabuto +1 to begin with, if I may inquire?
 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2019-05-21 08:12:30  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
1) Are they serious with the difference between Rao Kabuto and Rao Kabuto+1 base stats? That's level 75 era HQ/NQ differences...
Acc is actually 42 and not 32, plus you have the augs which are roughly 25% stronger on the HQ.

But yeah, kinda, I dunno, meh? It's only 5 mils for the HQ though, so pretty cheap considering how fat your bank is :-P


What are you getting it for though? Path C can be worth it for tanking (personally I prefer Taeon but random augmentation irritates me), maybe path B for some WS.
I can't remember which other good options PUP has for WS gear in the head slot, other than Dark Matter/Fer augmented gear with WSD 5%.
...which you probably already have honestly. So yeah why are you bothering with Rao Kabuto +1 to begin with, if I may inquire?

Wiki says it's BiS for the Stringing Pummel. I have an old NQ for pet HP. Whenever a better SP piece comes around I can just shift the HQ to path C for pet purposes.

Sometimes I just don't know why I do things.

But good to know that the text is buffed. Guess I'm just used to looking at +2/+3 JSE and su3 gear lately where all attributes get +5 per tier as well and all Rao NQ to HQ gives attribute-wise is STR+1, which is silly.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-05-21 09:17:06  
STR+1 and Acc+10!

Are you sure the guide is updated? And whomever compiled the guide, is he reliable?
In which situation is Rao Kabuto+1 BiS for Stringing Pummel?
Is Stringing Pummel even the best WS to use?
With R15 KKK for sure, but is KKK the BiS weapon for PUP?
Maybe for situations where you want damage split hybridly between you and your pet, but what about other situations?

And so on and so on. Some are silly questions I know but it was just for the sake of making examples.

My point is that I wouldn't take for granted that Rao Kabuto +1 is BiS for Stringing Pummel.



Edit:
At a quick glance yeah, I'd dare to say Rao+1 path B is probably BiS for Stringing Pummel and probably Victory Smite as well.
I kinda forgot how some pieces I was taking for granted are not actually useable by PUP.
Sheeesh... Gear-wise PUP still has it hard these days compared to most other jobs. Shame =/
 Asura.Fabiano
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By Asura.Fabiano 2019-05-21 09:37:16  
Asura.Sechs said: »
At a quick glance yeah, I'd dare to say Rao+1 path B is probably BiS for Stringing Pummel and probably Victory Smite as well.
I kinda forgot how some pieces I was taking for granted are not actually useable by PUP.
Sheeesh... Gear-wise PUP still has it hard these days compared to most other jobs. Shame =/

Yes, PUP's options for gear is awful... o(≧∇≦o)

Rao Kabuto+1 wins by virtue of it having seriously no real competition in that slot... lol

I'm fairly certain the pummel/smite WS sets I put in the guide are up to date. The only points of contention I can see is abnoba kaftan vs. Heyoka harness +1 and Hizamaru hizayoroi +2 vs. rao haidate +1(B). Infact, I should add those 2 alternatives as a sidenote...

I'm always open to feedback though!
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By Nariont 2019-05-21 09:56:48  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Sheeesh... Gear-wise PUP still has it hard these days compared to most other jobs. Shame =/

Yup, better than it was in the past but whether it be pet focused gear or master focused, its largely bargain bin tier, woulda been nice to get on adhemar and/or have rao give pets stats akin to what emicho gets, but that's how it is.

A not-***jse neck woulda been nice too, least the weapon was good
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-05-21 10:02:42  
Asura.Fabiano said: »
Haven't tested on a spreadsheet and going exclusively on a hunch, but for Vsmite I'd be possibly leaning towards Hizamaru in the legs slot. Uhmm...
For Stringing Pummel uuuh, I dunno.

Are you assuming capped attack? Would the additional DEX on Rao provide 1/2% more Crit or are you assuming capped dDEX?
Those things probably do matter.
At capped dDEX and attack, Hizamaru should win.
7% WSD on first hit, -8 STR, +17 VIT

Uncapped Att and/or uncapped dDex Rao+1 might pull ahead?

Again, just throwing quick opinions, no real and reliable math behind my blabbering.
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By Aerix 2019-05-22 02:06:03  
Not sure if it's 100% accurate as I may have made a mistake, but plugging Rao Haidate+1 vs. Hizamaru legs+2 into a modified MNK spreadsheet has Rao Haidate+1 winning on lvl 135 Apex Bats for both SP and VS below Attack cap and also at Attack cap with uncapped dDEX.

That aside, PUP will rarely find itself in capped Attack situations to begin with (unless you have several buff mules), so the massive +63 Attack on Rao Haidate+1 is very useful.

I also have Rao Kabuto+1 only barely losing against pretty much impossibly augmented STR/CritDmg Herculean at Attack cap and winning below Attack cap.
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