Continued Prime Weapon NA Review

Fundamental difference between all these events and Sortie: the muffins are given to all players in attendance, regardless of how many people you have in the alliance. So the rewards scale with number of players you bring in. Going with 6 is kneecapping yourself because the alliances of 18 are clearing all the trash plus all 9 bosses and blowing your 6 man out of the water. This is not even remotely true of Omen, Vagary, or Delve, there are a limited number of mobs to kill and way more time than you could ever need. Could be argued that dyna-D groups can clear more with more players, but the drops must be distributed amongst the players, automatically scaling the rewards for bringing more/fewer players.

It's becoming increasingly clear that nobody other than me cares about spending hundreds or thousands of hours on improving their character and has no pride whatsoever in anything that wasn't ball-bustingly difficult, so I guess I'm just in the minority here.

I guess you all should cancel your subs and start playing WOW then, because they have larger raids there and you won't have to worry about offending your 7th-best friend.

Please do not make Sortie a 18 man run, I want to Yell get stuff done and Log off,

womp womp
characters locked out of boss fights dont get muffins. So your theory that alliances will split up, clear all content with ease and get 100k each is DoA.

In a vacuum: yes because that person played the ***out of that job and put in a ton of work on their character.

In FFXI? For me, it has the inverse effect because everyone I've ever met with ML50 botted basically the entire thing.

It's still 100% true. Here's how I would run an alliance-level Sortie run:

1 Party to each zone, clear the entire zone of mobs, plus get all 8 objectives. This gives thousands and thousands of muffins the 6-man group doesn't have.

Then the entire alliance converges together and goes to all 4 ground floor bosses and kills them all. Then they go to all 4 basement bosses and kill all of them. Then they go kill Aminion.

If there's extra time, clear more trash.

It will be tens of thousands more muffins than a 6-man group, and a 6-man will literally just be 18-man but with less rewards.

Please explain to me how adding more players without adjusting the content would not result in more rewards.

i 100% Agree Sortie should stay a 6 man event, it is actually engaging i don't understand who ppl are mad about it, its much more better than Odyssey and omen. its a dungeon crawl with 2 setups and objectives go in and go out fast and furious. Odyssey is boring u have to farm daily for points do bosses in a certain level even if u kill higher Levels u don't access the armor to yell for RP and it encourages Buying runs, Maybe people are mad because no 1 buys sorties at least yet. I was lucky for my clear, than i farmed it with a random RDM Duo RDM + PLD after getting clear. and its stuck at 25/30 because i dont have access to the v30 but just the CLEAR as RDM so i moved to asura. coz *** that ***i want to yell for sortie and get things done not afk
(i mean for HENWEN)

Scale the rewards based on the size of the party, fewer muffins for larger groups. Most of the issues you mention with making it 18 man content have some workaround that can make it viable.

I'm not saying it's the right approach to making Sortie appeal to more people and I'm also not saying it's a trivial change, it would require balancing, but I think it would open more doors and make it potentially more interesting.

It also has next to no chance of happening. IMO at best we'll get an item trade in system of some sort for galli and earrings. I doubt they are going to make the fundamental changes required for it to become alliance content.

I think co-ordinating 18 people to go to the right spots after figuring out proper jobs in the first place would be more of a headache than building a mythic by NPCing only Treant Bulbs off of saplings in S Gust.

I find it boring. Many others do as well. I've beaten this to death but it's dull, you spend way too much time running, and it is very repetitive.

but this raises an interesting point that I've observed somewhat casually: a lot of players who like Odyssey really don't like Sortie and a lot of players who like Sortie really don't like Odyssey and never touch it.

Its stupid how the level system works in Odyessy it really Encourages buying runs for me am now stuck for henwen 25's 5 levels away from 30 i joined amphiarus as paladin and we would duo the run for RP but than i was gone for 2 weeks and i bet u he is done with the RP and il be very *** lucky if i find someone 1 who could enter me in that fight, and Its *** that u have to do all nms in tiers again and levels its difficult to get a group of
people to do because that thing is easily bought and Locked to a shitty system that no 1 wanted only Mercenaries if you dont want to Actively Pursue something like a Prime weapon its ok stick with buying gill and do ur relic/ empy aeonic and mythics let the people who enjoy a steady climb play the *** game.
AND i really enjoy Asura so Far with sortie yells and yelling myself much better than other servers minus the RMT yells of course even tho its a conn its still much better

I like both.

So? Don't buy RP then? Basically the only bosses I see people selling RP for are Bumba and Kalunga, I rarely see any of the others and anyone making real progress in Odyssey is doing it by finishing the climb with a group.

I don't necessarily disagree with you either, but the boss fights have enough random elements thrown in that if you only gave RP to full clears, people would never finish. It's a tradeoff but one that makes sense if you consider how you can do 10 v25 runs and have them all go different directions for reasons you have 0 control over.

So anyone that can't find 1hr daily runs worthwhile doing, in a game where farming Aby items for empyrean can take weeks/months, making mythic can take several months, can't be bothered to spend time improving their character?

Maybe the difference is in having or not having a choice with doing these things in batches or having to forgo progress if you cannot dedicate 1hr a day every day to it.

Or maybe people forget how long it takes to make that first empyrean or mythic with little or no prior knowledge of the most efficient methods of doing them, or ability to farm gil effectively through lack of gear.

Iv been yelling hewens for RP NP lol, just not been luky the past 2 weeks and i am stuck 25/30 like i said on the above post am jsut over odyssey after today i will never enhance bumba set over 20 and i will try again yelling for henwens who can access 25 or 30 for RP to duo again, will see tho what happens, but yea its why i enjoy sortie even if its somewhat mindless its just still feels fresh for a 6 man run, although i feel we should have something like limbus/1/2 for 18 mans as a casual event and nothing like Sortie just simple for new players and veterans alike that can be used for 18 mans or something like einherjar. oh god i just a saw this its like A reaction to a reaction video lol

And all these generous types who want to bring their friends are going to drop their muffin reward by 20% by bringing their friend, the DNC, to their Sortie manaburn party.

I'm not trying to be a contrarian here, I'm really not...just pointing out that all the "simple solutions" everyone offers to solve the problems they see in Sortie will introduce a ton of other problems.

Maybe you're fine with those problems and would prefer to have those problems instead of the problems you have with the content today, that's fine everyone is welcome to their own opinion. I'm just saying that rewards and balance are a lot more complex than these ideas give credit for and there's always going to be conflict in a social game. In your system I guarantee you there will be behind-closed-doors conversations of people saying "I'm not bringing Jerry, he's going to lower muffin rewards by 10k and his SMN is not going to do enough to make up the difference."

Maybe everyone else would be fine with 18-man alliances smashing the whole zone because then they could have linkshell Sortie runs, but IMHO you'd have to do some very complex re-balancing of the event if you made it alliance content. Maybe they should've done it that way in the first place so people could play with all their friends: but once again my point is that it's very difficult to make an event that rewards 18 players without "requiring" 18 players, and in a dying game with small populations, it sucks to have content which gets easier the more players you have in it, when your linkshell doesn't have 18 active members, much less 18 who can get on at the same time.

To be clear: I'm not even referring to my situation. I'm sure we could put together 18 or more players to fill an alliance and do Sortie together, we have a good community and have often had to remove mules and even real players from our Omen/Dynamis/Vagary runs to keep them under 18. But there are a LOT of people playing ffxi who can't put together 18 characters, especially not for a regular event.

Send me a tell when I'm back on next week and I'll take you in for some.

If by accomplishment, you mean forcing yourself to smash your genitals with a hammer do the same boring-*** sortie run for months, that requires less skill than v25s, sure, I guess that's an accomplishment.

The only real challenge with Primes, is hating yourself long enough to finish the grind.

Also, if seeing alts/mules having REMAs diminishes your sense of accomplishment, it might be worth evaluating how much self-worth is being attached to these weapons. REMAs aren't a 0-sum game, and someone else having one, even a mule or alt, doesn't take away from you having one. If it's not even about having the weapon, but having something someone else doesn't, then the only thing I can even think of that comes close to that is R30 Nyame. I can't imagine too many mules are walking around with that. My alt WHM having yag shouldn't rustle your jimmies.

Maybe it's better to speak of pride than accomplishment. I'm proud of my characters because of their gear and the work I put in to get that gear and improve them.

Say SE put a chest in Lower Jeuno where any character could select any REMA they want and there was no limitation on how many you could pick up.

Would that not diminish your sense of pride in your character? Sure, it doesn't take away your accomplishment because you did it the hard way. But nobody who /checks you could possibly know that. So basically everything you've ever worked on in the game can now be acquired by a guy who started yesterday. Are you still really proud of the hard work you put into your character?

I mean I guess in theory people can separate the two and still be proud of their hard work, and I'm sure I would be, but I'm sure people would have a shitfit because some random jackass got something they spent 300 hours working on by clicking a box.

Obviously this is hyperbole, but the same thing happens on a smaller scale. If it's a complete joke to get an item, nobody (including yourself) gives a ***that you got it. Is anyone proud of their Nibiru Knife? This scales (or it should). The harder it is to get an item, the more pride you feel in having obtained it. If it is something you can get while afk accidently, then you can't feel very proud of yourself for having gotten it. Nobody gives a ***if you have a stack of bird feathers.

Accurate. Self hatred is a must.


Inaccurate. You having a yag whm means they, as a whm, are left out of any potential thing you do. It IS in fact, zero sum. And should rustle jimmies. It shouldn't, but it is/does.

Not to detract from shitting on Sortie circlejerk, but have any other WS besides staff been tested yet? I'm really curious to see what sword, dagger or gun look like.

The jptwitter posted that the ws wall exists, but didn't post how good Merciless Strike is

But I don't use twitter, maybe in their posts is more about it.
https://twitter.com/ff11377

This is under the faulty pretense I was going to invite that other WHM; I wasn't. 99% of the time I don't play with people outside my linkshell. They were never getting an invite, and my alt WHM having Yag had nothing to do with it. All it does is fill a gap if/when we don't have the healing support internally, or alleviates a career healer so they can play something else instead of being constantly shafted on an undesired role.

The alt WHM is never going to see a v25, which coincidentally is the only content in the game that beating it is an actual accomplishment. I haven't done any of those fights with non-LS WHMs either, so there's been exactly 0 times the alt's taken a spot a "real" WHM could have filled.

All that to say, what you're saying could be true, it just isn't with me.

If you didn't, you would have to. That's the primary reason multiboxing is despised. (you could quit too of course)

It makes it zero sum.

So you think one party is clearing out the 96 mobs in A, the 69 mobs in B, the 60 mobs in C, the 80ish Fomor in D, running to ABCD bosses and killing them as a group, running to each EFGH bosses and killing them as a group, and Aminion as a group...and then clearing more fodder in a basement?

How much are you abusing Tako?

re: the dagger JP user

there's a video showing them using the WS but it's only doing 5k~9k. Whether or not they're gearing for it is unknown. Just shows three step SC.

Think you forgot to answer one of my queries.


OK sure, rephrase to: clear as many of the mobs as you can in 10 minutes, keeping in mind since you have 18 people your job flexibility skyrockets so you can have 8 BLUs or WARs doing fell cleave or whatever. I think 12 people cleaving trash which aggros (and in some cases links) is pretty damn trivial. Sure, they won't clear the entire zone, but they're going to get at least 10-20k bonus muffins that a 6-man group has 0 chance of getting. Pull all the elementals together and cleave them in seconds, they don't even have TP moves and can be aoe silenced/stunned by your army of BLUs.

I've never used Tako in my life.