|
|
Most Worthless Moves In FFXI?
By Homsar 2024-10-09 14:26:40
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »I'm sure I forgot about some extremely niche use for some of these, but IMO these spells are all either entirely useless or so incredibly niche that setting them or casting them is just being inefficient for the sake of fun.
Power Attack
Helldive
Blood Drain
Claw Cyclone
Poison Breath
Bomb Toss
Smite of Rage
Digest
Jet Stream
MP Drainkiss
Venom Shell
Mandibular Bite
Awful Eye
Blood Saber
Flying Hip Press
Spiral Spin
Seedspray
1000 Needles
Body Slam
Hydro Shot
Corrosive Ooze
Warm-Up
Ram Charge
Final Sting
Vapor Spray
Thunder Breath
Pyric Bulwark
Bloodrake
Foul Waters
Blistering Roar
Crashing Thunder
Sweeping Gauge
Nectarous Deluge
Palling Salvo
Cesspool
Add these to your list, or someone come defend the time they set one of these killer traits instead of something actually useful.
IIRC, Sweeping Gouge can be useful during solo because of the DEF down.
 Carbuncle.Maletaru
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2676
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-10-09 14:30:50
IIRC, Sweeping Gouge can be useful during solo because of the DEF down.
16% def down. This is a level 99 spell meaning it's competing with Tenebral Crush (20%), Tourbillion (33%), Bilgestorm (25%).
I guess if you are trying to avoid aoe and are solo...maybe...?
By Homsar 2024-10-09 14:48:41
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »IIRC, Sweeping Gouge can be useful during solo because of the DEF down.
16% def down. This is a level 99 spell meaning it's competing with Tenebral Crush (20%), Tourbillion (33%), Bilgestorm (25%).
I guess if you are trying to avoid aoe and are solo...maybe...?
I haven't played on retail in over a year, but IIRC, Gouge casts much faster and costs less MP than Tenebral. Tourb and Bilge are Unbridled Spells, so they'd typically cede precedence to MG.
 Cerberus.Kylos
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4473
By Cerberus.Kylos 2024-10-09 15:15:59
1. Charm / Gauge
2. Modus Veritas
3. Unlimited / Flashy / Stealth Shot
4. Assassin's Charge / Warrior's Charge
5. Concentric Pulse
6. Tranquility / Equanimity
7. Smiting Breath
8. Scholar's / Avenger's / Courser's
9. Boost/Gain/Absorb-CHR
10. Aspir Samba
11. Odin
12. Astral Flow Blood Pacts
(minus Clarsach Call, Altana's Favor & Perfect Defense)
13. Level ? Holy
14. Brave Hero Glenn
15. Deodorize
16. Many BLU spells (look at Maletaru's list to agree/dispute)
17. Enspell II
Was going to include the bard songs, but I know some of those get used as dummy songs, which gives them a practical use even if by themselves they are never/rarely used.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2676
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-10-09 15:20:31
Was going to include the bard songs, but I know some of those get used as dummy songs, which gives them a practical use even if by themselves they are never/rarely used.
Only if you're playing BRD wrong. Sorry, couldn't help but this is just a dumb play by lazy people who are doing it wrong. There's never a reason to cast these songs unless you suck at controlling your character.
You should probably also add the CHR etudes, if we're doing a category of CHR spells.
By Mavii 2024-10-09 15:23:05
Gouge is cheaper in both MP and set points. I tend to favor it for solo def down. Also single target when that matters.
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »Has anyone ever cast Bomb Toss for damage? Is someone setting it for the 2 STR? Digging WAY back in my memory here but iirc Bomb Toss and Blastbomb were staples for the PCC bcnm if you went BLU.
Anyway I agree that there's a lot of BLU spells that are crap and have little or no meaningful value, especially out of the oldest spells. What this started from pages back was that even within that list Hydro Shot stands out as worst in class.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2676
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-10-09 15:30:49
OTOH, Tenebral Crush gives Macc trait, does more damage, & is AoE (if you're into that kind of thing).
Definitely depends on the use case. I'd agree that Gouge probably has some use when soloing specifically, though I still think the times where you need to avoid aoe specifically and are going to run out of MP while solo are...rare...?
I guess for non-Tizona owning BLU who are farming CP and not pulling the non-aggressive mobs out of a pile and not killing them fast enough for their spawn rates, Gouge is a better defense down. After this discussion, I don't think it truly belongs with all the other trash.
My point was that spells are a can of worms.
How often is Esuna practical? I can't think of a scenario where Misery outdoes Solace while also being debuffed by multiple debuffs that aren't stun/terror/silence and also willing to get your *** beat for it.
Could probably throw all of Afflatus: Misery in there.
[+]
By Nariont 2024-10-09 15:45:55
I dont think its aged great but still has its uses for non-yags. Misery was nice for the odd atk downs, bios, slows etc but it always came with the drawback of the whm has to be enfeebled too, the whm is usually among the highest in meva so if one is to resist, it would be the whm, always bugged me about it, and this was before malig/ody/sortie where the meva gaps were pretty wide.
I think cura is still one of the most mp efficent so there is that. Cureskin on solace is still just so good to have at the ready, woulda been nice if they applied something similar to the cura lines to balance out the defensive aspect, high single target solace ss or smaller but aoe cura misery ones
 Phoenix.Iocus
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1607
By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-10-09 15:48:30
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »What's the use case for Gain-CHR? RDM using Dancing Edge?
All the Enspell IIs Gain-CHR is only good for waltz potency and the only fight that really benefits from you being good at curing waltz is Alexander...after he full dispels you. So pretty hard dud there since that's not what you're going to spend your MP on when you just lost it all.
Enspell IIs are about Haste Samba and another buff for Naegling. Real low man stuff like SR bosses that can take more than a couple WSs and your trusts are going to find a way to die to the shark or tree. So pretty terrible but I'd still rather have them than not. Obviously they could be much better.
By Tarage 2024-10-09 15:48:41
I continue to say that CHR in general is just garbage. Remove it from the game and you lose next to nothing.
Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2024-10-09 23:08:01
It's been a long time, but I am pretty sure I've used Enspell II over I on RDM in Sealed Fate Master Trial, as a low-TP feed option. IIRC, Enspell 2 put out more damage in a single round than Enspell II did, and you were trying to eliminate multi attacks altogether to keep TP down. Might be an obsolete strat now, but that's the only scenario I've used Enspell II for.
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 97
By Bahamut.Drumskull 2024-10-10 00:57:52
Hard disagree. Swipe is used a lot for magic burst Sortie strategies. It's an easy 15k+ dmg, if geared right. I did a quick search of my logs, and here are the highest Swipes I've done on Sortie Basement bosses. Code [19:49:35]Martel uses Swipe.Magic Burst! Triboulex takes 89666 points of damage.
[20:36:08]Martel uses Swipe.Magic Burst! Dhartok takes 80560 points of damage.
[20:04:37]Martel uses Swipe.Magic Burst! Gartell takes 76872 points of damage.
[19:38:40]Martel uses Swipe.Magic Burst! Aita takes 73975 points of damage. These are the record high damage values, so of course, My averages wouldn't be nearly so good. The damage is massively affected by how badly you get nukewalled. Manage to slip it in there between vollies just right, and the dmg can be pretty high.
The really frustrating thing about Swipe and lunge is the recast. Well, and the rune maintenance. You're only getting one set per sortie boss unless things go very wrong.
I only have 1 MBII Item for my Rune MATB SET only the ongo hands R20 but my lunge dont capp every time but around 40-80k il look into it to get Higher Swipe damages or maybe becasue i pull prior to wizard rolls?.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 515
By Asura.Thunderjet 2024-10-10 00:59:16
I have actually and justifiably been asked to not use Drain and Aspir Sambas as a joke because the effects make it impossible to see just about anything. They're definitely worse than useless. Man i havent seen titan Rock throws for years lol
By Kadokawa 2024-10-10 06:11:26
Most Worthless Move must be Energy Drain for thief.
Cerberus.Kylos
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4473
By Cerberus.Kylos 2024-10-10 06:39:38
Most Worthless Move must be Energy Drain for thief.
It is mostly a Red Mage or Bard (with mage sub) thing as you level up. I want to highly consider Energy Steal, because it is only 25 dagger skill less than Energy Drain, which is better... so even if you wanted to use it, it's only viable for 5-6 levels.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 605
By Asura.Melliny 2024-10-10 08:33:26
Energy Drain is an abyssea red proc weaponskill. Not many people care about abyssea nowadays, but if nothing else you use it there.
[+]
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 194
By Sylph.Timepassesbye 2024-10-10 11:23:15
Additionally, with how useful going /blm can be in dynamis for thief putting TH on mobs, energy drain is quite helpful for getting your mp back when aspir falls short due to having too low skill.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 194
By Sylph.Timepassesbye 2024-10-10 11:31:52
I've seen a fair few abilities/spells on this list that are what I'd consider progression abilities/spells, so while they might have lost their usefulness in end game content, they still had a use when leveling and I feel they should be discounted from this list.
kylos made a list of things, and I'm inclined to agree with most of them. I would argue against aspir samba because I'd consider that a progression ability and is obsolete because of how prevalent refresh sources have become, not because the ability itself is useless. I do recognize this mentality does excuse other things like warrior/assassin charge, but those were both quite weak when they came out.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4089
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2024-10-10 11:37:17
Aspir Samba is def useless, even at low levels
What situation would you be using Aspir Samba over Drain or Haste Samba? Bear in mind, I'm pretty sure the target also has to have MP for Aspir Samba to do anything, its not a "convert dmg to mp". You'd probably restore more MP /healing for a few seconds vs what you'd get from Aspir Samba.
Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2024-10-10 13:38:43
Just checked, the mob does in fact need to have MP for it to work, which limits usefulness. I can't think of any native magic casters that would be subbing dnc to even access this, let alone any use as a DNC main.
Honestly, Drain/Aspir Samba would have been a better set of abilities for a DRK (Endrain, Enaspir, to go along with Endark and Endark II). It already aligns with their spell line, and players could alternate between En-spell types based on their needs. Would have also made an interesting pairing to go with Schere Earring (which I suppose still could work minimally as DRK/dnc as an enmity reduction tool).
The ability makes almost no sense from a job perspective on DNC main. Terrible.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 605
By Asura.Melliny 2024-10-10 13:48:02
This really is a pointless one isn't it. Does anything in the game detect by scent? A few mobs track by scent, but only a couple. And those mobs always track by sound too.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2024-10-10 13:57:41
The idea being you sleep, sneak, deodorize so you can get away.
They'll will never stop chasing you no matter what you do, unless you deodorize(Or run through water) I assume, never cared about using the spell in actual practice. Needing to get away from mobs is antiquated. Sleep/break last multiple minutes. But wasn't always.
Shiva.Thorny
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2850
By Shiva.Thorny 2024-10-10 14:02:20
They'll will never stop chasing you no matter what you do, unless you deodorize (I assume, never cared about using the spell in actual practice)
Pretty much, scent tracking mobs will not deaggro based on distance without deodorize. Crossing water works, though.
Edit: derp, looks like you edited as i responded
[+]
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2024-10-10 14:03:55
Does deodorize block blood aggro?
Smelling blood is how it should work.
Skeletons don't have noses... but they don't have ears or eyes either so...
By Nariont 2024-10-10 14:07:41
This really is a pointless one isn't it. Does anything in the game detect by scent? A few mobs track by scent, but only a couple. And those mobs always track by sound too.
It was primarily for losing aggro, but then you gotta consider how long it took to cast these back then, but gobs were track by sight/scent, orcs were the same iirc, yags were sight, quadavs sound+scent. Probably some non-beastman examples but yeah, nothing aggro'd by scent alone iirc
Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2024-10-10 14:27:37
Nothing aggros by scent, but Deoderize doesn't stop aggro, it stops tracking. As Thorny mentioned, running over a puddle of water (or running during rainy weather) will cause monsters that have aggrod you to lose scent and stop chasing you. The spell/medicine (Deodorizer) is not completely useless, except for the fact that most players dont know how to use it.
On THF, hide works to remove hate from mobs that track by sight. This can also be accomplished by creating enough distance between you and the mob. Similarly, you can pop a Deodorizer (medicine) or cast the spell after enough distance is between you and the mob, and it will not be able to follow you based on scent. Sometimes I carry the medicine and use it on THF after popping flee.
It has very little use nowadays if you are careful, but back in the day when travelling, it was somewhat useful (if you knew how to use it). Imagine back then travelling to one of those extremely far exp camps, only to die without RR and have to walk all the way back. Then you finally get there and the party disbands. How disheartening. Wouldn't it have been nice if you could have dropped all that aggro with a simple spell or medicine? Lol.
edit: I haven't tested it, but I wonder if SCH casting Rainstorm gives the same effect as Deodorize.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3297
By Fenrir.Skarwind 2024-10-10 14:51:17
Nothing aggros by scent, but Deoderize doesn't stop aggro, it stops tracking. As Thorny mentioned, running over a puddle of water (or running during rainy weather) will cause monsters that have aggrod you to lose scent and stop chasing you. The spell/medicine (Deodorizer) is not completely useless, except for the fact that most players dont know how to use it.
On THF, hide works to remove hate from mobs that track by sight. This can also be accomplished by creating enough distance between you and the mob. Similarly, you can pop a Deodorizer (medicine) or cast the spell after enough distance is between you and the mob, and it will not be able to follow you based on scent. Sometimes I carry the medicine and use it on THF after popping flee.
It has very little use nowadays if you are careful, but back in the day when travelling, it was somewhat useful (if you knew how to use it). Imagine back then travelling to one of those extremely far exp camps, only to die without RR and have to walk all the way back. Then you finally get there and the party disbands. How disheartening. Wouldn't it have been nice if you could have dropped all that aggro with a simple spell or medicine? Lol.
edit: I haven't tested it, but I wonder if SCH casting Rainstorm gives the same effect as Deodorize.
It felt useless because early game literally had no movement+ buffs. So while you could outrun aggro via pathing mechanics; every time I stopped to cast it or use an item resulted in a monster catching up to me and smacking me lmao.
I usually just booked it toward water or a zone line. Bind changes this quite a bit, but on IT+ you were still better off running.
The rainstorm thing is interesting.
[+]
By Lili 2024-10-10 16:47:20
Best way to passive-aggressively tell someone that they stink.
[+]
By Kasaioni 2024-10-10 17:03:53
There was one Ambuscade V1 a while ago I remember healing in Misery and using Esuna because it was best to stay close to the party and get hit with the debuffs. I forget which one it was though.
Phoenix.Capuchin
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3628
By Phoenix.Capuchin 2024-10-10 18:18:28
Energy Drain is an abyssea red proc weaponskill. Not many people care about abyssea nowadays, but if nothing else you use it there.
Yep, very common use for me. I also frequently use Energy Drain for Omen magical WS objective on any job that can use it. If you want a mob to live LONGER (like a Transcended, to spam a lot of WS on it fast), using a WS that does no damage is great.
As the title suggests, I'm looking to concoct a list of FFXI moves that are so ineffective they might as well not exist. However, I'm only adding moves that can be adequately explained as to why they are worthless at least 95% of the time. There are always going to be niche uses for some moves. Let's take Steal on Thief for example. It may not see as much use in 2024 as it did back in the day, but it remains useful for stealing buffs and Impish Boxes.
I'd like to begin with Modus Veritas on Scholar. Heavily abused back when introduced, SE nerfed it so hard that nobody has used it for anything meaningful ever since.
Description: Increases damage done by helix spells while lowering spell duration by 50%.
If the ability lands, the DoT effect of the Helix will be doubled, and the remaining duration will be halved. Resist rate is high even on regular enemies, and extremely high on NMs. Modus Veritas will always fail if the current potency of the Helix effect is 5,000 or higher.
There are two reasons why Veritas became useless.
1) The resist rate is so high on everything, and even more so for NM (the prime target for putting a Helix on), that it doesn't work most of the time.
2) It only makes sense to use on a low damage Helix. Scholars aim for a Helix effect of 10k, which is the cap. Therefore, if a player hit a 4k Helix and then used Modus Veritas, they would get a 8k Helix for with a lower duration. But that's only if it lands. Most Scholars would prefer to Magic Burst another Helix to cap, or at least get close to capping.
Does it have any use? Perhaps. When a player is in a situation where setting up a skillchain to Magic Burst isn't viable, then they could nuke a Helix and boost it further with Modus, but that only makes sense if the target won't last for a long time, and if they know it won't resist, which it probably will, so why bother? I'm not clued up on the most advanced endgame strategies in Odyssey, so maybe it has found some use somewhere? Feel free to confirm it has. Please be encouraged to add your own moves here with an explanation. Thank you.
Edit: This is the list I made from the comments. Please know that it is subjective, and some of the moves may still be viable in exceptionally rare scenarios.
1. Charm / Gauge
2. Modus Veritas
3. Unlimited / Flashy / Stealth Shot
4. Assassin's Charge / Warrior's Charge
5. Concentric Pulse
6. Tranquility / Equanimity
7. Smiting Breath
8. Scholar's / Avenger's / Courser's Roll
9. Any CHR boosting spells and songs
10. Aspir Samba
11. Odin
12. Astral Flow Blood Pacts
(minus Clarsach Call, Altana's Favor & Perfect Defense)
13. Level ? Holy
14. Brave Hero Glenn
15. Deodorize
16. Many BLU spells (look at Maletaru's list to agree/dispute)
17. Enspell II
|
|
