What's Good About FFXI.

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What's good about FFXI.
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 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-11-21 14:00:03  
Not exclusively a FFXI thing, nor a big deal, but something I appreciate is how 0 HP isn't "death", but rather getting KO'ed. While it's partially because I don't like the finality of the concept, it also makes a lot more sense from both a gameplay and narrative point of view.

Gameplay-wise, it makes more sense that you can be revived from being only knocked out. It makes more sense that your character's body wakes up and continues adventuring. Just feels stupid in games where you can literally walk past your decomposing corpse. Like, what; did you make thousands of clones of yourself?

Narrative-wise, it makes more sense that people can't just live forever with magic. A character dies and that's it. No need to have some stupid explanation about how the Masamune prevents the magic of Phoenix Down from bringing you back from the dead. If you're KO'ed, you can come back; if you die, you can't. Easy.
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By Mattelot 2021-11-22 07:34:11  
Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
Masamune prevents the magic of Phoenix Down from bringing you back from the dead

How long have you been sitting on this information?
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By RadialArcana 2021-11-22 09:11:26  
Watching nu blizzard developers castrate wow and seeing what ex XI developers have been doing with 14 has made me thankful XIV exists for Square Enix.

Because this kind of modernization BS to appeal to mainstream players is all pushed into that and XI is allowed to remain what it is, and we can continue to get a game that is still made to appeal to the niche of actual RPG players instead of chasing bigger numbers from the lowest common denominator. Ff14 is even no longer what it initially was with ARR, it's continually under the eye of sauron and being nerfed and pushed into appealing to a wider and wider group of casual plebs to inflate the numbers higher.

I guarantee, if XIV had not been made SE would of fully modernized XI and it basically would be XIV at this point anyway.

Everything has to appeal to the everyone now, I'm getting real tired of it. Everything from star wars, lotr, star trek, marvel, ff.. on and on all have to appeal the same meatheads that make up the biggest share of potential low effort, crybaby consumers.
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 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-11-22 09:20:29  
RadialArcana said: »
I guarantee, if XIV had not been made SE would of fully modernized XI and it basically would be XIV at this point anyway.
I don't know if FFXI has the capacity to be morphed into a clone of WoW. I think the engine the game runs on is too focused for that to happen.

That said, if XIV didn't exist, XI likely would have received a total overhaul by now and they might have gone in that direction. I'm glad XIV exists so XI can continue accommodating its niche audience.

Mattelot said: »
How long have you been sitting on this information?
I've actually never beaten VII. I think I heard that from one of those Newgrounds animations way back in the day. Regardless, it's still a better explanation than "We just didn't think of using Phoenix Down" lol
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By llAKs0nll 2021-11-22 09:48:05  
RadialArcana said: »
Things I think are good about FFXI
18. I like the customization via windower addons, the limitaitons of the UI was the mother of invention here and so we have all these things that a game with a more modern UI would never have.

The existence of Windower is the most amazing atypical form of “Cheating” in all of gaming. I cannot think of any other game ever created in the History of Video Games where an actual literal method of cheating was beneficial to the game itself. Sure there are Mods in other games but nothing on par w/ Windower for FFXI.

Knowing such only makes me wonder if JP ever actually used such like ourselves or was it always just an NA Exclusive in FFXI.

RadialArcana said: »
16. I like the crafting system, not only is it very difficult to cap out but it's very useful and linked to the economy. It also gives avenues of long progression if you choose to follow them. Sub-crafts, sheilds, knowledge of how to make profits etc
The only instance, beyond obvious Graphics on New Hardware improvement, where FFXIV is infinitely superior to FFXI

Crafting in 14 is an absolute blast w/ a system that vastly improved upon 11. Everything else in 11 is just ultimately better outside of 14 being more Casual. Which I appreciate nowadays. I don’t have the same level of commitment to play FFXI like I used to. I’m playing Solo on my own time frame. Not around scheduled LS Events.
 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-11-22 10:16:51  
llAKs0nll said: »
outside of 14 being more Casual. Which I appreciate nowadays. I don’t have the same level of commitment to play FFXI like I used to. I’m playing Solo on my own time frame. Not around scheduled LS Events.
I dunno. I've said this before, but XI is only as hardcore as you want it to be. Endgame content only begets other endgame content. I find it extremely easy (in retail, at least) to just log in for 15-30 minutes when I have some free time, and log out whenever.

Most of the game is exceptionally soloable now. There's plenty to do between scheduled runs of Dynamis-D or whatever.
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By llAKs0nll 2021-11-22 10:25:58  
Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
Most of the game is exceptionally soloable now. There's plenty to do between scheduled runs of Dynamis-D or whatever.
Played from 2002 — 2016 and only recently returned. Was always in an active EGLS doing LS Events since at least 2003 and since returning now realize that ain’t no way I want to return to such.

I could find another EGLS maybe hopping servers to one w/ more ppl online but do I seriously even want to. I just want to do my own thing nowadays & uplift myself via my own hands & random other ppl not a whole EGLS revolving around schedules.

I need freedom over commitment. So I see why FFXIV is the way it is & why it was created to be as such.
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By RadialArcana 2021-11-22 10:32:52  
Quote:
Crafting in 14 is an absolute blast w/ a system that vastly improved upon 11. Everything else in 11 is just ultimately better outside of 14 being more Casual. Which I appreciate nowadays. I don’t have the same level of commitment to play FFXI like I used to. I’m playing Solo on my own time frame. Not around scheduled LS Events.


It's better implemented from a gameplay perspective, but near pointless because of it.
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By llAKs0nll 2021-11-22 10:46:17  
RadialArcana said: »
Quote:
Crafting in 14 is an absolute blast w/ a system that vastly improved upon 11. Everything else in 11 is just ultimately better outside of 14 being more Casual. Which I appreciate nowadays. I don’t have the same level of commitment to play FFXI like I used to. I’m playing Solo on my own time frame. Not around scheduled LS Events.


It's better implemented from a gameplay perspective, but near pointless because of it.
If 14 had 11 combat system w/ Macro / JA / 2 Hours / Gear swaps it would literally be FF Perfection. Crafting alone ain’t holding my attention.
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By llAKs0nll 2021-11-22 12:41:54  
I just want to add that the Reason that FFXI is so EPIC in the 1st place is due to fact that SE ported over an exclusive CONSOLE Legendary franchise perfectly to PC. Other than the concept of other RL players controlling individual characters rather yourself controlling your whole Party.

FFXI is a perfect port of FF to PC and the MMO genre.
While FFXIV plays absolutely nothing like FF at all whatsoever.
That’s why I always give Rave Reviews about FFXI even when I haven’t touched the game in 5 years. Greatest Game ever made IMO is FFXI. Hands down.
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 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-11-22 13:04:52  
llAKs0nll said: »
FFXI is a perfect port of FF to PC and the MMO genre.
While FFXIV plays absolutely nothing like FF at all whatsoever.
I've watched a few videos from the FF Union on YouTube as they discuss the evolution of various jobs and other staples of the series. It's astounding how much XIV abandons the fundamental details of each job in order to make them fit within the WoW-established MMO trinity.
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 Asura.Meliorah
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By Asura.Meliorah 2021-11-22 13:18:19  
Might wanna crack the window a little, I think all the copium fumes in this thread are causing some pretty serious brain damage.
 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2021-11-22 13:40:41  
Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
llAKs0nll said: »
FFXI is a perfect port of FF to PC and the MMO genre.
While FFXIV plays absolutely nothing like FF at all whatsoever.
I've watched a few videos from the FF Union on YouTube as they discuss the evolution of various jobs and other staples of the series. It's astounding how much XIV abandons the fundamental details of each job in order to make them fit within the WoW-established MMO trinity.
They added SAM, they added many abilities that were in FFXI (or previous entries in general), I was like "sweet, we may get a taste of a proper job". N O P E. Even the newly added skills are just "more damage", because as you said the game is one dimensional. The defensive skills are even laughable (they were even more so when released).

That being said, I think FFXIV shouldn't be taken that seriously. The story in Shadowbringers is decent at least, but it should be treated as what it is, a decent MMO to spend an afternoon on. No more, no less.
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By Mattelot 2021-11-22 13:45:05  
RadialArcana said: »
Because this kind of modernization BS to appeal to mainstream players is all pushed into that and XI is allowed to remain what it is

Thank God!

We live in the era of the entitled, lazy gamer. Kids who grew up eating tide pods want games where they can get free "top end" gear for pretty much just logging in and if they can't, "PLEASE FIX!!"

WoW used to be a pretty good game. Now, it's a steaming pile of ***. I try it every year and within a few days, I'm bored to death and unsub.

The homogenization in both WoW and XIV keep things simple but you have no real sense of uniqueness or identity. When I play a job in XI, I feel like I'm playing that job. In XIV, it just feels like another job with different aesthetics.
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By llAKs0nll 2021-11-22 13:46:35  
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
llAKs0nll said: »
FFXI is a perfect port of FF to PC and the MMO genre.
While FFXIV plays absolutely nothing like FF at all whatsoever.
I've watched a few videos from the FF Union on YouTube as they discuss the evolution of various jobs and other staples of the series. It's astounding how much XIV abandons the fundamental details of each job in order to make them fit within the WoW-established MMO trinity.
They added SAM, they added many abilities that were in FFXI (or previous entries in general), I was like "sweet, we may get a taste of a proper job". N O P E. Even the newly added skills are just "more damage", because as you said the game is one dimensional. The defensive skills are even laughable (they were even more so when released).

That being said, I think FFXIV shouldn't be taken that seriously. The story in Shadowbringers is decent at least, but it should be treated as what it is, a decent MMO to spend an afternoon on. No more, no less.

I seen a recent YouTube upload discussing FFXIV and SMN. Mind you I don’t even play SMN in FFXI yet I am very familiar w/ the Job. So when 14 player told me that they finally got Avatars after like 10 years of Elements only to hear Avatars are only Timers to do Attacks & nothing more, I was disgusted tbh.

In 14 you cannot roam Maps w/ an Avatar out. You just hit a Timer. Avatar appears > does an Attack > Vanishes.

FFFXIV is so watered down it’s incredibly sad IMO.
That’s not even Jobs that do play in 11 like RDM and NIN which I’m sure are just as awful.
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By Mattelot 2021-11-22 13:49:44  
llAKs0nll said: »
In 14 you cannot roam Maps w/ an Avatar out. You just hit a Timer. Avatar appears > does an Attack > Vanishes.

Unless something changed extremely recently, that's not completely accurate. You can summon Ifrit, Garuda or Titan to follow you around. Bahamut and Phoenix are timers.
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By llAKs0nll 2021-11-22 13:51:49  
Mattelot said: »
llAKs0nll said: »
In 14 you cannot roam Maps w/ an Avatar out. You just hit a Timer. Avatar appears > does an Attack > Vanishes.

Unless something changed extremely recently, that's not completely accurate. You can summon Ifrit, Garuda or Titan to follow you around. Bahamut and Phoenix are timers.
My mistake then. Only going by info given. I got to Lv40 in FFXIV and never played again so my actual knowledge is limited to what I am told from other players.
 Asura.Cordyfox
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By Asura.Cordyfox 2021-11-22 13:54:34  
RadialArcana said: »
23. I like that the game will not be replacing pictures of mithra with bowls of fruit or pandering to modern day SJW issues, the developers just want to make content and not push an agenda.
I was with you right up until the very end. You just had to ESS JAY DUBYOOS all over your post, huh.
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By Mattelot 2021-11-22 13:56:22  
He's not wrong. All these fake "I'm offended" crap just to get attention and making it so we cannot have nice things has gone beyond idiotic.
 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-11-22 13:56:48  
Mattelot said: »
Unless something changed extremely recently, that's not completely accurate. You can summon Ifrit, Garuda or Titan to follow you around. Bahamut and Phoenix are timers.
Naw, you summon little dolls that represent that summon. You get like 3 versions of Carbuncle, plus like 3 others. Even Ifrit is somehow condensed smaller than Carby lol

Though I think they're finally changing that in the upcoming expansion because it's been a huge complaint within the community for a long time.

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By RadialArcana 2021-11-22 14:00:48  
Asura.Cordyfox said: »
RadialArcana said: »
23. I like that the game will not be replacing pictures of mithra with bowls of fruit or pandering to modern day SJW issues, the developers just want to make content and not push an agenda.
I was with you right up until the very end. You just had to ESS JAY DUBYOOS all over your post, huh.

It's ok to ignore the one that does not bother you.
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By Mattelot 2021-11-22 14:02:17  
Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
Naw, you summon little dolls that represent that summon. You get like 3 versions of Carbuncle, plus like 3 others. Even Ifrit is somehow condensed smaller than Carby lol

Though I think they're finally changing that in Shadowbringers because it's been a huge complaint within the community for a long time.

I was a level 70 smn (Didn't play in Shadowbringers). Titan, Ifrit and Garuda are bigger (a little) than Carbuncle. Yes, they are still smaller versions of the real avatars. I think what may make some think Carbuncle is bigger is from a screenshot where his tail is sticking straight up.

EDIT: Increasing their size could get annoying to others if they make them too big considering the smaller spaces you play in that game.
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By llAKs0nll 2021-11-22 14:04:34  
Mattelot said: »
Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
Naw, you summon little dolls that represent that summon. You get like 3 versions of Carbuncle, plus like 3 others. Even Ifrit is somehow condensed smaller than Carby lol

Though I think they're finally changing that in Shadowbringers because it's been a huge complaint within the community for a long time.

I was a level 70 smn (Didn't play in Shadowbringers). Titan, Ifrit and Garuda are bigger (a little) than Carbuncle. Yes, they are still smaller versions of the real avatars. I think what may make some think Carbuncle is bigger is from a screenshot where his tail is sticking straight up.
So the version Update w/ actual Avatars has NOT arrived yet in FFXIV? Both of y’all just going by info read from SE and haven’t actually seen Avatars yet?
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By Mattelot 2021-11-22 14:05:57  
llAKs0nll said: »
So the version Update w/ actual Avatars has NOT arrived yet in FFXIV? Both of y’all just going by info read from SE and haven’t actually seen Avatars yet?

If you're talking about increasing the size, no, it's not out. I know how big they currently are.
 Asura.Aeonova
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By Asura.Aeonova 2021-11-22 14:52:00  
Don't we have those too though, kind of?

 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-11-22 15:19:43  
Yeah, but that's what you'd get in XIV as your all-powerful summon. They use the dolls in XI when the avatar is weakened or shrinks itself to commune with you. If Alexander and Odin were summonable gods in XIV, that's how they would appear. But even funnier, Summoner is pretty overpowered in XIV, so those little dinks are dishing out more damage than the Black Mage's full-screen explosions lol

In fact, I think the representations we get of Alexander and Odin are already dumbed-down versions of their true selves. Isn't Alexander supposed to be the size of a city?
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 Bahamut.Belkin
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By Bahamut.Belkin 2021-11-22 15:20:49  
FFXI has ruined any other modern MMO for me. I've got friends that play both WoW and FFXIV on a frequent basis, so I've put in honest attempts at both of them. I just got so tired of fetching the bagels. What I mean by fetching the bagels is "go kill 5 wolves for wolf hides", bring the hides back, get some EXP and gold, copy and paste with different mobs a billion more times. I peeped New World gameplay video after it was released and saw the sidebar littered with "obtain 5 bagels" type quests, sighed, and X'd out.

FFXI was the first MMO I ever played and progressing in terms of level and currency was not directly related to quests (save a few specific instances like maybe doing quests that gave you an expensive scroll (teleport holla/dem/mea/warp2/drain quests).

They just dropped you in and told you to go figure it out. It really felt like that wild west out there and cultivated a rather unique gaming experience compared to any MMO today. Things were hard, probably harder than they needed to be, which made succeeding all the more fulfilling. You would wade thru endless bad parties, but finally come across that one party that everything clicked with SC's and MB's and somebody had dispel sweet christ. There is a RNG with sidewinder?! Mother of god.

Another thing I think is unappreciated is how things out in the world are surprisingly mundane, especially in the beginning. The weapon skills are NOT flashy. The animations aren't kick-flip spins. The enemies are just rabbits and bees. And then FFXI did a really nice job of very steadily building up to the cool stuff. Even the first wave of good WS's like Penta Thrust, Rampage, and Guillotine weren't excessively flashy, but when you did them, you were like "ooooh yeah, now we are clappin' cheeks."

Along the same vein, I must've been level 40 or something and somebody told me about a huge dragon that spawned once a day at the top of Boyadha Tree and I was like "you are so full of ***, nothing like that exists." Then they told me about Behemoth, which was only a stones throw away from Qufim. I would run out to Behemoth's Dominion every so often and try to see if I could find a Behemoth in the wild. Never saw him, figured he must not exist. And a giant turtle out in a remote part of Cape Terrigan? Get real, idiot. Keep in mind, the only NM's I had really encountered at that time were things like Leaping Lizzy, Valkurm Emperor, maybe some NM beastmen. I had a really hard time believing there were GIANT, special-model NM's out in the world.

The world was mysterious and full of wonder, I loved it.

The list really does go on and on. I know a lot of people rag on this game and lack of content/lazy content, but in the hayday, it was just absolutely fantastic. Even if they had missteps, the game at it's core was and still is pretty satisfying.
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 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-11-22 15:50:11  
Bahamut.Belkin said: »
FFXI has ruined any other modern MMO for me. I've got friends that play both WoW and FFXIV on a frequent basis, so I've put in honest attempts at both of them. I just got so tired of fetching the bagels. What I mean by fetching the bagels is "go kill 5 wolves for wolf hides", bring the hides back, get some EXP and gold, copy and paste with different mobs a billion more times. I peeped New World gameplay video after it was released and saw the sidebar littered with "obtain 5 bagels" type quests, sighed, and X'd out.
There really are only a few different kinds of quests you can do in an MMORPG: survive the journey to the location, assassinate one or more of an enemy, collect an item and bring it, deliver an item. That's about it. Anything else is basically just a spin on those things.

What makes FFXI unique among the MMORPG crowd is that quests aren't the only thing to do. Quests are really only a means to collect Fame and maybe some cool item reward. You don't get bored of them because you only do them when you deliberately need something. This is contrary to the common MMORPG formula, which sees quests as the main means to acquire EXP, money, and items. It gets really tiring really quickly.

I know a lot of people rag on FFXI for always needing a Wiki open. But even that has a beneficial impact on one's experience with the game. You look at the Wiki and read that you need to go to J-5. It's an easy thing to keep in mind. Until your quest is done now, you're immersed in the world. You're keeping an eye on the actual world in front of you, and occasionally opening up your map to check for forks in the road. It feels like a real adventure. Compare that to the WoW formula, which has you approach a brightly glowing question mark and then you follow a brightly glowing arrow to the brightly glowing exclamation mark. You don't even look at the world, you're just following a GPS. There's no adventure to be had.
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By RadialArcana 2021-11-22 15:51:42  
Bahamut.Belkin said: »
FFXI has ruined any other modern MMO for me.

XI ruined all other mmorpgs for me too but for another reason.

Every time I play some other mmo I get stuck into it but once you get past the basic meat of the game you're left with a something that "respects your time" (aka you have nothing to do in a few months). If I'm playing a game like this I don't want it to respect my time, the entire point of playing it is because I have time to waste or I wouldn't be playing it.

I'm used to and want this:



and I'm given this:



Most modern mmorpgs are basically made for people who don't like mmorpgs and just want a virtual world to stand around in.
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By Bahamut.Belkin 2021-11-22 16:09:36  
RadialArcana said: »
If I'm playing a game like this I don't want it to respect my time

You want it to treat you like a dirty little skank. I feel ya. I want to be able to put in some hard hours for noticeable gain over people who are casual.
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