Final Fantasy XVI

Anyway ignoring the ludicrously stupid idea that genre mixing isn't a natural part of the creative process, I'll settle the FF debate once and for all

The question of what is and is not a real Final Fantasy game is neither new nor limited to just 15 and 16 simply because they are different. The same conversations happened 20 years ago when this game (11) came out and people refused to acknowledge it as a real Final Fantasy because it didn't fit their expectations/doesn't meet x,y,z arbitrary criteria/is an MMO/etc. Times change, the gaming industry evolves, and customer expectations shift, but companies still want to hold onto their successful franchises. I would not expect to see a brand new numbered mainline Final Fantasy game with a turn-based battle system, a 40+ hour story, heavy exp/JP grinding, or any of the other things that veteran fans love from the NES-PS2 era of the series.

Recent years have had the JRPG term thrown around to mean any game out of Japan, which it isn't. Zelda is not a JRPG for example. The original DW/DQ games, the FF series up to 13, BoF and other games of that ilk. It's really not hard to see the difference in play style from games like SoM, Tails, Y's or Alundra. They are all good games, just these categories have meaning because it lets the buyer know what to expect when purchasing.

If FFXVI was some cyborg running around with arm cannon defeating robot masters, would people still be cheering it on?

But its *** true man, you know its True FF16 feels like a good spin off game, u want to control the characters!

They implemented FF15 party swap mechanics because stubborn fans requested it, not because the game mechanics needs it. I played the newer version and swapped members like once or twice and don't bother again, due to how poorly implemented other playable characters are.

FF15 battle system isn't designed in a way that swapping member is an essential part of gameplay. It's an addition that is added not because the core gameplay needs it, but because fans said they don't "feel right" without controllable party members.

IMO if the game uses action combat system, then it's better to remove party system completely. I don't enjoy half baked party system that has 5 controllable party members to swap to but their gameplay being inferior because the devs don't have enough time to design a complete gameplay system with depth and variety for 5 other characters in the team.

I'd rather see a 1 character arpg system that is done really, really well, than a 6 character arpg system that 5 of the members aren't well done.

A lot of complaints like party members or GoT style or aren't complaint about bad designs, it's complaint about preferences. But party swap system in FF15 is bad design. No thanks.



Pretty much sums up why they removed the party system in 16.

FFXV and XVI would be decent as their own series, especially since XV was indeed part of the Versus line before getting a name change. SE makes a whole bunch of ARPGs so its not like they can't spin a new line. They used the FF main titles in a blatant attempt to increase sales.

Play FFXII then compare that to XV or XVI. But hey, SE could of released FFXVI as a street fighter clone and folks here would of praised it as an innovative cross genre masterpiece.

In FFXI you control one character(multi boxing not withstanding), and the story acts as though you do things alone over half the time. Even when you team up with other people, you still only control your one guy.

In FFXIII you control one character at a time, and get a game over if the leader of the party gets KO'd.

In FFXIV same deal as XI.

FFXV has already been discussed.

FFXVI just follows in those footsteps. Control over the whole party has been diminishing since 2002 in Final Fantasy.

They haven't designed FF for one person controlling the whole party in a long time.

Funny, once upon a time Bethesda changed a major rpg franchise called Fallout. It was an isometric rpg with a turn based combat system with companions. Bethesda changed it into FPS style lol.

And then when the original creators of Fallout (Obsidian Entertainment aka people from Black Isle Studios) made Fallout New Vegas they follow the new direction and used the fps gameplay system from Bethesda.

These days people kinda just accept the fact that if Fallout 5 is out it'll likely be first person.

So it's not even uncommon that game genre change overtime. Fallout, Assassin's creed, God of war...other devs change
genre overtime too.



This is a bad comparison since SF isn't narrative game but arpg can be one. FF is more likely to become first person rpg Bethesda style before becoming a fighting game lol.

I wouldn't really consider XI or XIV part of the main series, they should of been labeled "Final Fantasy Online" or some such. FFXV is not the first time SE's renamed one product into the main FF line to boost sales. We tolerate it because while it's "online", it's still party play with The job system and similar enough not to cause a ruckus. FFXII was basically FFXI single player edition, especially after giving us the jobs system that was made available for the Japanese.

There is nothing wrong with 15/16 games themselves, but they aren't JRPG's and share nothing with the previous games other then a name. If FFXVII had us play as a cyborg with an arm cannon who killed other robots, named after the summon avatars, for their powers, would you still insight on defending it? We had this exact discussion when XV was released.

Ultimately what it comes down to is FFXV and FFXVI are both ARPG's which have radically different play styles then the JRPG's the series defined. ARPG's focus more on timing button smashes to dodge and counter moves, while JRPG's focus more on character builds and party strategy. Effectively you are telling chess players they should be happy playing basketball instead.

So umad cuz FFXVI "isnt a JRPG", but who said Final Fantasy = JRPG?

What defines a JRPG? At face value: JRPG = "Japanese RPG". Ergo, FFXVI is a JRPG.

Final Fantasy quite literally defined the JRPG genre. Both Squaresoft and Enix were masters of this format and made plenty of games from it. Playing word games won't win anyone over, it's a well defined genre that even has modern variations like Bravely Default.

If Final Fantasy defined the JRPG genre, then Final Fantasy is the one to redefine the genre.

There are no rule that jrpg must have characters builds and strategy. I've played many jrpg games in the 90s that solely focused on story telling. Characters join or leave the party based on story but not player's choice, or they gain skills and job role based on story but not player's choice.

But people still call them jrpg because characters level up and they have stats.

FF4 is a story focused game with minimal choice on party builds. 90% of the builds offered are based on story but not player's decision. By this logic FF4 isn't a jrpg or a weak jrpg, but plenty of people would disagree.

So if FF16 has stats of course it's jrpg. Like how Ys 1 is jrpg too. Rpg is just a genre of game with stats and level based progression system, jrpg is rpg made by Japanese. Any games that fits both criteria are jrpg.

Im not sure why does it changed into something more niche than that.

If you want a more accurate description for FF1-10 type of games, call it turn based rpg or party based rpg with a linear story. Jrpg should be used to describe rpg games(games with progression and stats) made by Japanese.

Just finished all the side quests and heading to the last Mission now.

I've definitely enjoyed the game but I'm really thorn because I'm so disappointed at the missed opportunity of making a really amazing game that could rival with things like Elden Ring in the modern rpg landscape.

Gameplay is fun but really shallow. After playing around with the abilities you'll likely find out that 3or 4 skills are OP and if you don't play them you will gimp yourself. However game is so easy that you really don't need a viable build and you can kinda spam skills and still win. Also there is no need to change build based on the boss. For instance there is never ever an occasion in which Aerial blast wins over Diamond Dust, but you can still play Aerial Blast and win the game with little effort.

Maybe this changes in NG+ but I'm honestly not sure if I wanna go through the game again.

Gear is completely irrelevant apart for a bunch of accessories. There is really nothing else to say about equipment sadly.

Mission and quest's pacing is exactly the same as Ffxiv, which I didn't mind. However it really doesn't match well with the fast paced action gameplay.

Sidequests are pretty bad at the beginning and become more interesting at the end, but it's to late for redemption. The delivery of the side quest is literally the same as any popular MMORPG: talk to some npc, fetch some items or kill some monsters, go back to npc for reward. It doesn't matter if the story is good, it's hard to care for it if it's just a bunch of skippable dialogue.

I liked the story and the world building overall, but it peaked during the mid game and slowly started feeling like a generic MMO storyline towards the end. Like bahamut eikomic fight is peak digital entertainment experience (I wouldn't call it gaming experience) but after that it gets dull. Mind that I haven't done the last Mission yet. If it does reach the same peak I will be happy about the story. However Several scenes are quite cringey and don't add anything to the story.

I find it really hard to understand some of their decisions like:

No minimap/compass outdoor
No exploration at all
Gatekeepint the fun mode after a first playthrough
Chocobo commands sucks
Very little rpg elements

LMFAO.... yeah doesn't work that way.

The newer games are Action RPG's, known as ARPG's and focus on real time combat interactions. Dark Souls is a good example though Squaresoft's Secret of Mana was also an ARPG.

The category is muddled because people misuse the term. Jrpg is simply rpg made by Japanese, it's as simple as that.

But then people started to use this terms to describe one particular style of games like party based, linear story rpg with an anime style. That's when you run into the problem of non-Japanese made rpg are still called jrpg.

Imagine a Chinese made party based linear rpg being called "jrpg". I'd be furious if I am the dev lol.

It's also kinda funny that people refuse to recognize dark souls as jrpg only because the styles are too western for them.

If we don't want genre definition being muddled then we need to stop misusing terms. How jrpg being used as a term should go back to what it really is: rpg made by Japanese.

Use different tags like "souls-like" "arpg" "linear" "party-based" "turn-based" for specific design direction if you are looking for them. Most game selling websites have those tags and description, it's near impossible to buy the wrong games these days.

My favorite jrpg is MGS

and Donkey Kong

One at a time is how it always is. Turn based controls one member at a time. Party swapping controls one at a time. Both have a party to control.

11 and 14 still has a party, semantics over 1 human or 6 humans. (the party leader assigns "commands and/or tasks" to the other 5 humans)
Multiboxing would be one-at-a-time as well.

Nah gotta go hard core, Super Mario RPG. They even got a movie made.

Yes it does. (If we assume FF defined the JRPG genre, which is a more complex subject to touch, but i'm not gonna go deeper into that)

Anyway, here's the thing. Every FF game has seen its gameplay change from the previous entry. Sometimes it is little changes, sometimes it is bigger changes. But one thing for sure, if there is one jp series that keep on evolving, be it for the better or worse, it's definitely FF.
Considering it's not an FF anymore because the gameplay is not the same as the previous games is just absurd and wrong.

It didn't change "gameplay".

It changed genre entirely.

Why is this so hard to understand.

Oh 7 has materia, 8 has draw, 9 has skill points, 10 has sphere grid. "totally different games!" No they aren't. Same candy different wrapper.

16 is not candy, it's not even food. it's a bowling pin.

I remember back when from super Nintendo up to Ps2 i have always just called them RPG's man, and they are RPG's not JRPGS. FF16 is not a RPG, and not a final fantasy game,

FF16 is the Asura's wrath of Final fantasy, just like how it is for street fighter

Yeah no.

The JRPG genre is a real thing and is usually defined as a game having a look and feel to the early 80's Japanese RPGs of Dragon Quest / Final Fantasy. When I said Final Fantasy literally defined the genre, I was being quite literal as in the 1987 Final Fantasy. These were in contrast to the western RPG's like Pool of Radiance / Hillsofar / etc.. that were later termed CRPG's. Both styles have their roots in Dungeons and Dragons and both spawned a third category called Action RPGs or ARPGs. The main difference being that ARPG's shifted the combat focus from statistics / dice rolls to real time combat with the player actively involved in combat.

JPRG/CRPG has the player issue commands to characters that has the success or failure of those commands based on statistics. ARPG's have the player directly control the character and the success or failure is based on the players skill. This is the singular biggest difference, how much of the game-play involves the player watching enemies actions and pressing the correct combo sequence to counter that action vs just having a dice roll of character accuracy vs enemy evasion. D&D combat mechanics are heavy into statistics and dice rolls and JRPG/CRPGs were based on D&D.

Trying to convince players that basketball is the same as chess doesn't go over well with the chess players. These are very different game styles that lead to very different experiences. A person who enjoys JRPG's might not like the button mashing of an ARPG like FFXV, FFXVI, Y's 8, Trials of Mana, or Dark Souls.

Must be MGS Acid!

Nobody tries to convince FF16 is same type of game as earlier FF lol. Literally every interview and review said FF16 is arpg. The game even has a demo to demonstrate what kind of game it is.

It's basically just FF16 haters 100% knowing the game is arpg, and still post drama on the internet over a game that is already made. Only because they don't like the game direction, not because they accidentally purchased the wrong game.


FF16 is RPG by definition, or arpg at least. You can argue that it's not very deep or it doesn't deliver the experience that you look for, but calling it not-rpg is like saying YS also isn't rpg. Which is totally awkward.

It's not an rpg at all. It's not an arpg. It's a straight up action game.