I said there was a single single up that was removed. It's in the quote you posted... The normal shots and WS at the end are without the single shield. The repeating 1501 damage shots indicate I'm attack capped (no variance in ranged damage).
2870 crit - no shield
1501 ranged attack - no shield
16251 coronach - no shield
1435 crit - shield
0 damage ranged attack - shield
8124 coronach - shield
Exactly 50% with a little truncation error somewhere in the WS damage
There's also a 2252 ranged attack in there with the shield up, although again that's a relic 3x proc being halved (1501 * 3 * .5 = 2251.5)
August Ambuscade Volume One
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August Ambuscade Volume One
Great. Not double shield.
Again; Asura.Eiryl said: » Not a single *** given about single shield really. (amount of damage required to break would be worth knowing) It's only in the "test" to verify that double shield is in fact up. Good to know it's 50DT instead of phalanx on single shield. Asura.Eiryl said: » Great. Not double shield. Again; Asura.Eiryl said: » Not a single *** given about single shield really. (amount of damage required to break would be worth knowing) It's only in the "test" to verify that double shield is in fact up. Right, but that wasn't what was being discussed, so what's your point? I've only cared about double shield since page one.
Only mentioned single shield because "phalanx effect" Okay, but that's not what you indicated in your previous posts that you just edited because you didn't bother reading and were clearly wrong.
Fenrir.Snaps said: » Okay, but that's not what you indicated in your previous posts that you just edited because you didn't bother reading and were clearly wrong. I wasn't wrong about ***. Salty was wrong. Asura.Eiryl said: » And to be clear, I only say "Phalanx effect" because that's what salty put on the BG page. And until someone actually shows it's 50DT instead, that's what I'm going with. Asura.Eiryl said: » If it does damage then we know its a VERY strong phalanx. You stated that the logs I posted didn't show it was a 50% damage reduction (after quoting them...) and then deleted your post after realizing you were wrong to save face. Salty didn't do that, you did that. You were deliberately rude and hostile about something you didn't take the time to even read or understand. Accept it and move on.
Single shield; didn't care, still don't care. Never gonna care.
I said your log didn't show shield up/down Asura.Eiryl said: » Your log wasn't very clear. You can quote me till you turn blue in the face and bruise your fingers. Ain't gonna give a ***. Should've never even mentioned single shield. All this back an forth over a 7 minute ambuscade
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Afania said: » I assumed element changed because on first double shield last stand did damage, on 2nd double shield last stand can no longer do damage but wf worked. Then WF no longer worked but thunder V worked. It's not a formal test nor anything, thus I said it's "theory" of how it works but not conclusion. it's just one failed run that double shield happened to be up so we had to try everything to knock it off without a SMN, then just happened to found that double shield can be susceptible to something. This just in no way makes sense. That makes the working theory that double shield = Caturae shield. "Weak to" one type randomly blunt/pierce/slash/magic Shiva.Zerkles said: » All this back an forth over a 7 minute ambuscade Apparently, cause double shield causes enough problem to be instant fail. That's worth while to try to figure out. Asura.Eiryl said: » Afania said: » I assumed element changed because on first double shield last stand did damage, on 2nd double shield last stand can no longer do damage but wf worked. Then WF no longer worked but thunder V worked. It's not a formal test nor anything, thus I said it's "theory" of how it works but not conclusion. it's just one failed run that double shield happened to be up so we had to try everything to knock it off without a SMN, then just happened to found that double shield can be susceptible to something. This just in no way makes sense. That makes the working theory that double shield = Caturae shield. "Weak to" one type randomly blunt/pierce/slash/magic Shiva.Zerkles said: » All this back an forth over a 7 minute ambuscade Apparently, cause double shield causes enough problem to be instant fail. That's worth while to try to figure out. Basic SMN can break it, I guess if you dont have a SMN it may be an issue? Can't we all just be friends Answers/Knowledge > lolwindon't care
Realize that other people would like to be able to not have to rely on taking a smn (and not rely on *** luck that it won't double shield before you can possibly break it) Prove Caturae shield; let it double, find weakness (tact roll club staff dagger sword gun) change bubbles to maximize QD (all 6) Let it double again, verify different style breaks. (but this doesn't rule out a stoneskin effect. I still find celebrindals testimonial weird. There's no way it would keep double shield up for 8% while taking damage from wildfire and not breaking. Then presumably dying with shield still in affect. Asura.Eiryl said: » That makes the working theory that double shield = Caturae shield. "Weak to" one type randomly blunt/pierce/slash/magic This is what I think, otherwise I can not explain why sometimes wf works sometimes it doesn't, and why last stand worked on double shield and broke it one time. SMN is still way more reliable to break shield though, sometimes it can put up double shield really really quick before crit breaks it, then it got annoying to deal with. Tried malaise for wf on double shield this time, wf damage went from 1800 to 1900ish to 2100ish. After doing more ambu, I think the previous testi about Last stand bypassing double shield could be wrong.
It's possible to hit 0 on single shield if crit isn't hitting hard enough. And it seems that in my last SS I just hit 0 because my crit set uses mummu +2 head instead of megh +2 head, resulting crit hits not hitting hard enough to bypass phalanx due to the lack of crit dmg. Snaps didn't run into such problem with mummu +2 head because RNG has dead aim pushing crit numbers higher. I just noticed that when I pt with another cor who tp in megh +2 head instead of mummu +2, I hit 0 for crit but he hit over 1.1k per crit on the same time. The only explanation is that he crit harder and passed the threahold for the shield. Gonna change head back to megh +2 in my crit set and see how it goes. I never had a 0 damage crit on the single shield and all of the testing indicates it's simply a 50% reduction in damage. This was true even when the Geo was dead and I didn't have attack buffs/debuffs. I'll check my logs later tonight to verify. If you got a 0 damage crit, I am betting it was a double shield and you might not have noticed. The only other explanation would be a 50% DT threshold mechanic. A 50% reduction is applied to your damage, and its floored to 0 if it's not above some threshold, otherwise it all goes through.
If you've got armageddon, I'd recommend trying that too. If it is a threshold than you can break that with normal shots and an AM3 proc. I would wager this is probably more likely as the relic 3x proc in my log did damage, and I feel it's very unlikely that they would make exceptions for such specific procs.
Fenrir.Snaps said: » If you got a 0 damage crit, I am betting it was a double shield and you might not have noticed. I am very certain this is not the case, since another cor(TP in megh +2 head) was critting for 1100 damage and I(TP in mummu +2 head) was critting for 0 on the same time. I changed my crit set to megh +2 head next run and never crit for 0 with shield up anymore, been critting for 1100ish, same as another guy. Basically, mummu +2 head isn't ideal for COR crit set on shield. Seems like the threshold for the crit damage is 1000 or maybe 1100. With mummu +2 I crit under 1000 with shield damage reduction, thus hitting 0. A good way to verify it is to check your ranged damage when shield is up, I bet all of your crit during shield hit more than 1000. At least in the log that you posted a while back, all crit hit for 1400. Fenrir.Snaps said: » This was true even when the Geo was dead and I didn't have attack buffs/debuffs. pdif seems pretty high entire time, that it may be possible that even without GEO you'd have pretty high attack that's enough to hit more than 1000 dmg per crit, thus bypassing the shield. Fenrir.Snaps said: » The only other explanation would be a 50% DT threshold mechanic. A 50% reduction is applied to your damage, and its floored to 0 if it's not above some threshold, otherwise it all goes through. I believe this is the case. Fenrir.Snaps said: » If you've got armageddon, I'd recommend trying that too. If it is a threshold than you can break that with normal shots and an AM3 proc. I would wager this is probably more likely as the relic 3x proc in my log did damage, and I feel it's very unlikely that they would make exceptions for such specific procs. Light SC is way too strong on imps, so I wouldn't consider armageddon on imp phase. And swapping to armageddon on boss, then get 3k TP for AM lowers DPS as a whole. Nevermind the fact that soulflayer still takes light SC damage. I have np critting for more than 0 in megh +2 head, so I personally don't think Armageddon AM3 is worth it. Nevermind the fact that SMN solves all the problem and makes the run way more consistent than 3 ranged DD setup. Despite 2 COR 1 RNG seems produce the fastest result, changing 1 of them to SMN makes this way easier, IMO. Ok here's my new theory about shield, the entire reason why volte strike works is because volte strike has
"Critical Hit Rate varies with TP" https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Volt_Strike I think double shield may be just stronger version of phalanx, that white damage can no longer bypass it. But BP still can because it hits much harder. One way to varify it is to use Jishnu's Radiance on RNG on double shield I guess? So then the goal (for a single shield) is to verify that it's not "crits and weaponskills" but "anything that does at least 1100 damage" that's why a relic proc worked.
single; damage 50% and zero'd if not at least 1100, anything should work even nukes. (provided they do at least 2200 without shield) This is why I keep insisting that you do QD with no shield QD with single QD with double Still not double shield though. Asura.Eiryl said: » So then the goal (for a single shield) is to verify that it's not "crits and weaponskills" but "anything that does at least 1100 damage" that's why a relic proc worked. single; damage 50% and zero'd if not at least 1100, anything should work even nukes. (provided they do at least 2200 without shield) Still not double shield though. I found an number from my log critting for 1029 in mummu +2 head, so 1000 is probably the threshold, since it's possible that buffs or whatever variation casuing crit drop below 1000. Let it put up single shield, lower mab until QD hits 999 verify it zeros.
Asura.Eiryl said: » This is why I keep insisting that you do QD with no shield QD with single QD with double I can't in VD unless 5 other members are ok with me cycling through QD with cool down and slow down the run. I can probably try that in VE but the threshold thing may be lower in VE thus not accurate. I mean like... you're not changing anything.
As soon as you start, Thunder shot it. As soon as it puts up single. Thunder shot it. if it puts up double, thunder shot it. If you get the chance, lower mab so that on single it does < 1000 Can a thief steal and/or larceny the shield?
Cerberus.Boogs said: » Can a thief steal and/or larceny the shield? No, but, THF is one of the jobs that can break it eas(ier). Tact up and SArudra. (but it's miserably slower than ranger/cor/smn) Afania said: » I found an number from my log critting for 1029 in mummu +2 head, so 1000 is probably the threshold, since it's possible that buffs or whatever variation casuing crit drop below 1000. I feel like this is the most likely explanation. Anything that does 2k before the 50% DT is applied will do damage. Anything else is reduced to 0. The double shield is probably similar but with higher dt or thresholds. Pretty easy to test that theory. Just let it double shield and ws it in a tryhard set. Would've been resolved 3 days ago.
Cerberus.Boogs said: » Can a thief steal and/or larceny the shield? Shield isn't SP move so I doubt it. Feel free to try though. I personally wouldn't recommend melee at all. ranged DDs are more than capable of killing it fast. In one of the runs it showed COR dealing over 5k or even 7k dps on scoreboard during imp phase. that's already equal scoreboard dps as melee jobs in other ambuscade VD. And it took less than 3 min to get through all the imps with just 2 cor as only DD. That I feel melee setup is not necessary unless it's proven to be more efficient and faster. The dispel/amnesia things from imps is just horrible for melees, and why change a strategy when people already been reporting RUN COR COR SMN (or RNG) BRD GEO working very well in VD? :p
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Afania said: » why change a strategy when people already been reporting RUN COR COR SMN (or RNG) BRD GEO working very well in VD? :p Something about 10,000 people playing a melee job and since ranger has been out of the meta for 4 years, no one has their rangers up to date... EVERYONE has a melee cor. NO ONE(*) has a shootie cor. The last time I used Ranger/Shooting cor was.... Delve2/HTB AA's that's how out of date mine are. |
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