Segments Are Pain

I'm heading to bed soon, but if someone could tell me what job I need to play to not be carried, I would appreciate laughing at your response in the morning!

I have.

Some of the best players I know are 100% vanilla and controller players. In fact the players I am thinking of are all in an Odyssey static together with the entire group 100% vanilla.

Stick that in your brain and watch it explode.

If they hadn't added Foil to the last MLs I would have been happy to say that MLs don't matter. And they don't for Odyssey. MLs are just easy mode for low skill newbs or whatever you want me to have said to get people all riled up. Enjoy.

As soon as you can use a subjob for something hard again, my brain immediately asks if I want that accessibility? Is Foil going to let me play in a way that I will enjoy or will matter? I'm not PLD/RUN for Aminon, so no, but our PLD does have Foil and if I was our PLD, I would have Foil. RDM/RUN probably not. DRG/RUN has refresh native but multipurpose instead of defensive, no fun to be had here. After my favorite 2 jobs and the obvious of PLD for Foil usage, then it become a lot more utilitarian. Is there new content with rewards I want that another job /RUN would get me? If yes then start leveling, if no then ML 30s is as high as it needs to go.


This is easily true. I did my first 2 mythics by salvage and they were Murgleis and Gastraphetes. There is no way I'd have made the other 5 and either of the Ergon Weapons without ambuscade. I'd definitely have Excalibur since I had that before Adoulin but a lot of other relics, probably not.

But the same could be said about jobs. I wouldn't have half of the jobs I have now if they didn't add wardrobes 5-8. As much as they are not expanding end game at the rate we'd like them to, they are making the restrictions to play "the rest of the game" that might not have been accessible without them adding QoL updates that help players across the board.

The devs:


I suppose something with computer science could help setting up those luas.

I mean, JP very rarely use any add-ons or TPS, if at all. They've cleared most/all content vanilla as seen on their videos. And I still play some jobs vanilla, like MNK/THF/BST, because it feels easier for my style of play. I'm not bragging, but I've absolutely cleared every Gaol boss as a vanilla player up to v25 minus Bumba. Every Sortie boss minus Aminon vanilla. And I'm an average player at best

Anyways, I think people overestimate how much of a disadvantage a vanilla player has vs a GS user. Obviously the latter is superior, but vanilla players can do every single piece of content just fine with slightly more preparation. For instance, I knew a player who used txt files to extend the lines of his macros instead of using the game's 6 lines. He was an extremely good player and almost always parsed the highest in DD jobs, but also played tank and mages very well. Just because you yourself don't personally see yourself doing it, doesn't mean others can't. It's completely possible

There are other reasons no JP with third party tools posts videos, and it's the same reason most NA videos you see are from a "vanilla" person's perspective, regardless everyone else using addons.

Let's not pretend all or even most JP players are vanilla.

Im sorry dawg, but if you think JP are vanilla purists who dont cheat, I got a bridge to sell you.

I don’t like commenting anymore here, because you and others (that are sleeping, good night Male ^ ^) just like to take 5 words out of a couple hundreds words post and go on a toxic meme triad. The sentence right after was something along “don’t get me wrong, most vanilla players are very talented player” but totally skipped that. Never claimed Male was a dude that get carried, but he went with that. Dismissing , antagonisms, toxicity at every 2 words thrown together. Also, at the end of my post, I also said I am worried about your mental health guys, and I mean it.

Male, before you answer, enjoy a cup of coffee please.

And no I’m not gonna answer past this post, already spend too much time here

I don't drink coffee, but good morning!


I quoted an entire paragraph of your post...I read the whole thing, of course, but only quoted the part I was responding to. This is what I always do because it keeps the conversation a bit tighter and avoids making it too spammy.

You don't have to worry about my mental health, though I appreciate your concern. I'm perfectly healthy and FFXI (including this site) have no negative effects on me. I enjoy these conversations and learn a lot.


I'm glad you put the vanilla in quotes here because I've never seen a video from the perspective of anyone who was remotely close to vanilla. Every high-end clear I've ever seen had at least 5 visible and noticeable addons. You're right that generally people avoid Anchor/Tako/Cureplease (though some don't), but there are vanishingly few (English speaking), if any, video creators who post actual vanilla content.

I mean that makes sense, obviously, because very few people are PLAYING vanilla so obviously very few people are going to post vanilla content. I'm not saying more people should post vanilla, just pointing out those quotes are doing a lot of heavy lifting.

I mean.. Gav doubted a pure vanilla group of players could beat end game content, and I happen to know one that does.

Don't really see how that's toxic, whatever that means.

Is that like a bandwagon phrase for I don't like what you're saying?

Picking people's statements apart so you can talk or not talk about what you like is standard forum fare. The only difference here is the specificity that FFXI lends itself to because it's a weird and old game. At the end of the day, the one thing I know about everyone here is that I can trust you have good taste in video games because FFXI isn't for everyone.

*bad taste

This game require from you to programm a file to let you change equipment depend on spell/ja/ws, furthermore to make macros manually, and if you are a vanila player, you have to type lines of equipsets and wait /ja,/ma and /ws in all macros. and still complain that 200 equipsets are not enough.

is there any other game that have all of the above requirements to play a job?

I feel this is the main thing that keep new players from FFXI.

Most MMOs have something similar, TBH. If you think endgame WoW raiders are just installing the game and walking into the raids, you're sorely mistaken.


Making macros is braindead simple, a 10 year old could do it.

I think 200 equipsets are fine unless you're going to play 15+ jobs at a very high level and, as much as people love to claim otherwise, I don't think there are many (if any) players who routinely play 15+ jobs on the same character at endgame level.

If you reach the point where you're playing 22 jobs with equipsets, I guess you can logout and load more from the server, but I'd say this applies to < 0.1% of players.

That's why its good.

Billion dollar companies run and continually bring out new mmorpgs, yet a 24 year old ps2 game is not only still in operation but has as $12 subscription model that 30-40k+ people still pay.

How does this game still manage to keep so many of us paying to play, when we can easily go play anything else? Cause it perfectly appeals to nerds with a high tolerance for hard progression, it has a niche it so perfectly appeals to that no matter how hard companies (and even Square Enix themselves with 14) try to appeal to us we are still here.

Everything about this game is perfectly aimed at a decent sized niche audience with money, even the addon community is nerd porn that is incredibly appealing and adds value to the game. Ironically, the JP community being so anti addon actually hurts it more than helps it, because it adds a whole other level of complexity and autismo nerd appeal.

There have been times when I wasn't even actively playing, and I was still subbed cause I was making a mod or addon for the game and spent hundreds of hours making and testing it.


Keeping the hardcore audience that love it, and have stuck with it for 20 years is more important than appealing to some new group players that will never really put up with all the other hardcore things in the game anyway. Also new nerds are born every day, so there will always be new people coming in that appreciate it for what it is.

FFXI is like spicy chicken wings, and someone asking why they can't just make it less spicy to appeal to more customers. Burning your mouth is the point, if they try compete with KFC they will lose.

Sunk-cost fallacy.

I haven't play FFXI for many years, but back in 2018-2020 when I still played I used to post gameplay videos and I played on vanilla.

That being said, my cor solo(with trusts) videos had way more views than group content. Even though some of the techniques used in groups, like casting Esuna in the middle of mob animation so it lands a few frames after status ailments land isn't exactly easier to pull off than solo with trusts. Most viewers seem to enjoy solo videos more.

I don't know if solo videos counts as "high end" videos from your perspective though. I generally did hardcore events with LS but I don't record gameplay with LS. I don't think the playskill required in a very organized LS event is any higher than trying to solo contents.

In Most of the organized LS event people will tell you what to do, so you just follow the command and it'll be done if all 6 people are geared and organized. The toughest part of the hardest content is to find 6 competent people and organize them, it's less about individual player reaction speed since this is not FFXIV. There are more things that I need to pay attention to when I play alone without help.

So I don't think "hard content videos" can be an indication of personal skill imo. It depends on jobs and what you really do in that particular fight.

Edit: Case to the point, I cleared master trials when it was the hardest content by doing 2 rolls and watch 2 other DD skillchain spam. What an exciting way to show off playskills in the "hardest content". You definitely don't need windower nor any add-on to do THAT.