The State Of Leveling

What's wrong with expecting a player to have completed those requirements before joining group content? Now that 90% of missions are solo-able as a lv99 player, I don't see any problem with expecting that level of requirement. And they need to /shouting for those missions they can't do solo yet before they need to be shouting or joining CP shouts. 700k, as has been stated, isn't that much. The problem I see lately is that so many returning or new players don't know how to make gil, and just need to be pointed in the right direction.


100% right there. Then again, the lack of SC knowledge certainly isn't limited to new players. There's a huge lack of appreciation for SC'ing in the game nowadays, with the fact that in large content Melee Zerging is so much more popular and often more efficient. But as has been said, it still has a place at times even in today's version of FFXI. Its extremely common these days that those w/ SC knowledge or at least an app are coordinating for the rest. Now as was mentioned, the ability to have multiple weapon options and sets for those weapons is far more important than the knowledge of building SCs. That info can be shared a lot faster than a new player building sets and skilling a weapon.


True. But as has been mentioned, its that all constant drive for efficiency that makes ridiculous things like shouting for R15 DDs happen. It can go too far, yes. But its really a symptom of that drive for efficiency.

Woah woah woah... someone denied your RDM for that? RDM is one of the least Weapon-Dependant jobs there are (it’s all about finding MACC and there are TONS of options) we all already knew this thread was soaked in silliness but that made me laugh

Not really an Asura thing but more of an FFXI thing, people with vastly different schools of thought all come together in one setting. Expectations getting set upfront is the only control to the chaos and yes there will be groups with high requirements (likely made by people who feel like they've gotten burned by "noobs") and there will be groups with more lax requirements. As an R15 DD who's really just okay and nothing special, I gravitate toward whoever seems like they're worth my time... tends to be the leader who doesn't seem like an ***. But I don't automatically ping someone as an *** for having standards. They've had their own experiences and those are valid. You do that every time and you're gonna find yourself just sitting on the forums frustrated with nothing to do. Start up a group with your own requirements instead of pleading for an across-the-board change of attitude, they are putting the info in their /yells for a reason, you do you.

1m to a new player is a lot. Youd be lucky to make 1m during all of gain exp, as youd lack cleaving capabilities, and the popular spots are taken by those who do have that capability. Its also not *just* 700k, its 700k for a single item, when you dont make that much that easily, and you still need 5+m in spells/gear/other misc items. Theres a lot of things vets have already done and obtained that takes a long while for a new player unless a vet physically skips content for them.

And yeah, most absolute terrible parties ive been in have been with vets more often than newer players. A newer player is more likely to listen when you suggest an improvement, and will often SC if you teach them how/show them what to do. Where as mr BiS remad out their *** is more likely to tell you they know their job better while the mages sit back and cant do anything due to lack of SC, and the moment they leave we kill ***faster with a basic bayld gear not even kaja ambu weapon replacement that actually decides to SC.

It’s actually very easy to get Gil at a decent pace even as a FRESH new player believe it or not. You’d really only need Sparks gear and a decent weapon. Even faster if you’re RDM with Dual-Weild

You can covert 99999 Sparks into just under 2 mil by buying Acheron Shields and then NPCing them. Fumbling through the menus is tedious but once you get a rhythm going it’s not terrible. As for capping Sparks, set the “Deal 500+ Damage” quest and put it on repeat.

Go to VW-Arrapego Reef and spawn the Qutrub with a good mix of healers and tank trusts. In 117+ gear you should be almost immune to damage especially with Trusts assisting you. Simply engage and whale on it. It takes exaggerated damage so you’ll hit 500+ every time and if you have RDM, each Enspell also counts if I’m not mistaken, making everything even faster.

You should be capped Sparks after 2 pops and each pop should take about 10-15 minutes to kill. Just engage and walk away.

Not the fastest way but it’s an easy 2 mil any nooby can do as long as it doesn’t get nerfed

And if everyone is doing that, then you run into the same issue of lack of spots. Youre also heavily relying on a new player having access to a niche VW NM, as well as knowing it exists, and that they can do this.

...

The game gives you a free 2.5-3m each month.
Any new player in basic sparks gear at lv 99 can farm NQ dynamis or salvage easily, over and over again.
Any new play in basic sparks gear at lv 99 can do Micro and Macro orb fights for gil.
Login campaigns net you gil every month.. literally, just logging into this game gives you gil.

Not to mention all of the more complicated ways to make gil. Excluding RoE (which you mentioned as being hard for some reason) this game just throws money at you constantly.

1m gil is nothing, for any player

3m each month, if you know all these subtle ways to make money a new player likely wouldnt make use of, as a high end, so youre looking at 4.5 months low end to 2 months high end to meet the basic CP requirements through gil alone for "just logging in". I dont think 4.5 months to CP is a reasonable expectation.

And this is assuming a new player somehow knows what login point items are worth anything, or how to dyna/salvage farm. Or what they even are, for that matter.

No sir, it’s entry level Aht Urghan VW.
And the area is almost always empty even on Asura.
As for everything else, it really is that easy. Sparks Gear, Trusts, POP, Engage, come back in 10 minutes.

Everything else is just simple knowledge that was just now freely given. Just trying to help

Edit: you literally talk to the VW NPC and “Agree to help” and you’re in. Same as all the other Outland zones.

And you still have the simple problem of "how is a new player supposed to even know this NM exists, has a mechanic that makes it take more damage, and is really good for the damage RoE".

That is still a massive hurdle to overcome, and general knowledge is something veterans in almost every field overlook as something they have over everyone else.

Most new players at this point wpuldnt even know wtf voidwatch even is.

3m each month just from selling your Mars Orb..

These "subtle" ways to make gil are readily identifiable on any website about FFXI. There is even a whole guide dedicated to making gil on BG-wiki.

So you're saying that the problem is they don't know these easy ways to make gil exist? If they are worth having in a CP party they've already done research into their jobs, already started researching or asking about the gear they need, and then inevitably begun to look for ways to make gil to buy these items. Which means these basic methods of making gil.. which are super new-player friendly, should become quickly known to them.

Any player that doesn't start upgrading their gear so they are at the basic level to CP.. absolutely has no business in a CP party.



No.. absolute BS. There are literally countless guides and bits of information for new players to figure this stuff out. What you're arguing is that players that have put in no effort to find this information for themselves are owed this knowledge and information by the community that has been here for years. It's just not true.

They have the responsibility to start figuring it out for themselves. Once they put forth that effort and can actually contribute to a group, that's when they can do the most basic content in this game. Like joining a CP party.

New players to adapt to ffxis learning curve takes a bit and can be kinda rough...

Expecting someone who has played newer mmos to downgrade to one where you need to alt tab for every quest to get info on what to do next is kinda a huge stretch especially in a game with a monthly subscription

We all began with online forums and wikis when we started this game. If we're still around, I'm gonna safely assume that otherwise the frustration of this game would drive anyone batshit.

This game has always been built around community and information found outside the game. There's no shame in expecting new players to do the same.

Oh i agree

I enjoy reading forums and getting info and bettering myself with knowledge

But to expect a new player to pay a sub then to research missions/jobs/gear is kinda a stretch... no mini maps... windower4 some people relate to cheating (i dont care i use that like water) which you need to learn how to use

Most will just drop out and play wow or a newer mmo which has the difficulty of opening a can of soda has spoiled this era of gamers

There was a quest that I was trying to complete in Adoulin but the NPC absolutely would not give the dialogue for it. I triple checked to make sure my fame/rank was high enough etc etc and nothing. Eventually I called a GM to see if he could “Un-***” the quest and the GM literally told me “You should ask your fellow adventurers for tips and information about doing quests. Perhaps they can point you to a guide”

Even the goddamn GM (basically) told me to “Look that ***up, bro” Lolol it’s just that kind of game. Always has been.

Edit:
In the interest of keeping the game up with the times I do agree that having more information tied to the quests so that we DONT HAVE TO hit a forum would certainly be nice. Hopefully something like that could be implemented. There’s several ROV Quests that give at least SOME information now right? Maybe expand on that more? Idk

The market for mars orbs doesnt exist on all servers.

Also, if your idea of a requirement for CP is in depth research before CP, youre part of the problem this thread is outlining.

CP is the current equivalent to what we had as dunes parties. Its the first actual chance newer players are going to have to actually team up and learn their job and learn other members jobs.

You wouldnt expect a dunes party member to do in depth research on their jobs when they first started a dunes party. Why are we expecting everyone have their ducks in a row in a CP party, the literal modern equivalent?

You sound so ridiculous dude..

They should have learned the basics of their job leveling from 1-99 and getting basic gear. CP parties aren't the "equivalent of dunes parties", they are a time sink to take your character past lv 99, past merits, past ilvl 119. CP/JP was literally designed to make us all capable of taking on item level 125-135+ content without having to artificially increase item level again. It's what you do after you have done all of the basic requirements for your job, including obtaining useful gear and learning the mechanics of whatever job you've chosen. It was not designed for brand new players.

You have level 1-99, missions, quests, limits breaks.. all to learn your job. CP parties are not the place for that.

I’m sorry but that’s not accurate by SEs announcement when they introduced Apex mobs and proper RnD has always been a thing even in Dunes.

“Do you have any DEX gear?”
“Do you have food?”

“Do you know what to pull?”
“You know to absolutely NOT touch the goblin yet right?”

“Do you know what a Skillchain is?”
“Do you know what a Magic Burst is?”
“Do you have that scroll yet? It will really speed up our kills if you do”

I don’t know what server you were on during dunes but on Kujata (now Valefore) ***was taken seriously. NOOOOO OOOONE wanted to have to take that walk of shame half way across the beach getting back to camp after a *** up so we pressed our players hard. If it’s something that simply needed to be taught? We teach if it’s something critical that’s missing? “This is what you need, how fast can you get it?” And if your answer was anything other than “Grabbing it right now” you’ll be met with a “Sorry we found someone else, maybe next time”

Lol ohhhh the not-so-good ol’ days

Fixed...sort of

CP parties are the place for everything, from dunes to collibri merit parties.

When in doubt, ignore the shout. Everything about learning once's job has been pushed as far back as possible.

No, he's right. in 2019 you learn the job at 119, not before.

lol'd in gain-xp. On another note, hope it's not crowded tonight, I could use another 15m+ (low balling).

You're only half right Jet

Vets learn the job at 119, not before. But the basics of a job.. new players still learn that on the way – since they don't get their friends to AFK plvl them with their five alts.

But the point remains.. new players need to learn what they're doing and get geared to a baseline level before they can CP effectively.

No I'm entirely right, solo leveling with trusts =/= playing the job in group content at all.

It's laughable that anyone still thinks that leveling a job = learning a job.

IQ >80 is learning a job

leveling a job is grinding

lol...

I will give to the concept that learning all the mechanics and how to properly make sets requires a lot of reading, granted it helps that people have done a lot of the testing, math and whatnot already.

It's not that you learn to play a job in group content.. it's that you learn the basics of a job period. How many "veterans" plvl their way to 99 on say, Runefencer, and then have no idea what any of their job abilities do.

A new player, who has to do all of the missions, all of the unlocks, all of the smaller fights, will learn the basic mechanics of their job more than someone who just had their buddy plvl them 1-99 in an hour or two.

But all of that is irrelevant.. because we're talking about being prepared. Any player should be prepared with BASIC knowledge, and at least a good starting set of gear before they attempt to join a CP party.

Nyaarun's argument is that there shouldn't be any requirement at all because new players have no idea where to go, what to do, or how to make any money – therefor it's everyone's job to help them. And frankly, it's not. They have to put in the research and do the work ahead of time.

CP parties were not designed for new players. Sure, you can maybe learn more group dynamics in a CP party (which is semi-debatable, considering CP parties use very specific strats or no strats.. and most of that is comparable to modern group content), but that isn't the point of them. The point of JP is to take your character further than basic 119. It's not something that new players need to be concerned about until they reach that first plateau.

Don't agree to the first part, and couldn't care less on the second.

CP parties might not have been designed for new players, but thats ultimately what the state of the game has become, simply because there is no group content before CP that you realistically do anymore. Theres no point doing anything pre 119 that isnt strictly powerleveling the new player if you are going to do group pre 119 content. Not like people get to 75 and go "alright, lets go kill sky gods". You either solo to 119, or get PLd.