That Impeachment Thing....

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フォーラム » Everything Else » Politics and Religion » That impeachment thing....
That impeachment thing....
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 Ragnarok.Ozment
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By Ragnarok.Ozment 2019-12-09 22:08:50  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Also, FYI, nobody's going to read a HuffPo link. You can do better than link that garbage.

Is HuffPo bad? Was it false information that I shared? That wasn't my intention, and I guess I fell for the facts I don't like that there is a 9am press conference tomorrow to unveil articles of impeachment. My bad.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-12-09 22:20:27  
Ragnarok.Ozment said: »
I guess I fell for the facts I don't like

It's okay, at least you can admit it.

Taking quotes out of context is fun!

Ragnarok.Ozment said: »
See, we do have some things in common.

:-)
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 Ragnarok.Ozment
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By Ragnarok.Ozment 2019-12-09 22:28:08  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Ragnarok.Ozment said: »
I guess I fell for the facts I don't like

It's okay, at least you can admit it.

Taking quotes out of context is fun!

It looks like the student has become the master remained the student. :D
 Odin.Slore
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By Odin.Slore 2019-12-10 06:44:42  
The downfall for this for the dems is regardless of party most people vote with their wallet. The economy is rocketing up. Hell my 401k is raking it in hand over fist and so is everyone elses too. You can't detract from that and voters won't. Sure you will get your hardcore dems to vote for the candidate but holy ***are you hemorrhaging undecideds.

Not even talking as a conservative and talking with moderate dems, this is the worst thing they could have done.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-12-10 08:33:20  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Viciouss said: »
Articles are expected to be written tomorrow, the hearings are done unless the WH decides to stop obstructing.

Before you prematurely declare victory again, I'll give you yet another opportunity to explain what the strategy is. The tide of public support for impeachment has already turned in battleground states, so Pelosi took her perfect opportunity to call for censure and instead is going for the Hail Mary? Why? Writing up official articles isn't going to rally any fence-sitters to their cause and the outcome has already been decided, so what's the point?


I know right, like the Dems could of pulled a victory out of this mess and strengthened their position for the 2020 election. All they had to of done was decided to vote for Censor while simultaneously saying they decided "against impeachment" because they felt they didn't want the nation divided further over such a "terrible President". Like they could of taken the high ground here and saved from the backlash that's happening now. Instead they doubled down on stupid and turned impeachment into a reality TV show while giving Republicans control over the season finale. Most swing voters are sitting at home drinking a beer while watching some of this stuff thinking "damn that's some dumb ***".

Democrats be thinking swing voters are like this



When really they are like this

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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-12-10 09:21:50  
There's more to the economy than stocks. Wages are rising faster than inflation. Unemployment is about as low as it can possibly get.

The keyboard warriors can lament about how bad things are while sitting at their comfy desks or tapping on their expensive phones, but the booming economy is benefitting a vast majority of the population whether they realize it or not.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-12-10 09:58:22  
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Wages are rising faster than inflation. Unemployment is about as low as it can possibly get.

Those 2 would be cause and effect, but unemployment was already low before Trump took office. You can claim it's a 10 billion years low, it went down from 4.5 to 3.5 (Still great and I'm sure it's a lot more difficult to do as the number is lower).

But yes, there is more than stocks. Farmers are doing terrible, steel and coal are still doing poorly, auto industry in also on the decline, these are all sectors Trump said he would save.

And if you look back to any time of economic prosperity, you will see at least a few industries that struggled. You named several industries that are subject to the whims of global markets. I'm not sure what your point is.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-12-10 10:12:33  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Wages are rising faster than inflation. Unemployment is about as low as it can possibly get.

Those 2 would be cause and effect, but unemployment was already low before Trump took office. You can claim it's a 10 billion years low, it went down from 4.5 to 3.5 (Still great and I'm sure it's a lot more difficult to do as the number is lower).

But yes, there is more than stocks. Farmers are doing terrible, steel and coal are still doing poorly, auto industry in also on the decline, these are all sectors Trump said he would save.

And if you look back to any time of economic prosperity, you will see at least a few industries that struggled. You named several industries that are subject to the whims of global markets. I'm not sure what your point is.

You can keep trying to talk economics with Shiroi but remember he preferred the economy with Obama was President remember.

By all objective measures the economy for the USA is doing great under President Trump. You can't really discuss facts with radical leftists though, they don't care about them and rely exclusively on feelings for the truth.

Reference the below guide to understand radical leftists feelings

Quote:
Democrats Good
Republicans Bad
Orange Man VERY BAD

As for "impeachment", it will just boost President Trumps popularity. See Bill Clinton for how that one worked, Republicans had a far stronger, though still stupid, case against Clinton and all they did was give his reelection campaign fuel.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-12-10 10:12:39  
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
And if you look back to any time of economic prosperity, you will see at least a few industries that struggled.

Obviously.

Bahamut.Ravael said: »
You named several industries that are subject to the whims of global markets. I'm not sure what your point is.

Starting trade wars with everyone was a terrible idea?

Keeping the status quo was a terrible idea. And even economists can't seem to agree on who's "winning", but obviously you've chosen a side based on your hatred for Trump. Why don't we wait and see before issuing judgment?
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-12-10 10:19:56  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
And if you look back to any time of economic prosperity, you will see at least a few industries that struggled.

Obviously.

Bahamut.Ravael said: »
You named several industries that are subject to the whims of global markets. I'm not sure what your point is.

Starting trade wars with everyone was a terrible idea?

Keeping the status quo was a terrible idea. And even economists can't seem to agree on who's "winning", but obviously you've chosen a side based on your hatred for Trump. Why don't we wait and see before issuing judgment?

The status quot was wealthy elites with off shore bank accounts getting wealthier with overseas investments. The US market is pretty much taped out for easily exploitable profits, need them "developing nations" where you can make massive profits based on labor arbitrage. To do that you need one sided trade agreements. Since elites pay off both sides, neither party was willing to say anything about how they was transferring wealth from the US middle class to developing nations and then into the investment portfolios of the elites.
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By fonewear 2019-12-10 10:21:46  
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Wages are rising faster than inflation. Unemployment is about as low as it can possibly get.

Those 2 would be cause and effect, but unemployment was already low before Trump took office. You can claim it's a 10 billion years low, it went down from 4.5 to 3.5 (Still great and I'm sure it's a lot more difficult to do as the number is lower).

But yes, there is more than stocks. Farmers are doing terrible, steel and coal are still doing poorly, auto industry in also on the decline, these are all sectors Trump said he would save.

What do Canadians farm besides maple syrup and ice ?
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By fonewear 2019-12-10 10:23:24  
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Odin.Slore said: »
The downfall for this for the dems is regardless of party most people vote with their wallet. The economy is rocketing up. Hell my 401k is raking it in hand over fist and so is everyone elses too. You can't detract from that and voters won't. Sure you will get your hardcore dems to vote for the candidate but holy ***are you hemorrhaging undecideds.

Not even talking as a conservative and talking with moderate dems, this is the worst thing they could have done.

The economy is completely unrelated to the misconduct/abuse of power allegations. Also it's deceptive how you think the stocks increasing matters that much when it comes to votes.

~52% of americans owns stocks or a 401k/something similar.
The top 10% owns ~85% of the stocks
The 80-90% owns ~10%
and everyone below owns 5%

I mean sure it's great, but 50% of americans are completely unaffected and 30% aren't making that much out of it, maybe they don't realize it yet and just parrots the talking points.

I can make up numbers too. 90% of Americans like chocolate other 10% are unsure.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-12-10 10:23:27  
fonewear said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Wages are rising faster than inflation. Unemployment is about as low as it can possibly get.

Those 2 would be cause and effect, but unemployment was already low before Trump took office. You can claim it's a 10 billion years low, it went down from 4.5 to 3.5 (Still great and I'm sure it's a lot more difficult to do as the number is lower).

But yes, there is more than stocks. Farmers are doing terrible, steel and coal are still doing poorly, auto industry in also on the decline, these are all sectors Trump said he would save.

What do Canadians farm besides maple syrup and ice ?

Moose jerky.
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By fonewear 2019-12-10 10:24:27  
Nothing makes a good argument by throwing in random percentages to distract someone.
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By fonewear 2019-12-10 10:25:19  
Bonus points if you use a fraction in your argument so people have to do the math.

4/5 of Canadians are full of ***.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-12-10 10:26:54  
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-12-10 10:32:48  
fonewear said: »
Nothing makes a good argument by throwing in random percentages to distract someone.

Especially as he was focused on stocks, and not bonds, notes or the massive one, property. Most american have their wealth stored in their home as represented by the mortgage ladder. Property serves two purposes, first it's the place you live, second is that it serves as semi-safe storage vault for accumulated wealth. This is why the economic crash of 08 and 09 was so hard on middle class American voters, property values went nuclear for several years. Upper middle class professionals tend to have more stocks and bonds while the low wealthy folks have lots of stocks and bonds. The mega wealthy on the other hand store almost all their value in business's as investment vehicles, similar to stocks except better managed.

The stock market is legalized gambling, you don't invest in "the stock market", you buy partial ownership to specific companies, if those companies perform well their stock goes up and you get more money when you sell, if they do poorly the stock goes down and you lose money when you sell. We tend to look at averages like the S&P 500 as an index on the general health, but each transaction is against a single company. Then you got funds which are blending of multiple stocks, less risk but also less potential reward.

Simply put, risk = reward and time = money. Stocks are risky but also have high reward potential, property is less risky but lower potential. The rule here is the same for all gambling, don't place a bet with money your not prepared to lose.
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By fonewear 2019-12-10 10:34:50  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
There's more to the economy than stocks. Wages are rising faster than inflation. Unemployment is about as low as it can possibly get.

The keyboard warriors can lament about how bad things are while sitting at their comfy desks or tapping on their expensive phones, but the booming economy is benefitting a vast majority of the population whether they realize it or not.

Nothing like people that know nothing about the economy...log on to FFXIAH > PnR> Ask me anything I'm a economics major...I just took Economist 101...I got a C average but hey that ain't too bad !
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By fonewear 2019-12-10 10:35:25  
Yesterday I didn't know what the word economy meant...today I'm an expert.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-12-10 10:39:32  
I'm not an expert, but I read an article from a website that always shares my views where they quoted a guy who claims to be an expert. That means I'm right!
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By fonewear 2019-12-10 10:52:11  
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
but obviously you've chosen a side based on your hatred for Trump.

Nobody is winning.

Really though. How does impeachment benefit the average American ?

It doesn't. All it does is makes people more distrustful of government and voting.

Why vote when some *** in Congress want to overturn your vote ?

Shows you how out of touch Congress and your representatives are.

Like or hate Trump he is still our President. And you should want him to succeed. If you want him to fail you probably have some sort of mental disorder. Or are very petty.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2019-12-10 10:58:27  
But meanwhile in impeachment news...

House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler unveiled the articles of impeachment against the president.

Quote:

Over the last several months, the investigative committees of the House have been engaged in an impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump’s efforts to solicit foreign interference in the 2020 elections, efforts that compromised our national security and threatened the integrity of our elections. Throughout this inquiry he has attempted to conceal the evidence from Congress and from the American people.

Our president holds the ultimate public trust. When he betrays that trust and puts himself before country, he endangers the Constitution, he endangers our democracy, and he endangers our national security.

The Framers of the Constitution prescribed a clear remedy for presidents who so violate their oath of office. That is the power of impeachment.

Today, in service to our duty to the Constitution and to our country, the House Committee on the Judiciary is introducing two articles of impeachment charging the president of the United States, Donald J. Trump, with committing high crimes and misdemeanors.

The first article is for abuse of power. It is an impeachable offense for the president to exercise the powers of his public office to obtain an improper personal benefit while ignoring or injuring the national interest. That is exactly what President Trump did when he solicited and pressured Ukraine to interfere in our 2020 presidential election, thus damaging our national security, undermining the integrity of the next election, and violating his oath to the American people.

These actions moreover are consistent with President Trump’s previous invitations of foreign interference in our 2016 presidential election. And when he was caught, when the House investigated and opened an impeachment inquiry, President Trump engaged in unprecedented, categorical, and indiscriminate defiance of the impeachment inquiry.

This gives rise to the second article of impeachment for obstruction of Congress. Here, too, we see a familiar pattern in President Trump’s misconduct. A president who declares himself above accountability, above the American people, and above Congress’ power of impeachment, which is meant to protect against threats to our democratic institutions, is a president who sees himself as above the law. We must be clear, no one, not even the president, is above the law.
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By fonewear 2019-12-10 10:59:30  
The beauty of all this is it's Christmas season. And nobody gives a ***about procedural votes and esoteric lawyer talk.

So the Democrats are basically putting on a show for no one.

Maybe they like to feel important on TV.

That's about all they will get out of this.
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By fonewear 2019-12-10 11:00:58  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
But meanwhile in impeachment news...

House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler unveiled the articles of impeachment against the president.

Quote:

Over the last several months, the investigative committees of the House have been engaged in an impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump’s efforts to solicit foreign interference in the 2020 elections, efforts that compromised our national security and threatened the integrity of our elections. Throughout this inquiry he has attempted to conceal the evidence from Congress and from the American people.

Our president holds the ultimate public trust. When he betrays that trust and puts himself before country, he endangers the Constitution, he endangers our democracy, and he endangers our national security.

The Framers of the Constitution prescribed a clear remedy for presidents who so violate their oath of office. That is the power of impeachment.

Today, in service to our duty to the Constitution and to our country, the House Committee on the Judiciary is introducing two articles of impeachment charging the president of the United States, Donald J. Trump, with committing high crimes and misdemeanors.

The first article is for abuse of power. It is an impeachable offense for the president to exercise the powers of his public office to obtain an improper personal benefit while ignoring or injuring the national interest. That is exactly what President Trump did when he solicited and pressured Ukraine to interfere in our 2020 presidential election, thus damaging our national security, undermining the integrity of the next election, and violating his oath to the American people.

These actions moreover are consistent with President Trump’s previous invitations of foreign interference in our 2016 presidential election. And when he was caught, when the House investigated and opened an impeachment inquiry, President Trump engaged in unprecedented, categorical, and indiscriminate defiance of the impeachment inquiry.

This gives rise to the second article of impeachment for obstruction of Congress. Here, too, we see a familiar pattern in President Trump’s misconduct. A president who declares himself above accountability, above the American people, and above Congress’ power of impeachment, which is meant to protect against threats to our democratic institutions, is a president who sees himself as above the law. We must be clear, no one, not even the president, is above the law.

Article Three bluster and puffery made to feel important !
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By fonewear 2019-12-10 11:02:22  
I'm pretty sure the Founding Father didn't have phone calls in mind when it came to "impeachment" but hmm...did they have phones in 1776 maybe they used those plastic cups on a string to communicate.
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By 2019-12-10 11:13:06
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