Warrior: DW/Fencer/Polearm/H2H/Ranged.

I’ve parsed both builds a ton. /DRG shits all over /Sam. And anyone can hit 99k nowadays Ive done it several times on a host of jobs like most everyone else has too. I was being conservative with the 40k.

The +7 from dragon is more potent than the WSD from gear but I think that’s what you mean just wanted to be clear. It’s more akin to the way Naegling applies to SB damage.

The advantage to /SAM though is it allows you to freely move from 1H to 2h given you don’t have haste samba to cap you.

Riiight... in other words.


We know exactly what /DRG gives

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/WS_Damage_Boost

At level 45 it's +7% damage to all Weapon Skills, not +25, not +50, not even +15, but +7. Meaning if your WS Average is 10,000 (easy number to work with), it's now 10,000 * 1.07 = 10,700. It doesn't jump to 20,000, 15,000 or even 12,000. Everything is a percentage increase and that is why we treat damage potentials as percentages.

/SAM gives +15 Store TP, technically also Meditate for +600 TP but that's really just for the start of fights so not really part of this discussion. +15 Store TP will give +15% TP generation when at starting at 0 Store TP and +7.5% TP generation when your at 100 Store TP. Weapon Skill rate has a direct relationship with TP gain, executing 10% more WS's is the same as executing 10% stronger WS's. Since this involves trusts I think it's safe to assume this isn't a super buffed setup and there likely isn't a powerful Samurai's roll present, most setups will have around 36~50 store TP on them so 43 seems like a decent value to compare with. +15 Store TP will be +10.48% in WS frequency.

And that's how we see that worst case scenario, /SAM is about the same as /DRG, common scenarios will have /SAM being better then /DRG. Now if the fights are super super fast, like one WS to kill the mob fast, then /SAM's WS frequency wouldn't come into play and /DRG over killing the mobs would seem like it was performing better.

Look anyone. literally anyone can go parse this and see. I don't really care if you believe me or not. I don't need confirmation from you. I did it myself to see which worked because like most of us here we are constantly looking to improve.

Guess what most of us have all the gear and ***now. No one is out there with some super secret item that 5 people have. Games been to stale on progression for that to be the case.

Now for others just looking for something different to do on WAR which I believe was the spirit of this entire thread, give it a whirl. If you are at the point you can do this stuff you're probably going to win the parse regardless and win the content regardless cause nothing is hard anymore.

You see what you want to see.

And btw, your talking to someone who does these checks and builds. Finds new and inventive ways to go about stuff. Hell even so far as to create /MNK setups before the Ambuscade weapons just to troll the MNKs. Go back far far far in the past on these threads and notice the account posting the original Fencer setups, along with many of our alternate builds.

I'm aware of who you are and aprreciate your insights.

Lets take this from a different approach. The reason /SAM doesn't win is a little more nuanced. Everything you posted above about the store TP is 100% dead on. But you have forgotten to include one VERY important aspect. If the +15 store TP doesn't reduce your x-HIT build, all its doing is allowing for a slight uptick in TP overflow. And while that leads to more WS damage, its not leading to the 7% more damage needed to overtake the /drg. So when you say 10% more TP leads to 10% more WS, that's not entirely true. Its only if that 10% leads to a reduction in attack rounds which is what leads to more frequency.

And the minute you adjust your TP set to account for this you have to begin looking at what you gave up. More than likely it might be your 100% DA builds which in turn is a reduction in TP.. so like I said its a bit more nuanced than what you had.

I'm not making this stuff up and wanting something to work just because, i've actually been trying to tweak these to see what I can get out of the different fencer options.

/drg and /sam in a party with a real cor both get 5 hit builds with 100% DA. you get what? 730 TP bonus from fencer now? 700 from warcry and 250 from earing for a total of 1680.(i think?) the more TP bonus you have the more valuable that WSD becomes. ironically the more tp bonus you have the less valuable over TPing becomes. Maybe with /drg and no warcry /sam is a bit closer. but still behind.

Interesting thing. if you have 10 haste samba. then /drg is probably overall better with all weapons.

If you are doing no cor. you have a 9 hit build with both using the standard 100 DA set up. So the frequency argument is completely nonsense. /sam takes just as long to fire off a WS as /drg in almost all stp values. so his WS frequency saevel should be using is actually a 0% increase. WS rate does not have a direct relationship with tp gain rate. That is fairly obvious since it requires a minimum value (1k). It is more of a direct relationship WITH a rounddown aspect to it, since it has a 1k floor to USE the WS(im sure there is an actually name for that). it is a race to 1k+ tp. /drg and /sam hit it at the same time, /sam is just like 80 TP higher when it gets there.

Now that I think about it, /drg with jumps will have a mildly higher WS rate.


Editt*** to get more frequency for WS out of war you have to either get more hast or remove an entire attack round. Since war has 100 DA in most sets ups, that is a LOT of STP. Which /sam isnt even close to giving. Also with cor. 1 retal proc will cap you at 3k TP during WS with warcry. so literally zero benefit to /sam when you are using a real cor (im almost always the tank on war). Looks like fencer is actually 830 TP bonus.so 830+700+250 for a total of 1780. so a minimum of 2780, meaning only need 220. which /drg gets in a single retal, at 80%ish retal that is easy to get. at 3k tp that WSB of 7% is at its most potent.

Agreed that it would be interesting to see some testing if Mayakov has 10% Haste Samba, since that would be a real boost to /DRG for 2h weapons. I've always erred on the side of assuming trusts have the minimum/baseline, i.e. 5% JA haste for sambas instead of 10% like a DNC with merits.

But yeah, Mayakov is the only trust that uses Haste Samba and ONLY Haste Samba. He also likes to stack Feather Step to lv10 for mob crit evasion down. Mumor and Uka also use Haste Samba, but they can and will switch to Drain Samba often when you've taken damage. Lilisette's "Rousing Samba" isn't a real samba, it's just an AoE +10% crit rate (really works more like an Indi- spell or sphere effect).

And to be clear, whether Mayakov is 5% or 10% Haste Samba is somewhat irrelevant for DW builds since you can cap delay reduction in multiple ways. This does get me thinking though, since even 5% JA Haste and /NIN is enough to forego DW gear entirely (capped gear/magical haste, 5% JA Haste, and DW+25 from /NIN DW III trait = 80.22%). Really makes me consider whether to spend a trust slot on Mayakov when WAR/NIN to free up hands/ear slot for non-DW gear. Especially for hybrid builds, since Sulevia+2 hands also give you an extra DT-5% to play with.

so.... if they buff scythe in a way similar to how they did it on h2h by just making everything better... scythe war might be a real thing depending on what they do with spiral hell next month. Spiral hell with drepanum is actually a solid option. If they just make it better... It wouldnt take a very big change to make it top tier.

It's very unlikely they are doing something with WSs, especially with esch WS separately. Its probably something more general. They were very specific about using word "weapon skill" while doing the update for MNK.

I will quote myself from DRK thread:

hard to say until we see it tbh. But buffing fSTR on scythe would also help war. I however doubt SE will do something that sophisticated.

I would also think they wuldnt make such change if fSTR for ranged weapons wasnt actually twice more potent than melee. They could simply replicate that. Not sure how easy that would be from sphagetti code perspective, but it could be possible a simple change.

hmmm increase scythe dmg. wonder what they did to drepanum lol. could become a top tier weapon for war.seems like they increased pDif for scythes i am guessing?

pDif is the stat that SE has aparently decided is the limiter for a jobs potential. Hence the physical damage limit stat and trait as pDif modifiers.

i figured pdif was likely. If they attach it to scythe instead of drk then war gets it too. Now depending on how potent they make it.... things could get hilarious. already hitting 43k on first hit. if they do a semi decent buff, it could replace GS entirely.


Judging by how much they buffed spear, i wouldn't be shocked to see a big buff. I also wouldn't be surprised if they did something stupid.

seems like a 10ish percent increase to sprial hell. so like a 5% pdif increase to scythe in general

extra hits look like they are doing around 10k on spiral hell. first hit is like 46k at 3k. 32k at 2k tp. might replace reso.

What's the consensus on Stardiver vs Impulse with Shining One? Impulse beat it everytime? I haven't unlocked it (because i'd have to remove something else) and I'm wondering if it's worth it.

Yes Impulse Drive is better, maybe even under MS though I'm usually doing Chango or even Resolution for that.

stardiver reduces the mobs crit hit evasion and is pretty solid for DPS . yeah impulse is better, but i would recommend gearing stardiver as well. Stardiver also gets better TP return than impulse.

You'll need it for 3 step dark w polearm

If someone has Resolution gear, they have Stardiver gear.

not exactly.

stardiver can crit and there are some really good crit options for stardiver. They are not geared the same anymore. if you are using just your reso set then your stardivers are gonna be meh

ItemSet 366559

Something like this.

hjarrandi seems solid for body. maybe the new ammo instead. begrudging ring etc. probably a crit cape instead of a DA cape. Seems to have quite a few options to choose from

Just going reso build also forces you to be a touch gimped AND squishy.

Building Farsha because...well, something different I guess. Would dingleberry (reis Axe) be the go to sub for the double attack or what else?

if the goal's cloudsplitter then tp bonus axe or a good mab/wsd offhand, though i dont know what ones those would be sides malevolence or ambu axe, or barbarity +1? would likely be the way to go id think

Hmmm, didn't think about tp axe...

This is news to me.

I do Fencer with farsha.

Literally says it can crit and shows a set with Shining One. So yup can crit. Get with the times.