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ALL TRUMP!!! ALL THE TIME!!!
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-02-24 15:16:01
The kind of A.I. that can replace humans in many skilled positions isn’t going to exist long before any kind of singularity, though. That’s the point. Robots can’t think critically.
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By fonewear 2020-02-24 15:40:58
You could argue that AI will create more jobs than it kills. But I don't want to do research on a Monday.
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By fonewear 2020-02-24 15:41:59
Same thing happened during the industrial revolution. Mechanical farming machines etc. But we adapted to it.
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2020-02-24 15:45:45
On topic but in a different direction.
Turns our Trump Administration is doing more to support "da gays" around the world then the previous one.
Wondering how many of you will realize who exactly is talking.
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When was the last time anyone of you guys say something on this level from main stream media sources (on both sides).
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By fonewear 2020-02-24 15:48:34
AI is a good thing though. I'm tired of thinking all the time. Let the robots do the thinking for me.
Maybe we can get rid of math too I ain't got time for math.
By fonewear 2020-02-24 15:49:34
On topic but in a different direction.
Turns our Trump Administration is doing more to support "da gays" around the world then the previous one.
Wondering how many of you will realize who exactly is talking.
YouTube Video Placeholder
When was the last time anyone of you guys say something on this level from main stream media sources (on both sides).
An hour long video I forgot what the topic was after 30 seconds.
By Viciouss 2020-02-24 15:53:39
You lasted longer than everyone else fone! Also, Shiva!
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2020-02-24 16:00:57
On topic but in a different direction.
Turns our Trump Administration is doing more to support "da gays" around the world then the previous one.
Wondering how many of you will realize who exactly is talking.
YouTube Video Placeholder
When was the last time anyone of you guys say something on this level from main stream media sources (on both sides).
An hour long video I forgot what the topic was after 30 seconds.
The format is long informal conversation like what we might have with each other if one side didn't shout all the time. Most of his atuff is extremely good, not yelling just comfortable discussion. His interview of Tulsi is what had me really supporting her.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 655
By Shiva.Zerowone 2020-02-24 16:02:34
Nobody is really talking about A.I singularity in terms of Industrial and Commercial automation.
Designing machines to do repetitive routines with more efficiency and consistency than a human counterpart is nowhere near that realm.
But to return to point about industrial automation:
not everyone is the mythical John Henry who could out work a steam powered rock drilling machine.... even then he died in his endeavor.
Which should really hammer home that in the US the worker has been getting phased out by machines for well over a century. It’s even in our folklore.
I think this fits into the whole we agree with each other but we’re arguing anyway because we’re not on the same page thing.
Yes it because you’re standpoint is that what you perceive as complexity is a system that can not be simplified into basic routines that automation could easily cover.
Whereas I’m saying what we really think of as complexity are systems that can be broken down into simple routines that could be automated.
That’s where the disagreement stems.
To your point on A.I, just remember it doesn’t have to actually think (that would be Intelligence), it just needs the appearance there of (hence the artificiality).
Which is akin to Realism and Impressionism in Art.
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-02-24 16:38:56
Nobody is really talking about A.I singularity in terms of Industrial and Commercial automation.
Designing machines to do repetitive routines with more efficiency and consistency than a human counterpart is nowhere near that realm.
But to return to point about industrial automation:
not everyone is the mythical John Henry who could out work a steam powered rock drilling machine.... even then he died in his endeavor.
Which should really hammer home that in the US the worker has been getting phased out by machines for well over a century. It’s even in our folklore.
I think this fits into the whole we agree with each other but we’re arguing anyway because we’re not on the same page thing.
Yes it because you’re standpoint is that what you perceive as complexity is a system that can not be simplified into basic routines that automation could easily cover.
Whereas I’m saying what we really think of as complexity are systems that can be broken down into simple routines that could be automated.
That’s where the disagreement stems.
To your point on A.I, just remember it doesn’t have to actually think (that would be Intelligence), it just needs the appearance there of (hence the artificiality).
Which is akin to Realism and Impressionism in Art.
Uhh, not quite. There are many systems and processes that could indeed be simplified and therefore automated. There are, however, many systems that are inherently complex that are well beyond any foreseeable automation.
Besides, we were only talking about how minimum wage increases pushed people out of jobs, so we didn’t really need to stray this far.
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Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2020-02-24 16:51:46
There are two piles of jobs, those that can be automated and those that can't.
The ones that can are ones that follow strict procedures and scripts, basically a giant IF - THEN table where the human is merely interpreting the instructions handed to them. The human doing the interpretation can be replaced, the human who wrote those instructions can't.
The jobs that can't automated are either ones where critical thinking and decision making are important, or where human interaction and creativity are important. As creative geniuses are extremely rare we can put them in the same bucket as senior scientists, leaving only the human interaction field.
Taking orders at Burger King is not a job where human interaction is important. Being a waitress at an expensive restaurant who take complicated multi-party orders without fail is a job where human interaction is important. The cashier at a convince store isn't really there to ring orders up, they are there to dissuade casual shoplifters.
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By fonewear 2020-02-24 16:57:15
Of all the jobs out there I don't see why statistician should be one that is far from AI affecting. It doesn't have to replace your whole job to affect you. If it can do 30% of what you do you'll say you can do more of the other 70%, but then there's only so much to be done and the number of jobs would eventually decrease by 30%.
25% of me gives a ***.
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Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-02-24 17:04:37
Of all the jobs out there I don't see why statistician should be one that is far from AI affecting. It doesn't have to replace your whole job to affect you. If it can do 30% of what you do you'll say you can do more of the other 70%, but then there's only so much to be done and the number of jobs would eventually decrease by 30%.
Ignoring for a moment that you can’t comprehend what it is a statistician does without the study/experience (true of almost any field), there are already things that do a lot of my work for me. They’re called “tools”. Things like computers save me a ton of time every day. You give me an AI that can do 30% of my job and you’ve given me valuable time to do even more complex stuff that an AI can’t touch. Bring it on.
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By fonewear 2020-02-24 17:05:46
AI is only as smart as the person designing it. I don't think we are at risk of robots killing us all yet...maybe someday just not today.
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By fonewear 2020-02-24 17:06:20
Also if anything AI makes things easier for people. Why the hell do you think we created computers ? So we don't have to do all that shitty math over and over.
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By fonewear 2020-02-24 17:07:51
Look at Alexa I don't know how that ***works. I think it is magic. They put a spell on that little box. So this *** can tell me the weather and so on.
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Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-02-24 18:07:10
Of all the jobs out there I don't see why statistician should be one that is far from AI affecting. It doesn't have to replace your whole job to affect you. If it can do 30% of what you do you'll say you can do more of the other 70%, but then there's only so much to be done and the number of jobs would eventually decrease by 30%.
Ignoring for a moment that you can’t comprehend what it is a statistician does without the study/experience (true of almost any field), there are already things that do a lot of my work for me. They’re called “tools”. Things like computers save me a ton of time every day. You give me an AI that can do 30% of my job and you’ve given me valuable time to do even more complex stuff that an AI can’t touch. Bring it on. I already addressed what you've just said in the post. I 100% knew it would be your response before you posted it.
The fact is, if there was an infinite amount of work in your field and demand was higher than supply there'd be more people working in it.
Except that's not always the case in the real world. I don't have one of those jobs where it's "we need x people to fill x spots to cover x amount of shifts". I was specifically brought on by an old coworker who knows my skill set and has a vision for how he can implement it. If he didn't know me, he might never have thought to hire someone like me. It's hard to have a demand for something that you don't even know is possible. Judging by most of your attitudes towards statisticians, you also don't have a clue (which is fine).
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Garuda.Chanti
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11372
By Garuda.Chanti 2020-02-24 18:12:21
Wait.. how can anyone think that cost of human labour isn't competing with the cost of machine labour? The higher the human cost the greater the incentive to replace that human with a machine or computer. Machine automation is extremely capital intensive, not just the cost to purchase but also the cost to research and develop. Problems with machine's are expensive to fix requiring more research and code changes. People costs can be as cheap as a piece of paper saying "do X then Y".
Cranking up the costs of humans makes that capital investment and expense very attractive. Human labor doesn't cost the same everywhere. That's why America lost jobs to Mexico which then lost jobs to China and Viet-Nam.
Also while machine automation might be expensive, machines depreciate. They don't get health insurance either. Or call in sick. Or have a problem with 24 hour / 7 day shifts.
I will add that in Japan machines pay union dues.... (Not a joke.)
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No industrial machine with faulty code is released into production. Think about you’re saying.... Boeing says "hold my beer."
By fonewear 2020-02-24 18:14:21
Wait.. how can anyone think that cost of human labour isn't competing with the cost of machine labour? The higher the human cost the greater the incentive to replace that human with a machine or computer. Machine automation is extremely capital intensive, not just the cost to purchase but also the cost to research and develop. Problems with machine's are expensive to fix requiring more research and code changes. People costs can be as cheap as a piece of paper saying "do X then Y".
Cranking up the costs of humans makes that capital investment and expense very attractive. Human labor doesn't cost the same everywhere. That's why America lost jobs to Mexico which then lost jobs to China and Viet-Nam.
Also while machine automation might be expensive, machines depreciate. They don't get health insurance either. Or call in sick. Or have a problem with 24 hour / 7 day shifts.
I will add that in Japan machines pay union dues.... (Not a joke.)
...
No industrial machine with faulty code is released into production. Think about you’re saying.... Boeing says "hold my beer."
What the *** does anything have to do with Vietnam Walter !
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Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-02-24 18:25:05
I occasionally have ‘Nam flashbacks. Or maybe those are just reruns of M*A*S*H. Either way, Alan Alda’s voice gives me PTSD.
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Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-02-24 18:34:24
Of all the jobs out there I don't see why statistician should be one that is far from AI affecting. It doesn't have to replace your whole job to affect you. If it can do 30% of what you do you'll say you can do more of the other 70%, but then there's only so much to be done and the number of jobs would eventually decrease by 30%.
Ignoring for a moment that you can’t comprehend what it is a statistician does without the study/experience (true of almost any field), there are already things that do a lot of my work for me. They’re called “tools”. Things like computers save me a ton of time every day. You give me an AI that can do 30% of my job and you’ve given me valuable time to do even more complex stuff that an AI can’t touch. Bring it on. I already addressed what you've just said in the post. I 100% knew it would be your response before you posted it.
The fact is, if there was an infinite amount of work in your field and demand was higher than supply there'd be more people working in it.
Except that's not always the case in the real world. I don't have one of those jobs where it's "we need x people to fill x spots to cover x amount of shifts". I was specifically brought on by an old coworker who knows my skill set and has a vision for how he can implement it. If he didn't know me, he might never have thought to hire someone like me. It's hard to have a demand for something that you don't even know is possible. Judging by most of your attitudes towards statisticians, you also don't have a clue (which is fine). One minute you're talking about statisticians in general, the next you switch to your personal and extremely anecdotal position as if that is somehow a coherent response.
No worries, I am used to your inability to follow a discussion for more than 2 posts by now.
I would have willingly spent further conversation tying it all together if you hadn't randomly gone back to acting like your usual d-bag self in the final sentence, but I'll gladly ignore you and continue the conversation with literally anyone else if they're interested.
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Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-02-24 19:01:41
You're being your usual dbag self. If you can't see how using a general and brosd term like "statistician" then straw manning a reasoned response with "ohh but in myyyyy job" bs is just your typical rhetoric... Oh wait no, you're never going to get this. Massive waste of time.
This is like me telling you that I'm a Researcher and a Professor and then being pissy when you don't know what my specific jobs entail. That would be stupid.
You don't see me making generalized, uneducated, and blanket statements about your field, do you? Even if I did, your experience would be drawn from, get this, your experiences from your own jobs.
The point of being in a data-driven field is that there is no end to the amount of work that can do you improve your surroundings. Major business initiatives like lean, six sigma, continuous improvement (kaizen) all have statistical foundations. You made the stupid claim that automating 30% of every statistician's job would somehow eliminate 30% of their jobs, as if there was some kind of quota to how much you can apply data to improve any given field.
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By fonewear 2020-02-24 19:13:02
Anytime I see people use percentages to make a point. I think there is 100% chance of me thinking they are full of ***.
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When you have to talk trump do it here.
Positive, negative, I don't care.
I don't expect this thread to stay civil. I do expect no personal attacks or profanity. Please preview before you post.
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