Chango R15 Upheaval Vs Savage

For slashing is Chango R15 Upheaval or fencer build savage better?

depends

At least. Maybe. Sometimes.

What are the SJ's involved? That extra 10% Haste from hasso is over 50% increase in swing speed, then add on the extra 10 Store TP from the weapon itself.

Hasso is slightly less than a 50% increase in attack speed when at capped haste for WAR/SAM without Haste Samba (47.06% increase, to be specific), which gets further diluted by you incurring the 2-second weaponskill delay penalty more often.

It's still a very significant attack speed increase, though.

I say go Ukon and just forget about WS'ing and the delay at all.

I leave chango on for ease, soloing, accidental skillchains during group spam, as well as full break/armor break usage when necessary, oh and cleaving

If I need to not skillchain, or want pure damage I'll savage

As I mentioned before, it really depends on what someone is doing and whether they have subjob access or not. WAR/SAM with R15 Chango is going to do more real DPS then a Fencer WAR due to the massive difference in WS frequency. Having said that, fighting giant numbers of limited HP monsters tends to inflate SB's damage on something like scoreboard due to it recording 50K SB's on a monster with 10K HP remaining. We have a term for that, padding the parse.

Now if people really want to do Savage Blade, then make a Fernagu for off hand.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Fernagu

They will have both superior TP gain over single wielding while also having better WS damage due to +1250 TP Bonus.

Naeglings real strength comes from the attack bonus when buffed, Warrior isn't exactly hurting for attack while jobs like COR / BRD / etc are.

WAR/NIN with dolichenus / sanguarious will perform between then Fencer Naegling but worse then WAR/NIN Naegling + Fernagu.

~50K Decimations at high frequency is amazing, of course it doesn't pad the parse.

Where do Ukkon fit on the ranking?

Much lower then everything else, largely because it's tied to a bad WS and doesn't do anything for the stronger GAXE WS's. Currently the game is based on high volume of powerful WS's, that or making a skillchain, Ukkon doesn't help either of those scenarios. It sacrifices the greater source of damage, weapon skills, for the lessor source of damage, melee hits.

Can't Umbra. Sometimes it's just fun to bounce between weapon sets depending on your sub. Doing the same thing over and over again is a monks job.

Hey now, you don't have to throw strays at poor ol Monk who aint botherin no one. =)

The point of WAR is the ability to use multiple weapon types effectively and have huge success. The opposite are other jobs like (as mentioned), MNK, DNC, etc, who are very strong in their main class, and fall off terribly hard with basically anything else. That's kind of the beauty in WAR vs practically any other job. It shouldn't be a "Chango vs Naegling vs Ukonvasara vs Dolichenus" debate. Just build a set for every weapon type you can and when someone asks why you're using it, say "cuz im a warrior /dueces".

No shade! 10/10 at punching faces in.

I understand the discussion. I just feel like the "which is better" is subjective and how Austar put it, "depends". Savage is bonkers but Upheaval is pretty insane busted too. You won't WS as hard, but you definitely will TP faster, unless you're competing with Kraken club or something.

I think a lot of people disregard Chango/Ukonvasara because they see 50k+ SBs but they ignore the mediocre white damage or SC damage in between.

Unless Naegling has a fernagu offhand or a dancer giving haste samba, it will fall a bit far behind other options. Unless you are without a SJ. Fencer builds fall behind on frequency by a lot unless you have haste samba.


So, it really depends. is it a 6 man party with no subjobs? then naegling probably wins. do you have access to SJ and Igeo? then chango will kinda crap on everything else. You need to be more specific about what kind of party you are in and what content you will be doing.



Are we fighting Apex/Gaol/SheolC/Whatever and what is our party going to be?

In a group where the BRD and COR are dropping things to 15% shy of killing with 1 Savage Blade, Ukon fits in nicely. You're not going to win the parse, but a quick double attack for 22k finishes off those sloppy seconds easier and faster than a Savage Blade build that would mean building TP, and then overkill padding like Sechs mentions above.

Analyzing the parse on a single target or fight can often reveal the "which is best in this situation" debate cleaner than content like Dyna-D wave 1/2 or Odyssey:C where you're constantly changing targets. In that kind of situation I'm much more concerned about the party dynamics and how we all work together for faster kills and better returns for everyone not just bragging rights.

And let's all be honest here- we bring WARs to segment farming for their versatility to swap damage types so efficiently along with party buffs like Warcry and Bloodrage. Don't feel pressured to win the parse- instead focus on "how does me being here on WAR make us all more efficient compared to <insert other job>".

Ukon is actually pretty close to Chango now, just awkward to get working in a lot of the newer content. Requires some max sakpata stuff though

LTR

I have to give this a big giant "no". Something is messed up with gearsets or buffs if Naegling SB spam is winning most of the time. Only way I can possibly see this happening is if you are under attack cap? or maybe using Sakpata in your upheaval set while under capped? Only a few instances where SB spam should win, main one being sheol Gaol. Not Sheol C, Sheol Gaol. In C, basically every DD should 2 shot the mob with any weapon. Since you will have higher WS frequency with Chango than Fencer, Chango would easily be better unless something SUPER weird is happening. With a 6 man set up (tank war geo cor bard whm) and SJ active, Chango will crap all over naegling with or without SC being counted.


I mean, you can do it with all kinds of different weapons on War. It more implies to me that something is wrong with your GS or something. Or the specifc party you use is under capped attack enough to make Naegling the ideal weapon.