#TheSocialDilemma

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#TheSocialDilemma
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2020-10-29 10:24:17  
Asura.Saevel said: »
RadialArcana said: »
The internet was supposed to bring us all together, to spread knowledge. Social media has pushed us to bee more aggressive to others, more tribal, more angry, have more mental health issues and more stupid than ever as a society.

Humans are tribal by nature and we form tribes based on shared attributes, it's in our DNA. Previously our "tribe" was the village / town we grew up in, our classmates in school, our coworkers or professional colleagues. We defined our individual existences by these connections, our values, beliefs and pretty much everything of our day to day lives. Now lets throw in a system that lets people "connect" with thousands of completely artificial facsimiles of "people" and see how that screws with everyone's reality.

People online are fake, it's that simple. About the only way to make online connections "real" is for full telepresence, meaning cameras for all group communications. It's still a facsimile but at least being able to see each other's faces lends some weight to forming real connection.
I mean, I think this game and community are a true counter-example to your latter argument. I have long-standing relationships forged on this game circa 2005 that are still functional friendships.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-10-29 10:32:58  
You know it's bad when this website is the extent of social media for some (like me).

Which, honestly, is much better than Facebook and Twitter imo.
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 Pandemonium.Zeto
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By Pandemonium.Zeto 2020-10-29 10:43:18  
Asura.Saevel said: »
RadialArcana said: »
The internet was supposed to bring us all together, to spread knowledge. Social media has pushed us to bee more aggressive to others, more tribal, more angry, have more mental health issues and more stupid than ever as a society.

Humans are tribal by nature and we form tribes based on shared attributes, it's in our DNA. Previously our "tribe" was the village / town we grew up in, our classmates in school, our coworkers or professional colleagues. We defined our individual existences by these connections, our values, beliefs and pretty much everything of our day to day lives.
It's also you couldn't pick your 'tribe' but in the online world you can. Which means you can make sure your tribe is an echo chamber for you. While if you're limited to just real life, you won't always agree on ***and you can't just be BLOCK you're done. We're still both gonna go to the pool hall after work on Fridays because we both like to shoot 9ball or whatever our hobby is. And since we have to deal with each other when we're playing 9ball we have an incentive to find a way to get along. Online there's a thousand other people I could get along with so there's just no incentive for us to get along despite our differences.
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By Shichishito 2020-10-29 11:02:58  
i always viewed ffxiah as anti social media.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-10-29 11:44:30  
technically any site that has multi-user communication is "social media" Youtube? yep. Any forum? yep. MMO? yep.

(but yes, is funny, anti-social people "socializing" etc)
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 Asura.Tawhoya
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By Asura.Tawhoya 2020-10-29 12:33:38  
I think social media is fine... I mean it seems like it would be inevitable with the amount of vanity and narcissism in the world. People will always find a way to let others know about them. And so many of these people are willing to pay any price for other's approval the tech industry (like any other) goes where the money is to satiate the customer's desires.

Just like FFXI, however, the developers might have one thing in mind while the consumers will find numerous other ways to use it. Good, bad, ugly I don't see it going away anytime soon. The vanity of the wealthy seems to always win.
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 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2020-10-29 15:13:06  
I personally blame the unfettered usage of statistics in unscrupulous ways. Social media in of itself isn't so bad, it's merely a tool for people to connect and communicate. However the business model of harvesting data and utilizing that data to influence consumers, inadvertently augmenting culture in unethical and irresponsible ways, is insidious. This is happening in most forms of business, and is unethical in all contexts if you ask me, difference being that social media has permeated culture overall and has a more direct delivery method, causing a larger magnitude of effect.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-10-29 20:00:05  
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
I personally blame the unfettered usage of statistics in unscrupulous ways. Social media in of itself isn't so bad, it's merely a tool for people to connect and communicate. However the business model of harvesting data and utilizing that data to influence consumers, inadvertently augmenting culture in unethical and irresponsible ways, is insidious. This is happening in most forms of business, and is unethical in all contexts if you ask me, difference being that social media has permeated culture overall and has a more direct delivery method, causing a larger magnitude of effect.

Certain statistical methods essentially refine themselves as data input increases, so the effectiveness is just going to increase. That being said, one of the biggest self-imposed hurdles for "big data" companies is their desire to artificially influence what gets delivered according to whatever philosophical ends they're pursuing, which just turns off potential customers and encourages new regulations. Big data's #1 enemy is even bigger egos.
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 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2020-10-29 20:25:52  
Yeah, I don't doubt it's just going to get worse. I can't honestly say what that will look like however. It's already pretty bad and has shackled a lot of the factors that could potentially control it.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2020-10-29 20:49:16  
https://www.siliconera.com/final-fantasy-xiv-is-getting-its-own-ssd-with-an-original-design-on-december-2-2020/

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By Jetackuu 2020-10-29 20:59:03  
I mean they could have gotten a better company to make it, or at least just sell a shell and let you put a good drive in it.
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 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-10-29 21:42:59  
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Yeah, I don't doubt it's just going to get worse. I can't honestly say what that will look like however. It's already pretty bad and has shackled a lot of the factors that could potentially control it.
First step to curtailing it is that the public be aware that there is a systemic problem. Most (99.9999999999999999999999999999%) of social media users aren't even aware of the depth of the manipulation engine that they are up against. Even the scant percentage that is aware of it, still find themselves sucked into the addiction. It's the biggest existential crisis man kind has ever faced, and we built our own prison.
 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-10-30 13:19:17  
Also.... Didn't they learn their lesson with "PS2 limitations"?
=>•<=

Good derailment though.
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By RadialArcana 2020-10-30 13:57:43  
that ssd sucks, collectors will buy it though
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2020-10-30 15:22:43  
yippie, just what I always wanted. To pay extra for an underwhelming SSD stamped with an 18 year-old game that I can't even show off because its inside my tower.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2020-11-01 09:50:58  
Use this instead.

970 Evo Plus 1TB
 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-11-02 00:45:17  
Aaaaaaaand back on topic, watching an old episode of Futurama atm, the iPhone episode, and damn they nailed it, if I had to guess at least 10 years ago.....

Edit: as a side note, the "shut up and take my money" line y'all like to abuse, originated from that very episode, ever wonder where your memes came from?

Edit2: "Attack of the killer app" 7/1/2010
 Asura.Aeonova
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By Asura.Aeonova 2020-11-02 02:37:08  
Asura.Eiryl said: »
We are so overdue for "the next thing"

The next thing did come along. It was Tiktok. (Oh, and the next generation has come along as well). The US government couldn't readily spy/gather information through it so they ***their pants about it. It wasn't made by a company with ties to US, Canada, UK, Australia, or New Zealand so they were not forthcoming with unlimited backdoor access so all of a sudden it was "China is using it to spy" when in reality, while that could be true, what they were more mad at is "China is spying on people we want to gather information on". The US threw a mighty ***-fit over it and look how quickly that situation folded. Now the US can snoop in on an entire new generation that is plugged in.



The part at 3:01 in particular of this video:
YouTube Video Placeholder


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 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-11-02 03:18:25  
Asura.Aeonova said: »
I've been asking many people lately if they have read 1984, surprisingly only ran across like 2 who have, I was required to read it in high school, wtf people, 2020 is '84!!
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 Ragnarok.Nightmarelord
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By Ragnarok.Nightmarelord 2020-11-02 03:32:34  
tiktok was challenged because of those who created arent the "master race."
the world is currently what it is because a bunch of broken racist systems / people are being challenged again.

im sure some of you have seen the trumpers chasing the biden bus.

C'mon dawg. rly?
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By RadialArcana 2020-11-02 03:35:30  
China uses its spying network to blackmail or manipulate people to work for them or give them trade secrets, they target people in the universities and industry most often. Regular people have nothing to worry about from them really. We should be less worried about this and more worried about them using finance to undermine out nations instead.

The "friendly" intelligence agencies are spying on everyone, and if they can't due to laws they get their friends from ally nations to do it for them. MI6 are notoriously bad for doing this to help US intelligence agencies get around laws that stop them spying on nationals.

As you said, honestly nobody cares about being spied on anymore (snowden destroyed his life for nothing) because there are entire industries setup to make money doing it. Even smart and informed people are buying these things from amazon and sticking them in their homes.

There are so many companies logging every single thing you do every day now, if you have a smart phone you're being tracked everywhere you go (if you go out of your house and goto the store, they can see the exact route you take if they wanted to), if you use the internet at all all your searches and every site you goto is logged. Many game companies log everything you say and parse them too, I doubt Square does but blizzard / activision surely does.

We aren't headed to an Orwellian future, we are already there and nobody cares.
 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-11-02 03:41:34  
God damn it doesn't take any of you long to start sucking on the kool aid does it....

Don't get this thread locked derailing it into horse ***about xenophobia or international politics. These algorithms do not see borders, they just show you what you are already ready to see.

*** sheep....
 Ragnarok.Nightmarelord
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By Ragnarok.Nightmarelord 2020-11-02 03:43:40  
lol. they're logging what i do huh?
logging how many mobs i slap up in ffxi too?
>_< must be boring.
 Asura.Aeonova
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By Asura.Aeonova 2020-11-02 04:44:06  
Just to point out: I didn't say any race; nor had it crossed my mind. I mentioned 5 nations - English-speaking nations that are on very buddy-buddy terms with each other in their affairs. Think less race and more language; even though the five nations I listed are a coalition together in so much that they may as well be the same country. US, UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

Ragnarok.Nightmarelord said: »
lol. they're logging what i do huh?
logging how many mobs i slap up in ffxi too?
>_< must be boring.

Yes. Your entire chat log is scooped up via data harvesting. No one is sitting there reading it all unless you have typed out something their algorithm has flagged has caught their attention. Then someone might have to manually watch you.

It is the high tech version of how, not too long ago in the grand scale of things, the US government would put you on a watch list if you checked certain books out from a library that were on a list.

These days, there isn't much use for a library no-no list. Now-a-days, every bit of data that travels through "the series of tubes" is checked up against a list of no-no terms. For example, if you type out that you are going to shoot up a place in a random drunken Facebook post (even kidding or as an example) then yeah. Someone (NSA/FBI in the US) is going to have to manually review. What did you think they did if not this exact thing?



Do you think it is a made up thing that once a year you can speak with a moogle that can tell you, to the exact number, the total number of lines of chat you have ever spoken (in addition to how many alliances/parties joined, enemies defeated, times KO'd) in an 18 year old game?

Leviathan.Draugo said: »
Don't get this thread locked derailing it into horse ***



This thread is gonna get itself locked due to the basic nature of what the topic encompasses. The staff on this site got tired of policing politics and religion rabbit-holes so yeah. You start a thread about "#thesocialdilemma" and that is just asking for a derail.
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By RadialArcana 2020-11-02 04:57:38  
There was a story years 8-10 years ago in the press about them having deals with major computer game companies that have online chat functionality (it was about activision then but they do it with all). The story then was that middle eastern terrorists who were being logged in all forms of other communication while trying to talk to operatives in western nations were making WoW accounts to talk and plan things there and the intelligence agencies could not see it.

Now they can, and it's not just aimed at terrorists now. Of course, if you're a nobody then you have little to worry about. However, if you ever become a somebody (and that's not as difficult as you think it is) they have all those tens of years of massive data there for them to sift through and use against you (or control you).

They even have it with voice chat now, Sony released a statement a couple of months ago they were going to parse all voice chat etc (for users safety)

With the current trend to censor everyone for their own safety the intel agencies have never had so much power and such an easy way to explain it all away.
 Asura.Aeonova
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By Asura.Aeonova 2020-11-02 05:06:35  
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By RadialArcana 2020-11-02 05:58:55  
If anything this kind of stuff could about to get a whole lot worse.

One administration is held accountable and it being near impossible to do anything underhanded at all, with the almost entire journalist class going over every minute detail of everything it does with whistle-blowers around every corner. Even typos being noted and reported on.

The other, won't be held to anything like the same standards and any wrong doing will most likely be ignored or wiped under the carpet with minimal reporting (and don't even pretend it won't happen this way).
 
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2020-11-02 08:59:37  
Ragnarok.Nightmarelord said: »
tiktok was challenged because of those who created arent the "master race." ...
Tiktok was "challenged" because its users pranked, and embarrassed, Trump.

And think how horrid it might be if China knew how many American teens can't dance and posted the vids anyway. That's real blackmail material right there.
 Ragnarok.Nightmarelord
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By Ragnarok.Nightmarelord 2020-11-02 10:23:44  
Why does trump challenge anything again? bc its not white.
when he was asked about the kkk dude, he acts like he doesnt know WHAT the guy has "okay'd" and just chooses to ignore that why?

You see it.