August BST Update

as cute as the manifesto vision from 2011 is, it does not describe what they have done, nor does it describe the outlook NOW.

Ironic that Corrosive Ooze and Purulent Ooze have been around since before Geo was a job, but were never really appreciated by community until recently.

Never said my method is superior. Never said people are doing it wrong, unless you think DPS is the only way to play. I am simply saying, max DPS. THat is it. Under max buffs. Stop being so defensive. I even agreed with you for low buffs. You dont have to win everything lol. I would agree more if you said bursting was the best way to make the PET do bigger dmg. I simply said I dont care about the low end content.

Sure ill get my numbers. Please grab yours as well. What was your DPS for bursting parties compared to zerg parties with various weapons? With trusts and without trusts. whichever buffs etc. Id prefer your max buff numbers. I dont really care or even contest trust only buffs. If you think pet bursting is best DPS for bst with truts, then I beleive you. It isnt even close on high buff. What 6 man party you using that has the bst doing the SC and bursting? would't a blm make way more sense and just have the bst open the SC? I think you are talking solo content tbh.

Reading through, neither of us have posted anything to back up our "most dps" claims. How much DPS is bursting beating your spams by? what level of attack vs what targets?

The BG wiki page lists corrosive ooze under the "Defense Down" page as -33%, tied with the highest player value possible (the other bring a UC spell). But if you click on the link, it only shows the Blue magic version, which is a mere -5%. So if a player typed in "Corrosive Ooze" in the search field, he would be taken to the page for blue mages and assume that ability from BST is worthless. He wouldn't initially think "let me check the Defense down or attack down page to see how useful this ability is". This, coupled with the fact that BST has always been viewed as a loner job (and didn't have Dolichenus until recently) are contributing factors to it being largely ignored in ffxi meta. People simply weren't aware of it and the players who did likely never shared it among group events a long time ago for it to be more public knowledge. I'll admit, I also had no idea these abilities existed until recently, and I'm sure others didn't either. And GEO is just easier (until it's immune) to plop a bubble and have capped attack.

BST just never got a fair chance at parties. It's fun as hell, just not respected. It's funny because SMN was once not really respected and desired until AFAC became the thing. Now they are being seen as having use even in party setting that doesn't include this tactic (HTBFs).

Some discussion on the Patch. Even with all the debate I think it's fair to say everyone is pretty excited.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtEjRvdlDbc

Also angon and Ageha and Armor break exist. Ooze was just not very needed. Bst is a superstar on wave three though. I would like it to be good on other content. I want to do more than be a star on the most lagged content in the game.

I agree but I'm just giving context as to why most people weren't checking for BST and corrosive ooze like that. It's always been a community problem, not job issue.

People didn't care about attack -33% because everything was zerg until it falls. Defense down for the longest while was: frailty, dia, and the opposite effect, attack songs rolls and bubbles. Box step was whatever, people don't even know the values, who cares, use frailty and minuets. I don't even see Warriors use weapon break to help out their party defensively. I would guess I have seen weapon break or infernal scythe maybe five times in my entire ffxi career from other players, because people don't value certain stats until someone TELLS THEM they need it. And let's keep it a buck, 95% of Sam don't have a clue Ageha exists. Do ambuscade this month. People don't know which defense down moves stack. Everything has been frailty dia and chaos roll for so long, they have to check the wiki before organizing. On the flip side, people don't request Minnes/Gallants or Bio very often, defensive play style is just not what players utilize. It all comes down to what players prioritize and that's what makes it's way into a party.

So in relation to BST and corrosive ooze, IF players even know it exists, the only thing they are thinking is "well it adds defense down but has lower attack so let's just add a job that does more damage and make up the Defense down elsewhere".

A little bit of history there:

Remember that for basically the entire game, none of those additional effects landed. It wasn't until fairly recently that they finally fixed that.

Probably including ooze, but I don't know for sure.

Please let the current player base know about this.

Was the slug even released pre-geo? I remember just using Falcor in the 99 cap days.

Gooey Gerard was out in ~2011 GEO is 2013

I dont really like your approach Spaitin. Many viable strategies are simply pushed down by people like you, because of efficiency. You only accept the most efficient way to deal with things, which most of the time is just based on "kill it fast". You even clearly say you dont care about the low end content, but I think that can be taken further to "you dont care about any strategies that are slower than fastest one". It's easily recognizable when you keep talking about -33% def, while totally ignoring -33% attack, which is a huge debuff too and if you stack it with other things, you can win fights in totally different way. Even when you say about possible updates to BST you only look at it from higher dps perspective (buff damage from pets, ja haste on master, ready being dps trap etc.)

JP players for a long time were doing things different way from what I heard. They prefer safer, more strategical approach, even if it's slower.

Many other players also prefer to use different tools to win the fight. Not because it's more efficient, but they enjoy it more. Not everything needs to be cut to your way of playing the game, which, based of your posts, is superbuff solo skillchaining DD in party or offensively superbuff several DDs in ally. I think you wouldnt go for different strategy unless you would be forced to do it, am I wrong?

I think the huge reason for this is multiboxing. You treat support jobs kinda like NPCs, because they are mainly controlled by macros/bots/etc while you mostly play on your DD. When support jobs were mostly played by real players, they were exploring those jobs more and they felt the need to be also included in winning strategy, so they were trying to suggest different methods actively using more supporting tools. Now in majority examples your support wont suggest you anything, unless you get drunk and start talking with yourself.

It's not like Im a multibox hater (I would need to hate myself) or I dont like zergs, but I actually like other strategies too and I definitely enjoy them more too. I still remember when I came back to game and my current LS was lowman mercing me some T3s in Reisen, they used different strategy for everything. They did Yakshi with SMN+PLD (+some support job, GEO I guess?)and SMN just rotating Volt and Mewing resulting in Yakshi never doing a single TP move. Then Magic Bursting something else etc. It was really great to watch and inspiring.

There is so much cool buffs/debuffs given to players and I dont really like when you try to flat out everything to jsut doing more dps in high level group content.

I was just thinking this when people started saying things like "they buffed DRG to be a better pet-using DD".

RDM and SCH can heal, but not as good as a WHM, so should RDM and SCH be boosted to the healing capability of WHM just because they have access to healing?

Now replace some jobs in that statement.

BST can have a pet and do damage, but not as good as a DRG, so should BST be boosted to the damage capability of DRG just because they are a pet-using DD?

In SquareEnix's eyes, it doesn't look like it. BST can have access to nearly the entire variety of wildlife from the game and use each for their unique effects. DRG gets a wyvern and only a wyvern and to be fair, it doesn't do much so it falls more on the DRG to be useful.

I know all jobs want to be bigger and better. It has spawned a lot of creativity from the community to push jobs to their limits and even make them viable in ways not initially apparent just based on a few job abilitys/spells/gear.

I'm still surprised that people debate "what if we got ____ and I think we should and here is why". Especially when it comes to BST updates. At this point it's very...


That is not to say that I don't feel bad when a job consistently feel like they are getting screwed over. As far as BST updates go however:

This is true, I forgot about how horrible those abilities were for so long. Still, I was reflecting more on the players' mindset in their strategies and party formation and not specifically on those set of abilities.

Just give bst pet a bubble and it only affect the bst master, this will help the bst forever soloing.

You joke, but something like a... ammo slot necklace that gives pets an aura could be a real possible thing.

Or even pets getting one slot to equip a "collar" with an aura

That would bring bst into the conversation and not be dynamically destructive

(steal avatars favor, jug's favor, they have no problem stealing from other jobs)

I see what you are trying to say. Just isnt working. RDM has the top end enfeebles. SCH has long lasting buffs that it can give as well as the unique long distance SC ability. SCH also has unique enhancements. Both are better solos than bst. RDM is now about the same as far as melee DPS with even better dmg when using enspells. Bst doesnt really have something they can do that stands out. They are okay in lower end content and very weak in most top end.

This isnt correct. Superbuffs are somewhat correct. Solo SCing? lol. In an alliance? almost never unless I am forced to do more wave three. Most of my parties are pugs that have everyone DPSing. cor bard tank dd etc. I think this is the 4th thread I had to remind you of that. I am sure you remember me suggesting the use of bst on wave three while a certain member of the war thread kept insisting it would be stupid to use that job. Granted that was awhile ago. I am sure you also remember me talking about how the defense helps on that content. In most content i dont think it helps much. Bst already has malignance.

I think you are confusing testing with playing. Tell me the strategy and the fight you are using it for and ill let you know if I like it or not. I enjoy new ideas.
I know you dont actually play bst, but maybe some of your friends do.

Yes you are. One of the more common strats i use these days is RDM enspelling everything with level 1 daggers. I also like to Subtle blow kill stuff. I guess you could argue that both are just zergs.

I wrote solo skillchaining in party aka 6/6 party with WAR superbuffed to the roof. I know you rarely play solo (aka with trusts, not multiboxing).



Yeah I would argue some of it is just zerg. You probably just zerg on MNK and subtle blow is just to make things faster.


Its not about BST, but your aproach in general. You focus mostly on damage in super buffed enviroment. Its ok to ignore solo, lowman and low/mid buffs scenarios, but its something different to expect other (inclusing SE) to only focus on your playstyle and say that one of the strongest self buffs in game are worthless, because they are not that usefull when superbuffed or probably best hate drop ability in game is worthless, because BST doesnt pull hate in superbuffed scenario fighting alongside bis DDs. All that is super powerful for lowman scenario.

Lol no on the solo SC thing. Not sure where you came up with that. You tend to not really read the comments, which explains why you have no idea what is wrong with bst. You just have no clue.
I only solo SC for zerde and 1 ambu fight a year. So no with that, for obvious reasons it is better not to solo SC all the time. I rarely multibox. Mostly pugs. I commonly multibox for testing, not general play. 4 threads I have explained to you that I do pugs more often than not.

I probably go solo with trusts 3-4x more often than multiboxing. Used to solo omen mobs a lot on war with just trusts. So no on that as well. I think there is maybe a language barrier causing issues.

The reason I am saying 6 man content for bst is pretty simple... i want bst to be viable in 6 man content. 6 man content is high buff content. Bst isnt good at low man. It is worse at 6 man and okay in 18 man.

Smart.

kind of a joke and kind of serious. Good for soloing i guess.

Bst pet damage works well if you are a bot selling exp. Irrelevant in other situations.

I am not sure if you understand what's going on other than trying to polish the failed job update. Have you used Tame lately? Not much right? Yeah that right. The current Bst jug pet reliant is the failed attempt at making Bst a DD in a party because whatever they tried before didn't work.

You argument looks like it was from back before they fixed Mnk WS. "We are good because we got subtle blows". Fair argument but completely irrelevant because everyone seems to be happy with the WS update. There was obviously something wrong but people didn't dare to think outside the box.

3Bst for 3 different buffs and debuffs is dumb. It's like 6 bards with tons of songs back at lv75 days. Sure you can probably cut it but would you do it? It's fun but not relevant to what Bst really need.

You get a job for a specific purpose. You get a whm to heal. You get a Run to tank. What do you get a Bst for? Sure 33% def on a tank pet is great for that pet but the master would be like a DD Brd. Would you replace a DD Brd or a Cor for a Bst? Bst plays a niche role when whenever you can't get other job or just the other jobs are redundant.

You should think harder before you dismiss other people ideas. Bst is weak in a party situation. It's not a good support job and it does similar damage to a support job.

You bank your hopes on getting new pets like an addict gambler hoping for a solution to his debt. For your information, you can't use the defense debuff with another pet. You can try to switch pets but honestly it's not a good idea to play it like getto Smn.

I havn't seen anybody mention that Courier Carrie has thrown off her basket, been goin' to the gym, and been gettin' ripped as seen in the update preview image.



Just kidding. I know it's called a "Barnacle Crab" versus a "Carrier Crab". With new pets comes new abilities even if the species/subspecies are different so this update should get us some cool new moves. Maybe a lot of cool new moves depending on the variety of new subspecies added so that could be a promising thing.

The update I still want is an icon change from classic jug icons to new fancy pokeball icons.



into:



Dat modders, where are you at? Do me this one favor, please.

Gamers are people, those people have personalities, those personalities transfer from the person into the game, therefore become the player. Some folks are loners, some folks are outgoing, some folks have trust issues and would rather do it themselves.

The Thanos multi-boxers

There is no wrong or right way to play an mmo if you get the dub. "Solo, no trust" is a thing in XI for a reason. The real G's in XI were those BLU who would solo ***that required a group, making people look like pussies shouting for a party.

I hated those BLU...

Unless they buff bst tremendouly like they did with mnk , i don't see bst doing any good overall, They should just give us back the ability to perform anything without being 0.5 yalms away from the pet. If they want bst to be a melee job with the pet how about adding a JA that increases pet atk,atk speed 25+% equal to master's stats to be on par with PUP, That should settle all their potato code problems.

I mean this kinda already exists with Run Wild. And you already get 20% attack speed with Job Points.

I just want them to stop trying to convert BST into a bland Dolichenus DD to appease the masses angry about a job that most don't even play actively.

Axe WS still need adjustments. It shouldn't be just Dolichenus Decimation domination. They need to strip most of that huge bonus of Dolichenus and just make Decimation and other WS not suck. BST has two magic WS that can't even come close to others. My SCH with no support does more damage with Daybreak Seraph Strike than I can do on BST with Primal or Cloudsplitter.

I honestly don't like fixing BST melee through pets. It feels messy and unnecessary, just give the job some melee traits and give the JAs it has some use. Why does it have to be tied to the pet I'm using? I already don't like the bonus acc/macc/subtle blow when attacking the same target for the same reason. Is BST on parole from 2016? Is this pet that dashes away to attack anything that attacks it my handler now?

Snarl was never meant to be used like High Jump. It was put in the game to support pet only play just like 99% of BSTs arsenal not applying to this "new vision".

If SE wants BST to be 50/50 split damage, I think no one cares. I haven't seen one complain about the damage split. The issue is how cumbersome it's being done and stripping the job's prior identity for no reason. Who cares if a BST backlines any more? That pet is not approaching a modern DD in the slightest. If I want to play defensively and my pet is going to be 50% of a DD's damage then let me do it. If I want to melee 1 mob and have my pet melee another, let me do it.

I'm not here to poo-poo on people excited for the update. I am of course excited to try out new not copy-pasta pets and I'll spend day 1 playing with them. But I can already tell BST will need further adjustment. Because it's still mechanically broken and none of the jobs deserve to be left like that. Bolded mechanically before the shitstorm of BST has value. It certainly does.

not based on master's stats like I suggested tho, run wild is not good anyways pet will disappear after 5 mins

5:40 and you can immediately call another pet.

Bst already fills the party role as basically a more supporty dragoon;

Good damage, zero enmity generation.

Bst gets more support, Drg gets more damage.

Its basically just gunna be another monk situation; Its already in a good spot, a few of its weaknesses/issues are gunna get worked out, and will end up FOTM.

If they can fix distance issues when youre fighting with your pet on the mob like beast players want, it will honestly be golden. The Macc on the pet this patch will be huge as well. Subtle blow is also still underrated.

A single bst will always be a great addition to any group. Theres no real reason why anyone should turn one down if someone wants to play it.

These two are nothing alike. That's like me saying, "A Bst is basically another black mage to the group. A black mage does magical damage, a Bst does physical damage."