Addon: SheolHelper
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Addon: SheolHelper
Since April update no longer getting any segment counting in C.
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Same here, no longer getting segment count in C.
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Good news: v2 is now available after thorough testing and real use during the last weeks. Grab it at https://github.com/MarianArlt/sheolhelper/releases/tag/v2.0 or simply click here to download the compressed folder.
Changelog on front page of this topic or in release notes over at github. April update shift was fixed with this too, as May is around the corner the next update will probably shift again. With v2 being out now though, I won't have to worry about anything but the ID when that happens and that'll be a quick fix by then. Asura.Sechs said: » Hey Deridjian, have you considered putting this on the official Windower repository perchance?
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Just did a run and segment count matched with logs.
Thank you for updating. Anyway to add NIN hybrid WSD weakness to Cruel Joke?
Going to try to see if I can just add such myself tbh but an Official version would probably be Best. Odin.Deridjian said: » [...] if you see that mob x is generally weaker to air and slashing then by all means spam that jinpu to your hearts content! :) If it's an aquan and on top of that also resistant to air, well you get the idea. As Simon mentions, you should know your hybrid WS' element and then make a decision based on that.
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llAKs0nll said: » Anyway to add NIN hybrid WSD weakness to Cruel Joke?
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When/If you submit it to windower, the procedure is:
* Fork the windower Lua repo to your GitHub account * Clone the fork to your machine * Checkout the dev branch * Add your addon to the directory * git add it to the repository * git commit it to the repository * Push your commit to your GitHub fork * Open a Pull Request to the windower Lua repo's dev branch
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Asura.Bippin said: » llAKs0nll said: » Anyway to add NIN hybrid WSD weakness to Cruel Joke? Odin.Deridjian said: » Odin.Deridjian said: » [...] if you see that mob x is generally weaker to air and slashing then by all means spam that jinpu to your hearts content! :) If it's an aquan and on top of that also resistant to air, well you get the idea. As Simon mentions, you should know your hybrid WS' element and then make a decision based on that. Would still be more simplified seeing such like we see Cruel Joke & I cannot imagine such being too complicated to modify on my own. Thx anyways. llAKs0nll said: » That’s NOT when NIN does Dmg during Segs. It’s the Hybrid WS which totally ignores the Basic concept of Weak vs Slashing What? Maybe I don't understand what you are talking about. Are you not referring to hybrid Katana WS? such as Teki, Chi, To, and Yu? Cause whether a mob has any resistances to slashing(and the element of the WS being used) will have a large impact on how much damage the WS does. Asura.Bippin said: » llAKs0nll said: » That’s NOT when NIN does Dmg during Segs. It’s the Hybrid WS which totally ignores the Basic concept of Weak vs Slashing What? Maybe I don't understand what you are talking about. Are you not referring to hybrid Katana WS? such as Teki, Chi, To, and Yu? Cause whether a mob has any resistances to slashing(and the element of the WS being used) will have a large impact on how much damage the WS does. That’s cool if you feel like you don’t personally need such but I am going to modify the Addon so I don’t need to be bothered w/ any of such. llAKs0nll said: » It has absolutely ZERO whatsoever to do w/ Slashing Edit: llAKs0nll said: » It’s much easier to read the WS below like we see Cruel Joke. Asura.Bippin said: » llAKs0nll said: » It has absolutely ZERO whatsoever to do w/ Slashing Asura.Bippin said: » llAKs0nll said: » Anyway to add NIN hybrid WSD weakness to Cruel Joke? Asura.Bippin said: » What?. Asura.Bippin said: » But to say it has zero impact is just a lie Very few are weak to slashing in C. However some mobs are resistance to slashing and that will impact the damage of hybrid Katana (and GKT) WS.
Not sure why you are saying it has zero to do w/ slashing Edit: Can you still make use of them on mobs that resistance to slashing? of course but that will depend on gear/buffs. But to say it has zero impact is just a lie llAKs0nll said: » Huh? What? You don’t understand? Understood. Enough. IE Aquan take 50% less damage from slashing in C so slashing WS will do less damage.
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Yeah ... all hybrids first do a full physical WS calculation, which includes damage types. Then the results of that calculation are used as the base damage for the follow up magic WS, afterwards the two are added together. If the target is completely immune to physical damage, then the resulting damage will be with 0 base damage, but +MDMG will still be used. There was one of those quest monsters in Zitah this was tested against while back, it takes 0 from all physical damage full damage from magic.
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Asura.Saevel said: » Yeah ... all hybrids first do a full physical WS calculation, which includes damage types. Then the results of that calculation are used as the base damage for the follow up magic WS, afterwards the two are added together. If the target is completely immune to physical damage, then the resulting damage will be with 0 base damage, but +MDMG will still be used. There was one of those quest monsters in Zitah this was tested against while back, it takes 0 from all physical damage full damage from magic. llAKs0nll said: » Was only looking for the ability to turn on Sheol Geol and see which WS works w/o having to check some other source of info llAKs0nll said: » Did I misquote you? You didn’t say “huh, what, I don’t understand” repeatedly? Someone else said such? But I'll drop it as that is not the point of this thread. Asura.Bippin said: » llAKs0nll said: » Did I misquote you? You didn’t say “huh, what, I don’t understand” repeatedly? Someone else said such? But I'll drop it as that is not the point of this thread. Asura.Bippin said: » llAKs0nll said: » Was only looking for the ability to turn on Sheol Geol and see which WS works w/o having to check some other source of info llAKs0nll said: » ….more to do w/ having to recall each Element every time I go to use a WS nobody ever used up until R15 Nyame was available. It’s much easier to read the WS below like we see Cruel Joke. llAKs0nll said: » Did you see the list of Mobs. Not every single Mob in there is Weak to Slashing yet they are Weak to Elements. They strong vs Katana yet Hybrid WS still work & vice versa making questioning Strong / Weak vs Slashing to use Hybrid WS least important. Irrelevant. As someone who mostly plays NIN in segments nowadays: with very limited exceptions (e.g. possibly Qutrubs, since it might not be apparent to a player that they'll take cap damage from Chi while being earth resistant), you should be able to reliably intuit which WSes to use versus a given family by the information already relayed via SheolHelper. There is zero need for an additional layer putting on-screen to use X, Y, or Z WS. All you need to know is a family's susceptibility to slashing and their elemental resistances. In fact, taking another look at that chart you linked above, I would say SheolHelper is much more accurate overall; there are what I would consider to be many inaccuracies in the chart. For instance, it lists hybrids as good to use versus various plant/insect enemies, which as you'll see via SheolHelper have notable resistance to elements, with the effect that Savage Blade will in reality be much better.
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This had been the case for me as well on Sam, you can already see the elemental snd phys resistance, those alone should inform you on which ws to use
Asura.Disclai said: » [...] the [png image] chart [...] lists hybrids as good to use versus various plant/insect enemies, which as you'll see via SheolHelper have notable resistances to elements, with the effect that Savage Blade will in reality be much better. This being said the community kinda accepted that plantoids and vermin supposedly have a magic penalty in Odysseey. I hope it can be a decent guide as discussed right now~ Sheol C non-NM resistances are those of their normal mob families, except raised 3 levels. For example, a mob family that is 100% across the board normally would be 50% (100% > 85% > 70% > 50%) in Sheol C. 50% is when you get your damage cut by half even without a resist, so in Sheol C, only families with non-Odyssey resist ranks of 115%/130%/150% for that element and no Odyssey damage type penalty take full hybrid WS damage.
Geriond, I'm not sure I understand you well, but that makes little sense to me based on how I understand the current community agreement of Odyssey. (I could say "based on the current..." but I am but one person)
First you're not specifying if you're talking about weapon or elemental resis or both. Let's assume both. Let's take a Lynx (Coeurls in C). According to what you write a Lynx would now have 50% to all weapon types, 10% to thunder, 50% fire, 80% earth etc. etc. Maybe this is not what you wanted to say. The vast majority of the community sort of agrees that: Coeurls are beasts. All beasts take reduced piercing damage in Odyssey (to varying degrees, increasing from A through C). Usually Coeurls are 100% to all weapon types. They have their normal magical resistances which vary a lot but not because of Odyssey. By no means has a Lynx in Odyssey C reduced resistances all across the board. I've mentioned this before in this thread, nobody but Square knows the exact mechanics happening in Odyssey in that regard and extensive testing is almost zero. But we have come to this consensus just like we did with directional crafting back in the day. So you know the community must be right! (hahaha) I won't discourage discussions about this in this thread, so feel free to keep commenting :) I was talking about elemental resistance ranks. Sheol C mobs absolutely do not have their normal elemental resistances, which is quite clear to anyone that uses magic on them often. They're all ramped up three stages from their normal ones.
Those resistances you mentioned are not what a Lynx would have; 60% would go to 30% when resistance is upgraded by 3 stages, not 10%, for example. Asura.Geriond said: » Those resistances you mentioned are not what a Lynx would have; 60% would go to 30% when resistance is upgraded by 3 stages, not 10%, for example. This is interesting to me. Are there any discussions about this? Are there people taking notes on this? I haven't read any such statements before where elemental resistances where declared to have a flat penalty in Odyssey apart from our allmighty PNG charts. Some JPs tested it, and someone reported the results on ffxiah (forget where, maybe the Odyssey topic) a month or two ago. It predicts all of the elemental cuts that Sheol C mobs have that their families don't normally.
I'll try to dig up the original source later.
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So what I take from this is that eventually Square will make an interview for the 40th anniversary laughing about people making quick assumptions about Odyssey mechanics when in reality they had absolutely nothing changed hahaha.
If people could talk about what you mention more often it would hopefully raise awareness and more people could argue/discuss about it leading to more testing and ultimately implementation in the wikis. Honestly this is the first time I've heard this. Very intriguing. As far as SheolHelper goes, I'd appreciate more detailed pointers if anybody wanted me to look into this. I don't see me scouring the forums and sites for this. But it would absolutely affect the elemental table of the addon. Sorry, it was a 4 stage cut on C (for resistances starting at 100, it goes 100 > 85 > 70 > 60 > 50), not 3 stage, I misremembered.
Odin.Deridjian said: » So what I take from this is that eventually Square will make an interview for the 40th anniversary laughing about people making quick assumptions about Odyssey mechanics when in reality they had absolutely nothing changed hahaha. If people could talk about what you mention more often it would hopefully raise awareness and more people could argue/discuss about it leading to more testing and ultimately implementation in the wikis. Honestly this is the first time I've heard this. Very intriguing. As far as SheolHelper goes, I'd appreciate more detailed pointers if anybody wanted me to look into this. I don't see me scouring the forums and sites for this. But it would absolutely affect the elemental table of the addon. Actually, it was posted in this very topic on the previous page by Reain (I just found it again). Oh boi. Shame on me you're right. I even flagged it haha. Well,... I guess I'll add this to the to-do list then! Not sure if I'll work on it right now though. It's based on a single Japanese Twitter post. Even though you're reporting that you'd confirm this as a magic user, this would usually not be a great source to throw information at an addon that's getting used by several people by now. Not sure how I feel about this.
Edit: Added to [To-Do's and known bugs] for now. Thanks for bringing this up! |
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