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August 2022 Version Update
By Asura.Disclai 2022-08-10 12:02:25
We've got someone arguing DRG is in a ***position because... *checks notes* Asura PUGs don't specifically shout for them. Despite being one of the strongest DPS in the game for the last 3 years. I've never said it's in a ***position. I literally said it is "less desirable" based on actual reality and not paper maths. You are the typical "DRG is fine" fanboy that has existed on FFXI forums for the 18 years I've played so I won't try and reason with you. They exist for PUP BLU etc. too, it's ok. My points have been validated by others inadvertently already.
We need to draw a distinction between "desirable" and "desired," I think.
Jobs like KC DRG & NIN might not be "desired" in terms of Asura PUG yells (what a metric...), because they're (1) less popular/ized in general, (2) require higher gear levels / pricier items, and/or (3) have higher skill requirements to perform maximally.
They're very "desirable," though, because they're objectively among the top tier of DDs in the right hands, handily outparsing more run-of-the-mill "desired" ones. And that's based on reality, too, not "paper math."
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By Starbucks 2022-08-10 12:08:40
We've got someone arguing DRG is in a ***position because... *checks notes* Asura PUGs don't specifically shout for them. Despite being one of the strongest DPS in the game for the last 3 years. I've never said it's in a ***position. I literally said it is "less desirable" based on actual reality and not paper maths. You are the typical "DRG is fine" fanboy that has existed on FFXI forums for the 18 years I've played so I won't try and reason with you. They exist for PUP BLU etc. too, it's ok. My points have been validated by others inadvertently already.
We need to draw a distinction between "desirable" and "desired," I think.
Jobs like KC DRG & NIN might not be "desired" in terms of Asura PUG yells (what a metric...), because they're (1) less popular/ized in general, (2) require higher gear levels / pricier items, and/or (3) have higher skill requirements to perform maximally.
They're very "desirable," though, because they're objectively among the top tier of DDs in the right hands, handily outparsing more run-of-the-mill "desired" ones. And that's based on reality, too, not "paper math." I am only using PuG because I would be an idiot to claim the vast majority of static do not use DRG because it would not be something I could prove, despite knowing it to be true.
You are right though, I did not mean to say not "desirable" as in "not as good" but "as desired" as in "as requested".
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 33
By Asura.Specialkid 2022-08-10 12:11:14
Gallimaufry, the new currency
>me: wtf is that
>google: literally random ***lmao
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3184
By Asura.Geriond 2022-08-10 12:11:18
Other jobs being more durable doesn't matter at all when DRG doesn't take hate in the first place. This is exactly why WAR DRK SAM are better choices. I'm genuinely sorry you think PUGs are making informed decisions. I'm genuinely sorry that I can't peer into every static group in FFXI to see what they use to comment on it objectively, but I already know the answer and it is not DRG as much as it is WAR or SAM, or probably even DRK. Only because geared DRGs are less common. People come WAR/SAM/DRK because that's what they have.
By Starbucks 2022-08-10 12:13:36
Other jobs being more durable doesn't matter at all when DRG doesn't take hate in the first place. This is exactly why WAR DRK SAM are better choices. I'm genuinely sorry you think PUGs are making informed decisions. I'm genuinely sorry that I can't peer into every static group in FFXI to see what they use to comment on it objectively, but I already know the answer and it is not DRG as much as it is WAR or SAM, or probably even DRK. Only because geared DRGs are less common. People come WAR/SAM/DRK because that's what they have. Which they geared because they knew they would get more invites on and be asked to play more. Wahey!
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By Starbucks 2022-08-10 12:16:16
I’ve never used the Block function on this site, maybe I should start. Would have been easier than making this post, but then you wouldn't get the attention you want.
Cerberus.Tikal
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4945
By Cerberus.Tikal 2022-08-10 12:19:26
It's rare that I parse less than 8m-8.5m damage on NIN nowadays, with spikes up to 9m if a run is particularly favorable to me. What's your average WS frequency per run? Just curious.
For NIN, around 134-137 ws per run from my experience. But WS frequency is heavily affected by pt pulling speed, so I'm not sure if that's useful data.
We only pull 1 group at once, it's going to be slower than more aggressive pulls.
(So does specific dmg number per run as data, btw) As a metric alone, it fluctuates, yes. But WS frequency, total damage dealt, DPS, and the total (group) amount of enemies killed are the best approximation of effectiveness in my experience. Each alone doesn't account for much, as they fluctuate dependent on the other factors.
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サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5710
By Asura.Bluespoons 2022-08-10 12:21:47
Because I want someone to answer the ACTUAL question i asked! Not whine about dumb *** drg or drk.
And I think you are the last person who should talk about wanting attention.
It took me less than 2 seconds to find the info you asked for. Try looking at links in the OP before you stroke out in anger.
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Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2022-08-10 12:23:43
NIN and DRG becoming Savage Blade users is one of the saddest things I have heard. I'm done arguing about this, it is very obvious to me that many jobs need rebalancing so they can actually use their preferred weapon skills and perform better in a party. The one job that definitely does not need extra buffs is Corsair, and I played the job all the time. There is zero bias there.
NIN with naegling/TP Bonus is pretty sick, but yeah they seriously need to fix up Katana WS. Buddy of mine who is a sick ninja was able to get Ten to be pretty good, but Savage Blade was just stronger.
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Asura.Arico
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 535
By Asura.Arico 2022-08-10 12:25:23
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Hopefully this post aint serious blu aint seen a job update or gear change worth a damn in years. It needed gear help way more than cor has or will. Also yea recycle for cors when most never shoot is kinda funny.
Honestly those pants are really all blu needed imo.
Um did you misread it?
Yes :(
By Lili 2022-08-10 12:33:46
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Hopefully this post aint serious blu aint seen a job update or gear change worth a damn in years. It needed gear help way more than cor has or will. Also yea recycle for cors when most never shoot is kinda funny.
Honestly those pants are really all blu needed imo.
Um did you misread it?
Yes :(
Your profile pic does this post justice.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 472
By Asura.Wormfeeder 2022-08-10 12:37:40
Gallimaufry, the new currency
>me: wtf is that
>google: literally random ***lmao
gallimaufry
găl″ə-mô′frē
noun
A jumble; a hodgepodge.A hash; a medley; a hodgepodge, made up of the remnants and scraps of the larder.Hence Any inconsistent or ridiculous medley.
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サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 33
By Asura.Specialkid 2022-08-10 12:45:13
Gallimaufry, the new currency
>me: wtf is that
>google: literally random ***lmao
gallimaufry
găl″ə-mô′frē
noun
A jumble; a hodgepodge.A hash; a medley; a hodgepodge, made up of the remnants and scraps of the larder.Hence Any inconsistent or ridiculous medley.
prolly shoulda included the definition, but yeah! random ***lmao
we're picking up random junk we found in the (I assume) haunted ra'kaznar house
that could explain the new TAINTED and HAUNTED status effects
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By Aerix 2022-08-10 12:45:19
With all this new PDL on gear, especially the earrings, I have serious doubts even heavy DDs are going to cap that outside of old content. Even SV songs with Chaos roll is not enough unless you bring a GEO and have Dia/Breaks on everything. Which rules out the majority of Odyssey, whether segment farming or Gaol (either due to setup or because several NMs are seemingly immune to Breaks at v20).
So that leaves Apex/Locus, Omen, Geas Fete, Ambuscade, possibly Dyna-D? None of which really matters in terms of more physical DPS if it requires SPs; it's just brief epeen flexing at that point. You'll get the kill either way if you're able to zerg.
I guess it might be relevant in Sortie, but if it's really supposed to be soloable then I have my doubts it'll matter.
By Starbucks 2022-08-10 12:56:18
Because I want someone to answer the ACTUAL question i asked! Not whine about dumb *** drg or drk.
And I think you are the last person who should talk about wanting attention. Yes, you are *** if you are a PUP BST DRG BLM
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 731
By Asura.Lunafreya 2022-08-10 12:59:56
Trashing on DRG in the current state of the game is such a weird take.
By GwenStacy 2022-08-10 13:03:00
you guys think that they will announce a classic server soon?
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By Starbucks 2022-08-10 13:12:07
you guys think that they will announce a classic server soon? LOL
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By Starbucks 2022-08-10 13:12:22
Trashing on DRG in the current state of the game is such a weird take. I'm just baiting the DRGs
but noone is going to take DRG over WAR SAM DRK really, unless LS leader
By GwenStacy 2022-08-10 13:22:48
just do blu vs drg ballista and get it over with
kiss after
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サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 33
By Asura.Specialkid 2022-08-10 13:31:23
you guys think that they will announce a classic server soon?
I'm pretty sure they said somewhere that it would cost WAY too much to do. The answer is a plain no.
Phoenix.Capuchin
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3584
By Phoenix.Capuchin 2022-08-10 13:39:59
When did you ever see anyone shout for one though? Really? It's always WAR DRK SAM.
Of those 3 if were strictly talking seg farms DRKs probably the worst, drg can swap to sword and not bat an eye since they get JA haste regardless of weapon type, i wouldnt use pug shouts as an indicator for anything.
Agreed, DRG is pretty great for seg farm. Strong for all three physical damage types with Naegling, Polearm, and solid with staff. It's more flexible than DRK and SAM at least. Really though, any of WAR DRK DRG SAM are basically interchangeable in a segment DD slot. PUG shouts are just dumb sometimes, that's all.
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3753
By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2022-08-10 13:42:14
When did you ever see anyone shout for one though? Really? It's always WAR DRK SAM.
Of those 3 if were strictly talking seg farms DRKs probably the worst, drg can swap to sword and not bat an eye since they get JA haste regardless of weapon type, i wouldnt use pug shouts as an indicator for anything.
Agreed, DRG is pretty great for seg farm. Strong for all three physical damage types with Naegling, Polearm, and solid with staff. It's more flexible than DRK and SAM at least. Really though, any of WAR DRK DRG SAM are basically interchangeable in a segment DD slot. PUG shouts are just dumb sometimes, that's all.
Biggest hurt DRK faces in segment farming has to be the lack of a high end piercing option, meaning that Lamia are just a ***, even when swapping to Loxotic Mace+1/Blurred Shield+1. Sure, you WS great with that combo and modern gear, but TP gain is sure hurting compared to other jobs on that family in particular. Still capable of great things, but its a big gap in my book.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3184
By Asura.Geriond 2022-08-10 13:42:32
Other jobs being more durable doesn't matter at all when DRG doesn't take hate in the first place. This is exactly why WAR DRK SAM are better choices. I'm genuinely sorry you think PUGs are making informed decisions. I'm genuinely sorry that I can't peer into every static group in FFXI to see what they use to comment on it objectively, but I already know the answer and it is not DRG as much as it is WAR or SAM, or probably even DRK. Only because geared DRGs are less common. People come WAR/SAM/DRK because that's what they have. Which they geared because they knew they would get more invites on and be asked to play more. Wahey! Or because they've been those jobs for years and years, picking them up back ahen Dragoon WAS substandard. People who already have strong DD jobs like SAM and WAR are less likely to pick up other DDs like DRG, even if they're on par or even better, usually spending time and gil on whstever roles their groups are low on instead.
I know that whenever I'm in a segment farm, a Bumba run, or something similar, I grab good Dragoons right up whenever I see them.
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