Insurgency Possibly Bugged Or Buffed

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Dark Knight » Insurgency possibly bugged or buffed
Insurgency possibly bugged or buffed
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-09-21 18:20:15  
I mean like yo, if the mailman (plays the game) and can see how clearly broken the offices printer is (the game) he would say hey "this shits broke" and it'd get fixed.

Common sense. If they just straight give no *** that it's broken, then that's one thing. I've been saying they give no *** for a long time. But everyone wants to argue with me about it.
 Ragnarok.Casey
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By Ragnarok.Casey 2018-09-21 18:27:56  
No, it was that I am not confident in SE's ability to understand what is actually broken in the game, or perhaps not understanding why people complain about things that are not balanced.

My particular complaint was that SMN doesn't have a penalty for dying as far as keeping pets out. PUP can die and they're not so bad off thanks to Deus Ex Automata.

But if DRG and BST die twice they can be crippled for up to 20 minutes. This is much worse on BST but losing 20% attack, 20% def, 10% JA haste, 15% double attack, having Soul/Spirit jump actually function isn't exactly a laughing matter for DRG either.

SE's response to the complaint at least for DRG was to brush it off as working as intended and giving DRG more Wyvern: DT gear despite the wyvern dying not being the problem in most cases. Even the dynamis crafted relic and neck from this last update have augs specifically designed for wyvern survivability.

Though, that said... we're extremely off topic here now.
 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2018-09-21 18:33:25  
Well, imagine that between the mailman and the person in charge of fixing the printers, there are like 20 people who will each add a layer of inaccuracy to the issue originally reported.

So much so that when it reaches the guy in charge people are like "oh yeah, there is this, but like, we don't really know what's going on, whatever, send an email to the mailman asking for more details".

If you're lucky one of the CMs will say that he's aware of the issue and that he reported it 20 times and that he was assured it's being worked on while sounding desperate and frustrated.

Ragnarok.Casey said: »
No, it was that I am not confident in SE's ability to understand what is actually broken in the game, or perhaps not understanding why people complain about things that are not balanced.

My particular complaint was that SMN doesn't have a penalty for dying as far as keeping pets out. PUP can die and they're not so bad off thanks to Deus Ex Automata.

But if DRG and BST die twice they can be crippled for up to 20 minutes. This is much worse on BST but losing 20% attack, 20% def, 10% JA haste, 15% double attack, having Soul/Spirit jump actually function isn't exactly a laughing matter for DRG either.

SE's response to the complaint at least for DRG was to brush it off as working as intended and giving DRG more Wyvern: DT gear despite the wyvern dying not being the problem in most cases. Even the dynamis crafted relic and neck from this last update have augs specifically designed for wyvern survivability.

Though, that said... we're extremely off topic here now.
That's a game knowledge issue more than game design.

Simply put, in fighting games (DBF with Beerus is a very good example), people complain that X and Y are low tier and what not, only to have a random dude put some work into them and ***on everyone.

FFXI and DRG/BST have less nuance to it, they're down right crippled, but they'd answer you that there are ways of avoiding it and you should exploit those. Also you can simply pick another job, not all jobs have to be viable everywhere.
 Ragnarok.Casey
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By Ragnarok.Casey 2018-09-21 18:43:17  
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
FFXI and DRG/BST have less nuance to it, they're down right crippled, but they'd answer you that there are ways of avoiding it and you should exploit those. Also you can simply pick another job, not all jobs have to be viable everywhere.

I can't really avoid dying to mijin if I don't resist it when i have capped MDT. Can't avoid dying to mobs oneshotting me from my current HP when I can't super jump due to timers, or high jump doesn't remove enough hate for me to drop lower on the hatelist.

But yes -- I am literally picking another job not because I want to, because I have to. Even though they fill the exact same niche as far as slapping things with big weapons goes, one doesn't get crippled for extended durations beyond just weakness. I should not have to do this, but I do. In any case either WAR or DRK has a higher damage ceiling so it's an "upgrade", but I still would rather play a job I want to instead of have to.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-09-21 18:47:22  
If there's 20 people in the way of getting things done, I have to question what their job is and why they currently still have it.

Office Space much.
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By Marootsoobootsu 2018-09-21 19:04:01  
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
You read the word "management" as "people in charge of making changes to this game". That's the shortcut I spoke of.

It's like you completely ignored the fact that SE is divided in 3 regions and that companies of this size have multiple, sometimes big departments, each of them being split per region.

Or maybe I misunderstood your complaint.

I find the fact that you think SE still has multiple departments actively devoted to this game kind of bewildering.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Haxxor
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By Quetzalcoatl.Haxxor 2018-09-21 19:24:03  
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
So I guess this guy is worse than Senaki? No one cares, not impressed and probably fake and...

Gear up your +WSD% boys!
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 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2018-09-21 21:15:09  
Marootsoobootsu said: »
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
You read the word "management" as "people in charge of making changes to this game". That's the shortcut I spoke of.

It's like you completely ignored the fact that SE is divided in 3 regions and that companies of this size have multiple, sometimes big departments, each of them being split per region.

Or maybe I misunderstood your complaint.

I find the fact that you think SE still has multiple departments actively devoted to this game kind of bewildering.


Lol they probably only have the Dev Heads and a small crew of interns on this game. And only every other weekend, and like ONE Guy/Girl answering GM Calls Lol.
 Sylph.Cherche
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By Sylph.Cherche 2018-09-21 21:24:21  
I find it pretty bewildering that you guys are seeing him say XI has multiple departments dedicated to it.
 Sylph.Dravidian
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By Sylph.Dravidian 2018-09-21 22:46:14  
According to David Daegling, the legends existed before there was a single name for the creature.[9] They differed in their details both regionally and between families in the same community.[9]

Ecologist Robert Pyle argues that most cultures have accounts of human-like giants in their folk history, expressing a need for "some larger-than-life creature."[10] Each language had its own name for the creature featured in the local version of such legends. Many names meant something along the lines of "wild man" or "hairy man", although other names described common actions that it was said to perform, such as eating clams or shaking trees.[11] Chief Mischelle of the Nlaka'pamux at Lytton, British Columbia told such a story to Charles Hill-Tout in 1898; he named the creature by a Salishan variant meaning "the benign-faced-one".
 Bahamut.Malothar
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By Bahamut.Malothar 2018-09-21 23:22:29  
Asura.Eiryl said: »
I mean like yo, if the mailman (plays the game) and can see how clearly broken the offices printer is (the game) he would say hey "this shits broke" and it'd get fixed.

Have you ever worked somewhere with a team? That's a serious pipe dream if you think it'd be that easy, even something as simple as that example.

As a dispatch manager at an HVAC company, I had literally a 3 hour fix for a *** today with more hoops than there ever should be. Tech sold someone a maintenance agreement for their massive house with 5 full systems 6~ months ago. Another tech ran service today, which should have had discounts because of said agreement. He didn't notice that the customer didn't get those discounts until after he had processed the CC#.

To fix it, I had to:

A) Figure out what was up with the agreement (tech activated it on the wrong property 6 months ago, derp)
B) Get in touch with our accounts service manager to fix my permissions so I could fix the account (recent permissions updates screwed some stuff up, lo and behold, it hit me and this niche thing that I'd normally never need to touch is creating an additional hurdle)
C) Fix account
D) Update customer, explain refund process, etc - Customer pissed because we failed (rightfully so) and demanded this fixed immediately, so rather than handle this through emails and such, I had to get ahold of people directly to make him happy
E) Get permission from the service manager to refund the customer (his department, his say - I could overstep him and just do it - even though it's "right" and makes sense - and it could create issues/office politics and blow up on me)
F) After chasing him down for an hour to get permission (an email, 3 texts, walking around the office for 5~ minutes checking for him, and a phone call), send a corrected invoice
G) Chase down accounting to process the refund (failed, they left early cause why not - again, I could overstep and run it myself, and face possible backlash cause of office politics)
H)Communicate back to the customer that it's been corrected on our end and refund will be processed ASAP next week
I) Now I get to get on accounting's *** on Monday to make sure they get on the ball

All of that is over $136 for a customer who's living in an $850k house in the midwest (read, a *** mansion).

Even the simplest of things are never easy. Too much bureaucracy in any company. My company is a smaller one that only has 53 employees too. I can't even imagine the hurdles that are in place for a global company with thousands of employees. It's easy to REEEE online about how terrible and incompetent all of the employees are, but I'd bet anything there's plenty of SE employees who want to see improvements, they're just powerless to do anything.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-09-21 23:35:11  
Bahamut.Malothar said: »
Stuff

This is a whole different thing.

If one guy actually played the *** game, he could very clearly see whats wrong, simply by being there. and say it needs to be fixed.

Instead of waiting, oh, i don't know, 5 years. Like geo. ***was broken, from the jump. if a single solitary person from square played the god damn thing, they would've seen that.

Literally 5 seconds of watching Ramuh with astral conduit you can see that's not whats supposed to be intended, but since none of them can be bothered to actually see it...
 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2018-09-21 23:59:55  
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Bahamut.Malothar said: »
Stuff

This is a whole different thing.

If one guy actually played the *** game, he could very clearly see whats wrong, simply by being there. and say it needs to be fixed.

Instead of waiting, oh, i don't know, 5 years. Like geo. ***was broken, from the jump. if a single solitary person from square played the god damn thing, they would've seen that.

Literally 5 seconds of watching Ramuh with astral conduit you can see that's not whats supposed to be intended, but since none of them can be bothered to actually see it...

People working on the game play the game, issue is the highest ups do not. And with the nature of respect, both inside and outside of japanese culture, it's hard to get points across to higher ups.
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 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2018-09-22 01:03:36  
I think this new wsd is okay. It says Weapon Skill Damage +% so it ought to do something comparable for multi-hit WS.

Maybe it was supposed to be like this and someone forgot to add in a variable or line of code and they didn't put a priority on the issue because it was doing something and the players didn't complain enough... yet.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-09-22 03:04:56  
Hey, question... Has anyone tested to see if the WS accuracy boost that always applied to first hits of WS is now applying to hits 2+?
 Phoenix.Dabackpack
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By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2018-09-22 03:27:34  
Honestly I'd rather SE at least know about this before exploiting it. If they give the OK then that's fine. I'm almost certain it's not intentional though.

The fact that so many people are trying to hide this from Square-Enix is just ludicrous to me.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-09-22 03:40:24  
It's impossible to hide it. But it's retarded to report it.

They give you a courtesy lick and you wipe it off and ask for it dry.
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By aisukage 2018-09-22 04:33:55  
Phoenix.Dabackpack said: »
Honestly I'd rather SE at least know about this before exploiting it. If they give the OK then that's fine. I'm almost certain it's not intentional though.

The fact that so many people are trying to hide this from Square-Enix is just ludicrous to me.

It's not hidden though. It's been reported on the official forums days ago. They either don't read which wouldn't surprise me but whats more likely is that they read it and just don't care enough to reply. They will most likely fix the issue and put it in a maintenance note without any prior warning and be done with it. Enjoy it while it's here while you can, I for one hope it lasts.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2018-09-22 05:01:33  
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Bahamut.Malothar said: »
Stuff

This is a whole different thing.

If one guy actually played the *** game, he could very clearly see whats wrong, simply by being there. and say it needs to be fixed.

Instead of waiting, oh, i don't know, 5 years. Like geo. ***was broken, from the jump. if a single solitary person from square played the god damn thing, they would've seen that.

Literally 5 seconds of watching Ramuh with astral conduit you can see that's not whats supposed to be intended, but since none of them can be bothered to actually see it...

Old post but I'm replying anyway. This is an unbelievably immature way to look at this. We aren't talking about a Mom + Pop's garage game development studio. We're talking about a multinational corporation that spans several continents and has employees speaking dozens of languages doing various types of jobs and performing more tasks than just "play game, report to Fujito!"

A GM or CM playing FFXI can't simply go to work one day, walk onto the dev floor, and say, "yes, this is broken. fix it." They'll submit it, because that's their job, and the next link in the chain will pass it forward as needed. Even if the SE dev team only has 5 people left (which would exacerbate the issue of expedience in fixing problems), each individual dev will almost certainly not have the authoritative capacity to do whatever the *** they want to the game's code. It would be a long, annoying vetting process. I also suspect that, as undermanned as the actual XI dev team likely is, things like your feelings being hurt over GEO being too strong or MNK being too weak aren't on top of their pile of tasks-to-be-completed.

This is all, of course, assuming that the GM or CM in question was Japanese to begin with. Try to process the fact that a GM or CM from NA/EU would have to go through several more hoops in order to have their "complaints" brought to the people who actually handle the game's code. They aren't in a position to just send the producer/director an email expressing that, for example, WSD+% is working on every hit of a weaponskill. The individual size of XI's team doesn't matter, what matters is the corporate structure, especially the stringent structure of foreign (Japanese) corporations like Square Enix, operate. Playing the game, seeing there's a problem, and acknowledging that problem is a far cry away from being able to actively fix that problem, especially for a relatively lowly peon who is on the outer rim of the corporate chain like a GM/CM (no offense Senk).
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 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2018-09-22 05:14:30  
Proth is mostly right, though some CM's do get to call and directly communicate with Matsui and the sort. That's far more of a special occasion and not the time for notes like WSD+ working on all hits. For example Camate is the one who set up the whole Q&A on Reddit and spoke directly to those guys to set it up (though even then there were more people involved as he didn't do the direct translation for that event) but that's also Camate, who is fluent in Japanese and had 8 years with the company.

And even that said, Camate in the final weeks of his employment there was telling me that he was doing his job and summarizing NA complaints and sending them to his JP counterpart and the JP counterpart was dismissing them, and saying they weren't issues. He had to go back and forth with this guy many times over the issue. So...the chain can even break before it gets to the people able to change/impact things.
 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2018-09-22 05:45:58  
I think they are still thinking whether this should be a 'feature' or a 'bug'. Weighting the pros and cons of it.

If it's a feature then they will leave it as is and just saying they were doing their job by fixing the long term problem. No need to spend anything and still make it out as 'doing your job well'. Balance can be fixed at a later time....

If they call it a bug then they will have to spend man power to find and fix it and hopefully not breaking anything else in the process. Then they will still have to deal with the balance issue.
 Shiva.Humpo
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By Shiva.Humpo 2018-09-22 05:48:51  
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Hey, question... Has anyone tested to see if the WS accuracy boost that always applied to first hits of WS is now applying to hits 2+?

I was playing around with reso, and other ws during my bcnm event farming and actually noticed that I had some severe problems with accuracy on Reso. Maybe just a run of bad luck but seemed like I missed at least one swing 9 out of 10 times with a Rag.

Entropy, with Anguta, was doing great. Still fell behind Cross Reaper on average, but didn't feel nearly as sluggish as before.
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By SimonSes 2018-09-22 06:43:54  
The report was moved to "Accepted bugs" part of the forum.

EDIT: Which means it will be investigated and confirmed or not. Doesn't mean they actually acknowledged it as a bug.
Personally I think that they might leave it for simple reason, they just won't be able to fix it easily. I believe that this bug, if it's a bug at all, was crated to allow specific WSD augments on REMA works for all hits. It's possible that in order to fix this, they would need to replace WSD on augmented REMA and they will just say "*** it, too much work" and just settle to leave it.
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 Asura.Warusha
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By Asura.Warusha 2018-09-22 07:25:48  
Hey man, Christmas is cancelled. You're the reason we can't have nice things, and why dinosaurs are gone. Go to your room and think about what you've done. Also your dad said he never wanted to see you again before he left us.
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 Asura.Topace
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By Asura.Topace 2018-09-22 08:05:57  
Just nerf reso and keep it pushing.

God forbid any other job would be able to zerg besides sam/drk/war we can't have that can we...
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-09-22 08:11:26  
Shiva.Humpo said: »
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Hey, question... Has anyone tested to see if the WS accuracy boost that always applied to first hits of WS is now applying to hits 2+?

I was playing around with reso, and other ws during my bcnm event farming and actually noticed that I had some severe problems with accuracy on Reso. Maybe just a run of bad luck but seemed like I missed at least one swing 9 out of 10 times with a Rag.

Entropy, with Anguta, was doing great. Still fell behind Cross Reaper on average, but didn't feel nearly as sluggish as before.

The gear that's normally used for "MA" Reso is usually loaded with accuracy, "WSD" gear on the other hand we tend now to focus too much on it because we assume it's just a one-hit WS anyway.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-09-22 08:12:35  
Asura.Topace said: »
Just nerf reso and keep it pushing.

God forbid any other job would be able to zerg besides sam/drk/war we can't have that can we...

Then we'd just use Upheaval, Entropy, Insurgency or several other WS's those jobs have access to.

Seriously Reso isn't even the WS that's getting massively buffed, Upheaval with an upgraded Chango is going to be insane.
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By Afania 2018-09-22 08:19:01  
Asura.Topace said: »
Just nerf reso and keep it pushing.

God forbid any other job would be able to zerg besides sam/drk/war we can't have that can we...


Asura.Warusha said: »
Hey man, Christmas is cancelled. You're the reason we can't have nice things, and why dinosaurs are gone. Go to your room and think about what you've done. Also your dad said he never wanted to see you again before he left us.


I find it kinda unbelievable that people believe if this bug don't get fixed, other DD will beat MS WAR in zergs, world will full of rainbows and sunshine and happiness >.>

We'll just get an (even) easier FFXI, that's it. People will beat things even more easily and 3 months later they'll complain nothing to do in ffxi and they are quitting. Submitting a bug isn't bad if that's intended design...
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By Nariont 2018-09-22 08:23:28  
Something something RUN is now more OP, hasnt reso been nerfed about 4 times since it came out? All this change does long term is make reso the go to for run, while wars will have chango upheavs and drk will have insurg/torc to spam, no?
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