Newer Players Need To Step Up Their Game

Look I'm not trying to gatekeep here, everyone wants the community in this game to be the best it can be and that means helping beginners evolve into veterans.

However, I saw this thread on Reddit today about WoW and it really reminded me of my experience in FFXI lately: https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1fl6az3/wow_has_a_problem_where_everyone_wants_to_do_hard/

"WoW has a problem where everyone wants to do hard content but only 5% of those people want to put in the absolute bare minimum amount of effort required to do that content"

I feel like this accurately describes modern FFXI as well. The last few linkshells I've gotten into that actually did events, it was roughly 3 or 4 veteran players who knew what they were doing and had a solid spread of jobs with adequate gear and knew how to play them, then 10-15 somewhat newer players who have absolutely nothing except one or two DD jobs which they claim are "pretty well geared" but are actually rocking a Kaja weapon and fulltiming Ambuscade armor. These players go quiet the moment folks mention that we need a COR, BRD, GEO, WHM, etc in order to do the content they're wanting to do. Same when directly encouraged to level a job that can contribute at events without top-end gear, they just kind of go quiet and weeks/months later they're still doing the same thing: asking to come on their crappy NIN because they "need to get better gear." (Hint: DD jobs need better gear than anyone else in the group. Literally ANY other job will be easier to contribute with than the one job newbies all want to play which is DD.) These people are trying to dive into Odyssey/Sortie/etc (the hardest content in the game) to get the more advanced rewards while still being unable to contribute in intermediate content that they regularly get carried through. It's completely out of order!


New players: We want to help you. We really do. But carrying dead weight gets old pretty fast. This game has a progression, it doesn't "start" once you reach the peak of performance. It basically starts when you hit Lv99. If you're 99, you are IN the prime of the game. Be patient and build yourself up brick by brick. Enjoy the journey.

Research the content. Research what builds people are doing the content with. Level and gear more than one role so that a melee job isn't the only thing you have to offer. Research how those jobs are played. ASK QUESTIONS, don't just quietly join and assume all you have to do is wack stuff with your weapon. Ask about strategy if you don't know. Ask what your job needs in order to be "good enough" for that content if you don't know.

Yes, you'll get some elitist *** who just don't want to deal with you. Don't let that discourage you, you still did the right thing by outing yourself as a beginner. FFXI also has a fantastic base of extremely helpful players who will spend hours helping you and ask nothing in return, but we're going to lose interest pretty fast if you aren't proactive about trying to contribute. So don't take advantage of helpful players; try to find ways to make it easier for them to help you, most importantly by having a job that can support them in some way while you're with them.

FFXI players, for the most part, love helping people and are some of the most awesome and helpful MMO players around, but if you make helping you as difficult as possible then you're going to have a harder time finding willing help.

Thanks and God bless
-Perg

Bookmarked and pinned in all my discord servers.

Asking questions is the tl;dr best thing you can do. So many years of information tucked away in different places no one knows it all. So ask until you find someone somewhere who does.

New players need to not be starting a 22 year old mmo

That's all they really need to know

If youre starting a two decade old live service game, you're already a lost cause, brainless. It doesn't need to go any deeper than that.

Every part of the new player experience is miserable. A thousand hours of unskippable cutscene a billion pointless missions that literally everything is locked behind. A never ending list of fetch quests and a thousand fast travel points to open. Of course they want to do as little of that as possible.

Man Eiryl, this game has really made you a bitter and unhappy person that shows every time you post here. I feel sorry for you. Sad thing is you will probably still be here when there is no one or nothing left to insult.

How about the people he's referencing that are already playing and in those linkshells Pergatory described? How about the dozens and dozens of red ? players I see running around all the home towns that aren't obvious Salvage bots? Some people still care, even if only a little, about the community and would like to help if these people show a little initiative.

I'm in 100% agreeance that it is frustrating, was potential waste of time, and annoying that people somewhat obliviously want to get carried. I tell everyone who's either new or interested in playing that hey, it's a 23 year old game with 5ish expansions worth of content - it's going to be a while until you're realistically endgame. I want to be devil's advocate though and say you could also form/schedule your own raids and screen your own players if you're seeing a pattern if you're not doing so already. If you are doing that, perhaps tighten up on who you bring along

DID you post this to the FFXI subreddit?
Because ya should.

I see some pretty rough posts there, folks asking questions that google would answer in seconds, and i'm all for a supportive community (i either help, or keep my mouth shut for the most part) but at some point you need to help yourself. Folks asking why they can't proceed in the Dancer job unlock quest, and they either didn't pay attention to the wiki or they didn't use it, or something...

Actually its the opposite.

Veterans players are the ones who should leave the game after some amount of time.

There is no non-MMORPG game that takes more than 1 month of playing to get everything done. Playing the same thing for over a decade is another level of bizarre.

Maybe if there wasnt that many veterans new players could enjoy the game as an unexplored land. Maybe the experience would be better.

There is nothing you can do about new players though. Being a numbered Final Fantasy, the same people who look for playing OG FF1 are the very same who would try to play FF11.

Thats the power of franchise.

The experience you're describing here is exactly what you'd get in a new game.

New players should be playing new games. FFXI isn't the best game, but it'll always be my favorite game. The reasons are all over 20 years old and only exist because at the time, I was a new player in a new game.

Just posted this in the discords I'm in, this is very well written Pergatory and sums up a lot of my complaints about newer players so damned well.

Runescape: January 4, 2001
WoW: November 23, 2004

I wager this will go down about as well as a grenade in the middle of a baby taru's birthday party.

Don't forget in 10 days ffxiv will be 14 years old. Swtor 13 years old... starting any MMO at this point is starting an "old" game. His point makes absolutely no sense, people can play old games and still enjoy themselves... no reason to only play "new" games, especially when they barely exist in terms of MMOs.

Lmao, block his account ya'll, I'm like what is everyone talking about??? John travolta confusion ... and then I'm like oh yeah, I just blocked him, lol

Expect more of new players. Help the ones that do work and research like we had to back when the content in question was new for us. In the long run they learn it like we did, and now they're the helpers. Otherwise, unless you want a long-term relationship with those who aren't working towards the goal, but still get the rewards, let those who won't work get "frustrated" with XI and move on.

Either make their maturation your responsibility and build new players up even when they aren't working at it, or tighten up the networks of folk who ARE willing to work and succeed in XI, just in smaller numbers than we remember "back in the day".

As a new player, I don't understand this comment at all. I started playing the game two months ago and yeah, 22 years of mechanics, story, side content, and so forth, it's a lot. The learning curve is steep, but not insurmountable. With YouTube, forums, and veteran players, all questions can be answered with a little effort. It's how I found this community in the first place.

I've been solo since day one and yeah, there's been some struggle, but it makes the victory that much sweeter. I have no idea how long I can continue to solo, but I don't have a problem grinding for gear or unlocking new content as long as I'm having fun.

If I've learned anything the last couple of months, even with the vague quests and the sometimes brutal content blocks, this game is definitely still fun.

Eiryl was referring to actual new players, like teenagers.

This game was designed to teenagers from 20 years ago.

Obviously thats a generational change between teenagers back then and teenagers nowadays.

Obviously too that there will be people who enjoy it, but being a product not specifically targeted to younger player generation, its a hit or miss chance, most likely a miss due to many aspects not being actually popular nwadays, like higher learning curve, obscure mechanics if not resorting to external sites, extensively and repetitive grinding.

Maybe Eiryl is missing the point that not many new players are coming to game aiming for building primes, for example.

Many would be ok by having one or a couple of jobs at 99, maybe clearing stories, maybe farming one 119 REMA.

The very OP is actually complaining about the same thing Eiryl is insinuating: there is a generational clash between veterans and newer players, what generally would result in frustrations for both parties.

Maybe not having that many expectations for each side, i suppose

honestly this isn't even a new player issue and could of been better stated as "if you want todo endgame step up your game". plenty of long term players play more casually and they aren't far off from a lot of newer players in quality. A good example a player I've known for years joined my sortie group for a run on a rema brd and was doing 8 songs each time, 4 dummies 4 real, I suggested to them they take the time to learn to just sing 6 songs as its overall faster and gets real buffs out faster when needed, their response was along the lines of I'm not doing that I'm casual and its not a reasonable expectation. Then I have had people who have been playing brd for a couple weeks and only have 3 songs and Ghorn and I mention just singing 4 songs and eventually 6 songs with empy horn they jump at the new knowledge and better play.

Theres also that other MMOs have a smoother introduction to its mechanics/getting into content, XI tries but theres many gaps that rely on asking others, and servers arent as populated as they once were, so the average current day player will just be lost and become frustrated.

And thats for those who have any desire to work their way up, most just wanna start the acct, and get into current stuff, which here is largely endgame, and for XI that is either sidestepped, or its miserable compared to how other MMOs get you going.


This part is forever though, theres just less people to carry the dd only players, along with the constant stigma that the barrier to entry on these jobs is sky high. Brd needs HM, 4 songs etc, geo needs idris, whm needs yag, cor needs +7 etc.

These arent required but if a new player asks what they need for those jobs especially brd, its the top stuff over everything else atleast from my exp in some socials, and who wants to start their brd life doing the grind for remas just to be "acceptable" when they can just be naeg dd #7530

I don't really understand the importance of this one. I'm rarely the last person buffing before the pull, so the extra few seconds are lost waiting on someone else anyway. Beyond that point, you're just overwriting songs so there's not uptime lost. This could probably be useful against dispel spam, but uptime in those encounters is bunk anyway.

The tip about delaying nitro to extend SV a few minutes is much higher impact for BRD imo

The way we run sortie means we often fight while buffing and the songs will fully wear off often mid run, so for our runs the time lost to the extra songs and lack of buffs does add up.

From my experience back when I was a "new" player getting into endgame 1-2 years ago, I can agree that BRD is definitely just sort of out of reach to someone that would want to participate in endgame that's up to a long-term player's standards. Putting up that wall of get 3-4 REMA or GTFO is rather discouraging, and at least from what I saw there was usually a lifer BRD already there that already had the stuff.

I also sort of understand the situation from the other perspective. I've played essentially every relevant MMO on the market. A solo/new player can generally expect to advance playing a DPS (DD) job/class in basically any other game. It might be slower to find groups and they might have to wait around a bit, but you can full-time DD in WoW, XIV, Guild Wars 2, Elder Scrolls Online, LotRO, SWTOR, etc and expect to get somewhere reasonably fast, particularly if you find a guild (linkshell) to organize groups with. I think Lost Ark was the most painful, given that it's a Korean MMO with near-infinite grindy vertical scaling that doesn't ever really "reset". Of course, a big part of this for most of those games is that they're either horizontal (peak power is achieved rather fast and stays there forever) or explicitly seasonal (player power is kept at about a 20-30% band for each content tier with catchup provided at the next content tier). I understand that the appeal of XI to people that stick around past the credits of RoV to actually play the game is that it's explicitly not either of these things and your character can sort of grow forever like the world's slowest version of Diablo, but that does sort of lead to the current situation of the game too for someone trying to get into it. XI's absurd support buff circlejerk is probably the other factor, particularly in modern XI where most of the supports are also reasonable 2/3rds DDs too once geared. Needs to be someone paying their dues and playing the unwanted roles, as it were. I'm not saying either of these are bad things, more just endemic to the game and part of how it is the way it is and the appeal to the people still around, but they are explanations.

I don't exactly know the end point of what I'm getting at here, more that I understand why the situation is like it is. It doesn't help that XI pretty much only "teaches" a new player how to be a solo melee DD in leveling/questing content on a new account (and that's being carried by Trusts if anything), so that's the way they'll transition into real content if they hit cap and want to stick around. I was a player that was actually savvy and willing to flex around, and I think the first time I actually "learned" to play WHM was either in a Dyna-D W1/2 farm or some Omen runs in a LS. Maybe it was an Ambuscade V1D run, I don't remember fully. I didn't learn how to tank on PLD until another Omen run some time later with a different LS. Pretty much all content before that is either trivial with Trusts or best/expected to be done solo on a sturdy DD like WAR or DRG. A new player isn't going to actually "play the game" until either Omen or V1N+ Ambuscade, and guides mostly just point out gearsets to make and with a few exceptions (WHM was good for this) don't really tell you what your gameplay is. For melee DD that's fine, it's just hit the enemy, use your JAs when they're up, spam WS, but for supports you have to dig around a lot to find out what a proper buff setup actually looks like or just sort of absorb it via osmosis like I did watching what the RDM, COR, and BRD were doing in Sortie.

I ultimately experienced what I wanted out of XI and walked away for now, since the logical next step for me was getting a Yagrush and I just... Didn't find the process fun and wasn't going to play a game I wasn't having fun in, but I felt like offering my perspective as a relatively recent new player that advanced to some Dynamis W2, Gaol bosses (not high level ones, just some attempts on lower level ones), and Sortie basement stuff purely off of my willingness to play WHM and how I ended up actually pretty good at it.

Okay, I would agree with this. 30-second videos, idle mobile games, and titles like Fortnight that provide instant results. Hell, my kids can't even handle a 20-minute car ride without a cell phone distraction. Attention spans and critical thinking have ebbed. So yeah, I could see how not wanting to grind for endgame gear, and a general lack of effort could be a prevalent issue.

I’ve been helping new players in FFXI for nearly 20 years, even back when I wasn’t at the max level. I’m still not taking on the hardest content in the game, but I lead a linkshell that’s always willing to assist new players, up to a point.

There’s only so much time in a day to guide someone you barely know through older content. I’ve spent days helping players, only for them to disappear without a word. No thanks, no goodbyes, no explanations. Then there are those who are polite and follow your advice, but lack the motivation or time to really push through the game.

For a new player, FFXI can feel like a very lonely experience, especially if you don’t have a friend or family member playing alongside you. On a server like Cerberus, you rarely see others out in the field. Everyone’s so far ahead, and catching up to the point where you can participate in group content feels overwhelming. This is where the developers are at fault. They’ve made quality of life updates, but the sheer amount of time it takes to solo your way (without multiboxing or external help) to reach a point where you’re viable for group content is still too much.

Many new players end up resorting to RMT and Merc services just to get things like job points, because no one forms those parties anymore. New players are willing to put in the effort, but imagine doing everything we did back then together, completely on your own. The storylines are enjoyable, but the grinding and money-making are an exhausting amount of work. Most modern games don’t ask that of you anymore. They’ve become far more accommodating, conditioning younger players to expect some kind of help along the way.

I see the struggle on both sides. Only a small portion of new players will have the time and drive to stick around for months, joining events and gearing up properly. Most will struggle and eventually give up, which is a shame because the game would be much better if it were more accessible. But the issue is, any shortcuts SE could add would likely be exploited by RMT, further damaging the economy and making things worse for genuine players.

A lot of FFXI players are older now. We had more free time back in the day with fewer distractions. We pay every month to play this MMORPG, and new players often find themselves relying on trusts for long periods just so they can eventually be accepted into groups. The system has been broken for a long time, but SE won’t fix it. As much as veteran players like myself would love to help everyone, we can only do so much.

This has always been how things have been - even if they actually did have well geared DD's.

SE needs to step up and start helping their communities out by listening to them and making necessary QOL changes instead of expecting things to just smoove over. Im pretty sure if they did any census they would see the sortie event was a failure and they do need to adjust the content and current goalposts. But they don't care and want the game to fail.

I suppose its nice that 95% of the player base actually want to put effort in!

Obviously the guy who made the WoW post got it backwards.

SE isn't going to read our posts for ideas, they read their metrics.

The metric says lots of new players are joining the game. The reality is that lots of old players are making new alts for their multibox setups, but SE doesn't know the difference. So they cater to all these 'new' players and we get *** like Primed for Adventure.

Good luck trying to get people to turn their wallets down so SE will actually hear us...

At the same time... the amount of people playing 6 man content with their alts and multi-boxing isn't growing the game either. There ARE people out there who would participate and eventually get better, they just aren't to your expectations.

I have had people make similar complaints about me, If its sortie I am gonna expect some one geared to the same level as my group as its the newest content same goes for v20/25 ody fights, bellow that I expect people to be geared for the content they're going too. A lot of players want to skip the line in progression and if you can do it. It's also no ones job but your own to make your progression happen. so if you wanna do omen but ody in sparks gear I am gonna tell you to go farm older content.

Free piece of advice for everyone. You know who gets ***? People who organize and create groups for what they want. If you're unwilling to organize you get the left overs of those who do.