String Theory: A Puppetmaster's Guide *NEW*

Sorry to go off-topic here, could someone explain the method for sacking wave3 fetters with pup please?

It's so Funny , when they said Pup can't tank.... and use pup on Wave 3 ... because all the other tank died mostly from it ...


Love pup <3, fell sad for who doesn't Play it.

You deploy your auto on the fetter, pull it NM tied to fetter and Volte mobs away, alliance kills fetter, release auto, move to next fetter. It's the fastest way to get Dyna clears if you only care about the clear.
Now, a few of the pulls are not as straightforward and take finesse but I've done all four zones with this. Paladin can do something similar with sac pulling and Twilight set but PUP works better for it.

Ok my last video seemed to light a bonfire beneath the community and I said I'd put together a follow-up video where I will address concerns. Here it is then, it took a few days to do since I've got work to do in RL still but hey-ho; better late than never.

❤️

This is the best and most accurate FFXI image I've seen.

... there are a few mobs like WoC that will ignore an automaton's enmity. I don't know that this is a good argument against PUP tanking though?

In before "April fools, haha, just kidding guys. Please like and subscribe!"

I unsubscribed.... Had enough.

I Think you are misreading it, he means it as "In his previous video", I don't think He's baiting Youtube with the idea that "This is his final YT video He'll ever upload".

Just two controversial videos is all it took and the PUP guide thread went from largely constructive to 4+ pages being filled by a bunch of shitposts. Lovely.

If your whole forum is trolls, know your bait

If the whole forum is filled with snowflakes that react the way they do, expect trolls.

I barely know why I'm weighing in here, but:

1) PUP and NIN are two of my best geared jobs that I know very well and understand their potential for tanking (and I also have a well equipped Epeo RUN). To include NIN in that video as a current tank but not PUP is pretty laughable. I find 10x the practical endgame uses for PUP tank than I do for NIN (which is pretty damn niche, for stuff like Halphas, the rare Ambu or UNM, etc.). Hell, the guy Rua featured in his video as NIN (Logical) does Dyna with me - he's a very good NIN too! - but do we ever have him NIN tank in Dyna? Nope, aside from maybe being a backup for Halphas if our main PLD or RUN eats it. Do we regularly use PUP tanks on Jeuno/Bastok and wave 3 fetter mobs? Yep.


2) PUP is obviously a viable tank for lots of things. Some situations where I like it include:
- tanking where mages/SMNs/pets are the significant damage source (enmity isn't a big issue there)
- pulling/holding Divergence wave 3 mobs and laughing as they do no damage to the puppet while party picks them off one at a time
- anything with charm
- some annoying specific NMs (Dyna Jeuno or Bastok wave 2 boss)
- certain Ambuscades
- Omen bosses
- Places where you want a "disposable" tank (I like it for Odin HTBF with SMNs, and can just toss out a brand new puppet if Zantetsuken Kai kills it; similar approach works with mobs like Kyou). Hell of a lot better than NIN having one Mijin Gakure weakness reset and loss of buffs - I can pop out a new puppet with no weakness and no need to re-buff, every minute or less.

PUP is NOT good as a tank with a bunch of well geared heavily buffed melees, due to enmity control. Just use a PLD or RUN in that situation.

Some of the other complaints can be dealt with. Hate reset? Come /WAR and do a quick provoke->ventriloquy, or just cycle out all fire or light maneuvers in anticipation of a predictable move (say, Omen boss using moves at set HP%), then put one up to trigger strobe/flash immediately after the move. A lot of PUPs could also do better at swapping in pet enmity+ gear (like Su3) in advance of a flash/voke

3) Re: Aerix, it's absurd for anyone to suggest he doesn't know what he's talking about for PUP. Whether he considers PUP a job for "fun" or not, dude has been one of the most informative posters on this forum for a very long time. For ages, he has been helping people push PUP to its full potential more than almost anyone here. I know it seems that already got corrected, but I can't let it go without including my voice in support of Aerix's PUP knowledge.

Good points that can be contended.

Still not had anyone come forward and be willing to offer audio to the real follow up, I think that’d go a long way. I’ve had two people contact me on discord with their thoughts which is great, but I think people can’t just take my voice for it.

Cap did a great job right there with the summary. I only want to kick one beehive.
This is basically ~95% of all group play. Zerg it or don't bother. Obviously not all people get to or insist on playing that way. But the herd mentality is that. That's why pup isn't a tank, that's why shits broken, that's something that has needed to change/be fixed for years. That's already been said a dozen times and it'll be said a dozen more. PUP is a fantastic (situational) sub-optimal strat tank.

Honestly, just wish they would fix some of the fundamental problems with PUP. Mostly tied to poor AI/design. Can't really swap into pet ws gear because how it is designed. Not to mention a lot of the attachments messing with the AI. How it is a huge dps loss to swap into a hybrid set at all.

I hate to go off-topic since this is the PUP thread and I know a lot has been said about WAR already, but even if zerging is the default I have yet to see any footage of WAR tanking anything worthwhile that isn't faceroll content (at this point in the game). Even Ruau's footage, while talking about WAR tank, has a RUN tanking in MT4 instead.

Since pretty much every job can reach a 50% DT Hybrid set (even if it's less optimized than WAR's) it's basically just replacing the actual tank with another DD who won't get killed easily, but you're likely still just trading hate around all the time unless using Foe Sirvente. If there are any WARs who have actually tanked something like all HELMs, all Volte Commanders or W2-W3 Mega Bosses from start to finish while keeping hate I'd be really interested in hearing more about it.

But just looking at the current meta, you really could replace WAR with any 50% DT DD and have them hold hate over mages. MNK and DRK do it all the time as well, it doesn't make WAR particularly special in my opinion.

A PUP tank, on the other hand, enables many different or new approaches to beating certain content even if they're completely off-meta. PUP may be a niche tank, but that niche is extremely useful and no other "tank" job can replicate that--not even RUN or PLD. That alone makes PUP an actual tank, while other jobs (minus NIN and BLU perhaps, but they're even more niche) are just Hybrid DDs who are enjoying being powerful in outdated content.

Eiryl definitely hones in on the most sound argument there is in support of "who cares about PUP tank" - the melee zerg or GTFO mentality. But still, I am finding actual uses for PUP tanks in 2020 in current popular endgame content without having to look too hard. It's not the majority of stuff I do, but my Dyna group still frequently uses PUP for Dyna wave 3 and Bastok/Jeuno wave 2 bosses, I still use PUP for Odin HTBF.

Probably also worth a reminder that some of PUP tanking's best moments were when Geas Fete was new content and it was much harder/less common for groups to win with melee zergs. Automaton tank and SCH/BLM parties were fantastic at that time: minimal enmity control issues and very safe tanking, without a need for a lot of support. We're talking about stuff like Zi'tah T3s at release, Ru'aun T2/T3/AA/Gods (minus Kirin), to the majority of Reisenjima T2s and the occasional HELM (Teles). It's certainly plausible that with either new less melee-friendly content (or just buffs to nukes), that situation could arise again. I get that isn't the state of the game today, but it wasn't that long ago and wouldn't be that inconceivable to pop up again.

And before anyone counters with "BUT RAYKE/GAMBIT!", yes, RUN is often really good too for nuke-heavy setups. But those JAs are on timers and RUN does require more healer focus (extra body = higher HP scaling). And at the very least, you're probably talking about situations where RUN and PUP are the top two tank choices. Certainly significant enough use for PUP that it's worth mentioning as a viable tank in such cases.


Also, thanks Rua for being thoughtful about this and discussing it. I'm not your voiceover guy, but I do appreciate your effort to engage and provide further updates.

Capuchin:

I can I go back on on-topic?

I managed to drag myself through enough Ambu to make a Karambit. How concerned do I need to be about losing Auto DPS using such a master-centric weapon? I'm doing way more dmg on master than with my Ohtas!

Like most pet jobs (sans Dragoon), your pet damage is going to matter a lot more in most content that anything the master will do. If you're building a master set on pup centered around Karambit for fun, it's your playtime; Do what you want with it. If you're wondering if using it will somehow ever be better than building a weapon and set around your pet, probably not.

Should get Midnights, path D, over Karambit.

Focusing on DD gear for the master will net you overall far more damage in any situation where you are able to melee yourself and can get decent buffs. However, those situations are often far and far between.

Especially since the HTH update the master damage is significantly higher than the maton's, so outside of pet burning content it often pays to gear up for that. CP, Omen, Odyssey, Dynamis-D, certain Ambus etc. are all content where you can reasonably DD yourself if your group doesn't object.

It depends on how much you engage. Master damage has been worth way more than pet damage since the H2H WS update + addition of malignance gear. Pet is basically just for pointing things away from you, lowering def and linking chains outside of overdrive shenanigans because we can melee with the pet on a lot more content and master damage >> pet damage.

Moonbow Belt/+1, 4/5 Malignance with Heyoka head and pet: haste cape is 16% pet haste, great master MEva & -DT then you have accessory slots and other cape aug slots to do with as you please. Honestly, 16% pet gear haste is enough to be a chain linker with turbo chargers and inhibitors on. You don't even need that if using pure tank pet because chances are you are uncapped attack if you need full tank pet so you'll be using howling fist, not chaining.

I've recently switched to 4/5 ventriloquy with relic legs because even with dual strobes you pull hate from the thing all the time. Being able to pass your CE and VE over +40% while reducing what you get from the pet has been nice and keeps things glued to it.

I do think its funny that everyone saying pup won't hold enmity for heavy dd's. and at the beginning of your vid, you give mention to how wonderful bard is for Adventurer's dirge. Which was always great, but no one bothered because it was behind merit points.

The simple, straightforward, easy implication is that w/ Dirge on, the dd's will take alot longer to cap hate. A good pup can cap hate w/out much trouble. However, they cannot cap it as fast as a run or pld. They do KEEP it VERY well.

once a dd's enmity is capped, it will pull hate from any tank. Things will bounce around a bit.

Pup's weaknesses as a tank are 2:
It cannot manage multiple targets well at all. It can supertank VERY well, but as soon as there is player enmity on an add, forget it.

2. It doesn't have a good IMMEDIATE way to grab hate back IF it is pulled off. You cannot manually trigger the enmity abilities on pup. So there is some delay. Imo, this is 80%+ countered by how well pups retain enmity due to NOT taking damage and having high HP pool.

One of the biggest pro's is that pup doesn't need a healer to tank. and master can stay safe at tremendous range and till tank effectively.

so, its weak on crowd control, but big on sustainability damage mitigation, and good/moderate on enmity management.

Its much more viable than ninja or warrior for tanking. It HONESTLY competes with RUN and PLD but situationally varies more than those 2.


Run and PLD can both tank most any situation. Pup can tank in at least 80% of content VERY well. Ninja and warrior are plenty niche.


I would be willing to argue my case for pup tanking end game in an audio clip.

But normally VS? I do Double Lights with Armour Shatterer in CP usually.

Yeah making double light with VS if using SS frame to get def down going. Auto only needs to reach 1k TP at half master speed for that as you open and close, so again capped pet haste isn't strictly needed, or useful compared to better master performance IMO.