Italian Politics: How Not To Govern

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フォーラム » Everything Else » Politics and Religion » Italian politics: how not to govern
Italian politics: how not to govern
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2018-05-31 06:05:16  
Ok, I suppose hardly anyone here is interested, but maybe one or two people care about what happens around the globe, so here's a breakdown of Italy's political mess(worse than usual).

We had elections in march but due to a terrible electoral law passed last year the parliament is hung, and we've pretty much been left to anarchy the past 2 months.
To give you a better understanding I'll list you the 6 parties that managed to gain seats in the parliament/senate.

Democratic Party (PD)
Born from the shambles of the old Christian Democrats that ruled Italy for about 40 years and the socialist party, PD is centre-left. Very centre, little left(pun intended). They've also been in power the last cycle(2013-2018 with Letta, Renzi and Gentiloni), slowly and cautiously sailing the country out of the recession. We've gotten better compared to the 2008-2012 period, but not enough to make people happy. It's the party of turtle-like advancement, safe but hella slow. They have the closest ties to the strongest EU governments, but are ultimately uninspiring and dropped really bad in last elections going from the 40% of 2013 to only 18%~.

Right-wing coalition
This one is comprised of three parties as of now:
Lega
Used to be North League, a party of "racists"(towards italians of the south)that badly pushed for the northern part of Italy to secede, they used to be a niche political force but ever since Salvini took hold of the party they dropped the North from the name and tried to establish themselves as a national party. They are still strongly xenophobic(Salvini famously and non jokingly said we should steamroll gypsies with caterpillars), strongly anti-EU, pro-Putin, pushing for an unsustainable 15% flat tax and decrease of retirement age. They grew strongly in the past couple of years and attested themselves at 17%~ last elections.
Forza Italia (FI)
The party that Berlusconi founded in the early 90s. Supposed to be the more moderate of the right-wing parties, it still offers the same platform as 20 years ago. They're the ones who devised the flat tax idea(though they said 20%, which is still too low for our state), but they are more friendly to the EU, eager to form coalitions with anyone, and generally not credible, especially cause Berlusconi is still there. They got 16%~ last elections.
Brothers of Italy (FdI)
Fascists in (poor)disguise. They got about 4%~.

Free and Equal (LeU)
What is left of the socialists in Italy. They do a very poor job at representing people with socialist values as they are unorganized, lack ideas, cohesion and most notably a charismatic and credible leader. They've been a complete disaster so far and in fact barely got into parliament with only about 3%~ of the votes.

5 Star Movement (M5S)
Anti-establishment, pro-environment, pushing for a time-limited unemployment income(which they dishonestly advertise as universal income)...and that's it. They were born from political satirist Grillo as a protest movement against the establishment, they've been the main responsibles for the spread of facts I don't like in Italy the past few years(conspiracy theories of many kinds and, the one that angered me the most the anti-vax agenda). They've grown rapidly over the past few years riding people's anger and disappointement with the financial crisis, but the truth is they offer no solutions to anything, they're only good at protesting(or rather insulting as that's the most they've done in these years). Their current leader Di Maio(poorly educated 30 year old who's never worked in his life)is known for contradicting himself at every interview and would basically say anything to obtain consensus. They're currently the strongest single party in Italy as they obtained 32%~ of the votes last election, though mostly in the south as our regions are very poor and the (mistaken)promise of universal income attracted a lot of voters.


Post-elections: what now?
The way our electoral law works is a bit convuluted, but to put it into simple terms there needs to be a majority of at least 40% in the two chambers in order to form a stable government. This means nobody won(despite the claims of both M5S and the right-wing coalition).
President Mattarella made many attempts with the various parties asking if they were able to form any alliance and make something out of this mess. Nothing happened for 2 months, then suddenly Lega and M5S got together to try to make it amongst them.
After a couple of weeks the result was an insane mess of a program that included the main points of both parties - something so unsustainable and unrealistic for our coffers that is said it would cause a hole of about 150 billions optimistically. But the point of main contention came when they proposed some old man called Savona as minister of economy and fincances: this guy's plan for our economy is to basically either leave the €, or to drag the entire eurozone into default so that "the currency can be renegotiated from scratch". Genius.
Mattarella perplexed at all this and very worried about our already crippled economy said no. He's only letting them get into power if they suggest a more reasonable ecnonomy minister.
Di Maio and Salvini got angry, claimed that Italy is a slave to Eurobrureaucrats(on this topic german EU politician Oettinger didn't help as he ominously said "markets will teach italians how to vote"). Di Maio even went as far as attacking the President, calling for an impeachment(which is unreasonable as Mattarella could refuse the minister as per the Constitution), but more worringly went into squares rallying people against the President and calling for a march on Rome(why hello fascism).

Now we are at an impasse, with probable new elections in september. It's hard to understand what will happen, in terms of consensus Lega keeps growing(polls say it's over 25% now), but FI is tanking so the coalition may or may not reach the 40% barrier. On the other side M5S are losing some steam, but remain strong. Some suggest Lega and M5S might run together to propose the same thing again, which begs the question...what's the point?

tldr: Italy is in an even more chaotic situation than usual, our economy is getting ravaged even more by market speculation(Spread over 250% lol), and our hopes for the future rely on insane economic policies. It makes you wonder if it isn't best to just abandon ship while still possible.
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 Carbuncle.Stiltz
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By Carbuncle.Stiltz 2018-05-31 08:22:10  
If I wrote this, this thread would've been deleted already.

Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Salvini famously and non jokingly said we should steamroll gypsies with caterpillars
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2018-05-31 08:31:27  
Carbuncle.Stiltz said: »
If I wrote this, this thread would've been deleted already.
I gave a perspective from the inside of our current state. What is the matter?
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By Carbuncle.Stiltz 2018-05-31 08:40:23  
Slowly read what you just quoted very carefully and very literally.
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By Viciouss 2018-05-31 08:41:58  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Carbuncle.Stiltz said: »
If I wrote this, this thread would've been deleted already.
I gave a perspective from the inside of our current state. What is the matter?

You're fine seha just ignore him.
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By fonewear 2018-05-31 09:09:31  
This thread must make it to page 9 to achieve political stability in Italy.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2018-05-31 09:18:14  
I do belive this is the fastest I have ever seen a government fall.

I am somehow reminded of the Marx brothers' Fredonia.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2018-05-31 10:07:22  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
I do belive this is the fastest I have ever seen a government fall.
Considering that the PM proposed by Lega and M5S, Conte, stepped down at the presentation of the list of ministries, and that Cottarelli, the technocrat proposed by Mattarella got shot down before he even walked into parliament to talk about it...it's pretty hard to do it any faster!

Quote:
Di Maio even went as far as attacking the President, calling for an impeachment(which is unreasonable as Mattarella could refuse the minister as per the Constitution), but more worringly went into squares rallying people against the President and calling for a march on Rome(why hello fascism).
Btw he already retracted and now talks about how important it is to collaborate with the President. Lol this guy...
 
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By fonewear 2018-05-31 11:35:32  
DirectX said: »
Who really cares about Italy though? What do they contribute to the world?
We have the recipes now, they are no longer necessary.

The world couldn't exist without Italy think of all the mafia and wine and fancy shoes. That is what the world really needs right now. Really expensive shoes.
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By fonewear 2018-05-31 11:36:39  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Carbuncle.Stiltz said: »
If I wrote this, this thread would've been deleted already.
I gave a perspective from the inside of our current state. What is the matter?
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 Asura.Tydis
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By Asura.Tydis 2018-05-31 12:43:00  
DirectX said: »
Who really cares about Italy though? What do they contribute to the world?
We have the recipes now, they are no longer necessary.
The most popular Italian knock-off dish we have in the UK is Spaghetti Bolognese, it's not even Italian and is considered an insult to many Italians.

Also, pleasantly surprised to see a worse run country than our own right now, makes me feel ever so slightly better.
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By fonewear 2018-05-31 12:47:05  
Asura.Tydis said: »
DirectX said: »
Who really cares about Italy though? What do they contribute to the world?
We have the recipes now, they are no longer necessary.
The most popular Italian knock-off dish we have in the UK is Spaghetti Bolognese, it's not even Italian and is considered an insult to many Italians.

Also, pleasantly surprised to see a worse run country than our own right now, makes me feel ever so slightly better.

So what your telling me is that Olive Garden is authentic Italian cuisine ?
 
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By fonewear 2018-05-31 13:21:50  
DirectX said: »
Is pizza even really Italian? We have enough options without their wine. They can just sell the country to Germany like Greece should and stop pretending they are relevant.

I don't know maybe I'll have to do some pizza research...turns out I don't give a ***.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2018-05-31 14:01:56  
Well then live update: M5S and Lega went back on their word, removed Savona from the economy ministry proposal and now Conte is about to be announced as PM.

That being said, we're nearly in the darkest timeline, could only be worse if FdI was part of this.

Let's see how much they manage to destroy the economy(it doesn't take much, to be fair).
Plot points of this new legislature:
• Low taxes for everyone!
• Universal basic income for everyone!
• Early retirement age and increase in pensions!
We have no money to back all that up, but hey, pretending we do makes people happy!!
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 Asura.Tydis
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By Asura.Tydis 2018-05-31 15:14:48  
You're making Italy sound like Greece but even worse.
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By Nadleeh Sakurai 2018-05-31 15:17:19  
hmm thanks for the interesting read
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2018-05-31 16:11:03  
See that's interesting, for some reason people abroad think that opera is a big thing in Italy when nobody *** watches it.

Asura.Tydis said: »
You're making Italy sound like Greece but even worse.
Difference being that while Tsipras was all talk and then bent over 90 in Germany, these guys seem set on going full yolo.
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By fonewear 2018-05-31 16:12:26  
I just assume Italy is exactly like it is depicted in Assassin's Creed.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2018-05-31 18:51:45  
DirectX said: »
Is pizza even really Italian? ...
As I have read about the evolution of pizza, and I might be misinformed, it started as a tester in Italy somewhere in the vague north.

Leftover pasta dough dimpled with the back of a spoon and a bit of the pasta sauce thrown in the dimple then baked. What this would test I have no idea.

BUT. Fast forward to New York pizza. What makes N. Y. pizza different is there is no oil in the dough. Oil is put on the dough before the sauce. As NYC had largest and most vibrant Italian community in America in the early 20th century and claims to be the place where pizza was invented, I can see the evolution from the taster of my previous paragraph > NY pizza > American pizza > filtering back to the rest of the world pizza.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2018-06-01 04:17:14  
Fancy breads were always made all over the world throughout history, but actual pizza originates from *southern* Italy, specifically in the Naples Kingdom. The recipe existed already back in the middle ages, maybe even earlier. Later on, as people from southern Italy mass-migrated to the eastern US they naturally exported the product there making it famous. Then we entered an age of globalization and everything became known everywhere, with a core concept often considered a joke around here but not so untrue: doesn't matter where you travel in the world you will find neapolitans with a pizzeria there.

Countries that try to claim ownership for pizza over Italy are no different from all other revisionists who try to shift history in all manner of ways. Like when Poland tried to claim the invention of a bunch of desserts, nobody even believes that, maybe they put some sugar on a shoe and called it that.
 
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2018-06-01 04:40:24  
Italy has shaped the entire western culture(it's been a while since we've stopped though, now the US does that, but it's only been less than a century). Unfortunately the 20th century has been a disaster for us for many reasons, both internal and external. And getting back on topic, we're nowhere near getting better. Italy has the second strongest industrial sector of Europe but it's already down to the fifth place as far as economic power, with Spain about to surpass us since they're growing steadily and we're dying.
 
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2018-06-01 04:43:00  
Spain has had the highest economic growth of the eurozone recently, they're not swimming in gold by any means, but they are indeed improving(scandals aside).
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By Asura.Vienner 2018-06-01 05:17:05  
DirectX said: »
When you say recipe, do you mean bread, tomato sauce and cheese? Cus this ain't a recipe! It's a bachelor smashing something edible together!

In England we invented melted cheese on toast which is good with tomato ketchup which while not as good as pizza, we also are world leaders in entertainment, education, research, science, creative industries, etc, etc. What does Italy offer the world?
Italy offers the world some of the best wines, the best cheeses, a healthy lifestyle, fashion, la piovra!, nice cars, delicious italian men, Italy is an important agricultural region in Europe. they gave us roads, the toilet, running water.
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