Current State Of BST: August 2020 Update

Except it's not.... at all. Primal rend does great damage, Mistral axe can do great damage as well.

Hippo was literally used by like three people this week alone in Dynamis Wave 1 and 2.

Slime can be used to hold many enemies.

Cricket can clear Omen monsters super easily.

Bredo can apply MDB and magic burst for huge damage.

Sheep is used pre-pull for massive attack boost in many fights and is a good source of damage if you choose.

Pig is used in tons of fights.

It's like you have no idea what you're talking about and are just complaining BST isnt a copy-pasta dd.

I dont think this one is dumb tbh. Holding many mobs even without much aoe hate can still be very useful for situations where mobs link, like in dynamis. You can aggro and hold mobs on pet untill they are grouped for sleep or you can just take mobs one by one. Its one of the biggest pros of PUP after all. RUN or PLD can probably do it too, maybe even better, but pet doesnt need much support to do it and also master can still do dps when pet is holding stuff.

Pot meet kettle. The person who didnt know bst debuffs dont stack with DD debuffs is accusing people of not knowing what they are talking about.

Yep this for instance I will use my dynamis group as an example. This is one spot we discuss using bst as a "mid-high utility hybrid". Our geo (tankpt) already melees. He loves it. He also plays BST. He will swap to BST in the tank party.

Another note about our setup. BST can take over almost any of those roles (rng/cor/brd/geo/whm) and we will still full clear the content. (Note by whm.. I mean we dont need 3)

current setup:

rng cor cor brd geo whm
rng cor cor brd geo whm
pld run thf rdm geo whm

Most of bsts power isnt in a single axe though. Other axes and WSs are perfectly usable and fine, and not so far behind that youll hate yourself using them.

Do i think bst needs gear support for mythic and empy WS? Yes. Are the WSs bad/unusable? No. Is aymur/farsha unusable garbage? No.

Does the relic need help? Yes, but again, almost every single relic needs help, and hopefully this new "mini expansion" leads to relic weapon support.

I'm hopping out of the which job is better competition lol.

Just about everything I'd like to see fixed in the immediate sense is quality of life and about helping the job feel better to play.

Using PUP as an example mechanically only, it works as a tandem pet/player combo way more than BST. They need to make adjustments as they have for PUP.

• Has comfortable distance on commands but still melees just fine when applicable.
  

• Better control of pet survivability without sacrificing DPS.
  - Repair & Maintenance remove all types of effects, not just Silence, Weight, Slow, Paralysis, Poison, and Blind only.
  - PUP oils give double the Regen.
  - Ability to use defense and auto-regen attachments.
  

• Can immediately resummon in weakened state.
  

• Can swap HP, TP or Enmity values.
  

• Maneuvers have no JA delay to interrupt TP gain, give a ring's worth of attribute and can last up to 5 mins over time.
  

• Master gets Job Point categories.
  

This isn't about is PUP better or BST. But the design of the job is way more comfortable to play as a hybrid melee. It flows well at the core mechanics to say yeah this master and pet works together.

Mighty Guard is ok for the defensive benefits, but for party play you are capping haste elsewhere, same for dancer and Haste Samba (for some jobs). BLU dps with Tizona is certainly better than beastmaster but not as good as some other dps, same for dancer. DNC can multi-step but so can other dps.

My broader point is that if you don't need a particular benefit that's unique to a job for a strat, then if you're min/maxing you'll bring a higher dps job instead. If you don't need Treasure Hunter, you'll bring a samurai instead of a thief. If you don't need extra defense down to cap attack, you'll bring a monk instead of a dancer or beastmaster. This isn't an issue that is unique to BST. What IS unique to BST is that some stuff simply doesn't work right mechanically like pet commands and variable distance, or JAs like Charm which was a core part of the job before has just been left on an island to rot.


We're getting off into the weeds here anyway. S-E still needs to do some work on beastmaster to address aspects of the job. I don't agree with people saying that "everything is fine, actually". We can be useful sometimes, or even be slotted in as a DD when you don't need the unique benefits provided by slug, but there are still design issues with BST. Even if you flat-out boosted BST melee dps to that top tier party play would be like a dragoon with a pet that's a stat stick, only using an axe instead of a lance, and with a better enmity dump. And that still would be a failure. A bunch of pets, but only one or two for parties, pet-focused JAs that are useless for just beating things up, and for ***'s sake I can't even stand on one side of a mob while my pet stands on the other!

In all fairness, charm is kinda making a decent resurgence as an option in content like Odyssey. Though i think they kinda scrapped charm for general use because jug pets are just that much more interesting than being able to charm a random mob player wise.

Edit: Odyssey, not omen. Spent way too much time in 100+ degree temp all day.

Ermah actually saying something worth discussing for once instead of just short insults. (claps)

I would love to see pics on a mob that's not hugely favorable to Primal's damage versus your Decimation damage with Dolichenus. If in general Savage can compete with Mistral even though Axes have higher dmg and delay then yes in my opinion it can be adjusted.

I care about this why? I said you can't use BST in Dynamis groups when? lol You're sticking words in my mouth and arguing with yourself. I'm going to have to start charging you for this cathartic therapy you seem to be having about BST usefuless.

Uhhh... this was doable before slime... Have you never used Tulfaire aka Aegisbird? And again when did I say it couldn't?

So can BLU, so can RDM Aeolian Edge. So can SMN Apogee Thunderspark, etc etc. 1. Who cares? 2. When did I say cricket wasn't useful?

They definitely can support others and water MB. When did I say they couldn't?

Blah blah sheep blah blah raaz I'm tired of quoting the same point of what universe on you in.

I'm not even going to argue something I didn't say lol. You need a cookie or a hug or something.

If they could mix BST and PUP mechanically together both would be improved greatly. The fact PUP is the only pet job where the pet is required to gain tp to weaponskill and you cannot comfortably swap to a pet weaponskill set without huge sacrifices sucks pretty bad(you cannot really choose what weaponskill it does 100%). Not to mention how the STP/Speedloader attachments work with other players weaponskilling makes it even worse. Many other things wrong with the Auto lol

Heaven forbid you have a scholar in a party with a pup tank. Just /mute the scholar at the start. Save yourself the headache.

Just to add my $0.02 (adjusted for inflation):

Having Killer Instinct tied to the pet was a pretty stupid idea simply due to pet timers. It would be great if they (1) removed the KI pet requirement (2) removed the NM penalty for circles and killer effects.

Yes, this would make DRKs better at omen bosses, but I don't see that as the end of the world. It would also help out PLDs a bit more for undead bosses like Vinipata.

They should revisit BST's relic sets. Compared to PUP and SMN, there's not much pet stuff on them. Charm, haste, pdt, evasion and a sprinkle of double attack and store tp. With zero bonuses to acc/atk/macc/mab like SMN and PUP have. :/

I agree. They each would benefit greatly from each others mechanical strengths.

I think you can already get bst pet to do roughly similar damage to smn pet, minus one hour zergs. Especially with actual buff support for said pet. Leads beast to have similar issues to smn; Yeah, your pet can do good damage, but the cost to benefit is not skewed in its favor if youre just looking at a pure damage standpoint.

Smn gets around this with general safety. If the pet dies, who cares. Bst can do similar damage, but needs to be on the mob as well. And if the bst is on the mob.... youre not getting pet buffs, as the master has better damage anyway.

Id say this is more an issue with pet jobs as a general rule than bst specifically. I still would like to flat out remove pet specific buffs and let master buffs transfer to the pet. Drg gets this for their wyvern, but their wyvern is literal trash and thats never been updated.

i mean... this is basically what everyone has been saying...
ANd that would be a MASSIVE buff to bst. So i guess you agree that bst needs a major improvement?

You gotta be careful with that one. They have no idea what they want. They think bst is fine and just because other jobs can do everything bst does but better is no reason to think bst is bad. NEVER COMPARE JOBS. They probably solo's virava and think that is a big deal or something.

Yeah primal is great... sometimes, unless you compare it to just spamming decimation on it.

there isnt much 6 man content that wouldnt be greatly improved by swapping out that bst for something else. That is the issue.

No, it hasnt been what anyone was saying.

No, this wouldnt be a buff, as it wouldnt be the only change. It would be a massive undertaking and reworking of numerous jobs, both pet jobs and non pet jobs, and general underlying systems. In short, it will pretty much never happen, and if it were to, would be accompanied by nerfs to pet jobs in general to allow for the added versatility.

Saying "This change would make group setups easier and more streamlined" is not the same as saying "this is necessary because the job is bad"

One is magic based... one is physical based....

Both have different skillchain properties

Both have very different uses

Why are you comparing the two? You wouldnt just be spamming primal/cloud just to spam them. Entirely different setup, entirely different use, entirely different purpose.

Its like comparing sanguine to savage, or leaden/trueflight to last stand/coronach

MG is 15 haste, HM is 16, haste 1 is 15. So that's capped haste with 1 March. Without MG you need haste 2 or another song to cap.

I think most other job has additional benefit useful enough to justify the spot. The additional benefit of BST is pretty much just strong fusion WS and def down. Maybe cleaving not you work really hard to make it work.

Do these arguments weigh out differently based on the content?

I feel that ddyna gains a big favor with BST. We need to make sure we justify our opinions in which the environment we experience them.

My age is catching up to me. Didnt charm bind NMs at one point? Was just trying to think if other jobs Ja's and the roles they play in end game content.
Charm <t> ...
Party gets a chuckle.
Gauge <t> ...
Someone asks, "how big?"
Tame <t>
Jesus your jas are useless. :/

yup, 100% true. One random update a few years ago, SE just decided to make Tame unusable if you already have a jug pet or charmed pet. So, I know firsthand what you're describing with those JAs and it was awesome....but NOT ANYMORE. :(

I would definitely bring a bst to wave 3 dyna if I could put them in the tank pt, mainly if for some reason you were doing it melee style. Something like tank tank healer smn bst geo maybe. Mainly due to geo debuffs being heavily nerfed. Although, I stopped focusing on using debuffs for the most part and instead bog a buff bubble at a camp and just use that camp til bog wears, don't seem to have a hard time capping stats this way with either melee or magic method. Still, I find having at least one bst can be beneficial (and the hp down is a lot of dmg too), I'd probably even take them over a second geo, but I wouldn't take them over a smn and I wouldn't put them in the main dps party unless for some reason they just happened to be the most qualified member for that slot at the time.

Bst has an identity crisis.

Some arguments here insist it become a dd like every other dd out there.

Some want the identity it used to have to come back.

I sympathize more with the latter.

I didn't play WoW, but I heard one of the major things that brought it down lower was making all the jobs so homogeneous.

I worry that is what has been happening to Beastmaster over the years. that is my main complaint. SE keeps having trouble balancing it and keeps taking away its identity without discovering its identity.

I think the same thing is happening now. As outcast as Beastmaster was early in the game (not party friendly at all) its niche of charming pets was VERY fun and very defining of its identity as a job.

It grew into a stable role in pet-centered styles with summoner, and then adding puppetmaster, corsair and geomancer to that approach.

Adding abilities to make it more valuable to a party or alliance is good. However, as has been argued over and over here, other jobs are almost always more valuable in support roles or damage dealing roles.

I DO very much like the recent updates of tandem strike and tandem blow, and the new pets that were added. However, I agree it does not 'FIX' the job. because the thing that needs 'FIXING' is 'What is its identity?' I think this problem exists because SE keeps taking its identity away, instead of fulfilling it.

It sounds like SE is answering in a lazy way: "Its a front-line, damage dealer".

Well there are tons of those, and bst doesn't currently bring much to that identity. Its watered-down compared to what it was. Its making it more homogenized. I think the Killer Instinct mechanic is actually a wonderful mechanic. (BST should totally have been on the Founder's set!!) Killer Instinct is unfortunately subdued in alot of end game content. Most end-game does not include viable targets.... its often demons, arcana, undead, beastment or uncategorized. very similiar to how charm was nerfed. (in fact there is at least one content where mobs match an ecosystem (aquan, avian, beast, etc) but are NOT actually included. meaning killer effects do NOT work at all. Also killer effects have been stupidly nerfed on alot of nm's. We really should be able to put all the gear/food/etc into maxing Killer effects and let the NM be intimidated 50% of the time.

I think that it is a poor direction to make it just another dd.

I don't really think bst should swap pets rapidly like summoner in order to add more buffs. Bst has a huge number of pets in the arsenal with various traits and abilities. However, the appropriate trade-off is that you are only using 1 pet at a time with its collection of the powerful traits and abilities.

Its hard to turn down more damage, but I worry that its just a stagnant direction making bst a borind dd. At the same time, the argument about dolichenus 120% damage boost is spot on.. that it means the ws itself is not designed right. So, some of the normal power creep that has hit other jobs is appropriate to hit bst also.

Buff Fencer
Buff Axe WS's for BST (CS, PR, MA)
Remove Call Beast Timer (Reduce at minimum)

Simple Post. Sums up what the jobs next buffs should potentially be.

oh yeah,

hasn't anyone been seriously trying out bst/drg? I find it rather enjoyable for fencer build.
the wsd damage is a nice bonus, and fencer is also quite noticeable.

I suppose we really need to parse some comparisons though.

As a new BST (just started getting semi-serious in the past month), the most striking negative aspect to me as a total newcomer is the huge inventory strain of jugs. I kinda dig the aspect that Xilkk mentions, having a large arsenal of pets with useful niches. I honestly didn't realize how much interesting stuff you could do with pets (debuffs, certain types of damage, buffs, etc.), and I think a lot of non-BSTs are likely in the same boat - though once I got the hang of it, the most enjoyable part of the job is employing the right pet for the particular task. But holy crap, I have to have a mule hold all the damn jugs since there are so many niche uses.

They really, really, really need to make the jugs learnable like spells. Maybe one universal jug to call any learned pets. And make pet food stack to 99.

Truth. It's getting pretty ridiculous at this point. They've recognized this is an issue for all consumable jobs but BST. I don't get it. Beast Affinity needs to go. Why do we need pets that vary in level unless we use this? Why do we need NQ/HQ jugs any more? It was a weird system to begin with that I guess they wanted to emulate charming wild mobs. It's time to change for sure.



I'd be fine with BST not having a low cooldown timer if it was easier to maintain the pet. Bestial Loyalty until lately has been the use on HQ pet and Call Beast more of the oh s*** button. They talk about 50/50 but seriously taking a pet to any mob that remotely has annoying debuffs or quick spamming AoE, that pet is a brick or toast. Reward only removes a handful of stuff with armor and that's it.

We have no protection from Doom, Defense/Magic Defense Down, HP Down, Impact, etc. A minor gripe given current content but it also bothers me our jug pets despawn if you zone but DRG, SMN, and PUP pets will "save" and respawn.