Oathsworn Blade Master Trial - Cleared
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Oathsworn Blade Master Trial - Cleared
Wonder if PUP could hold Teodor
And be useless for everything else, lowering the dps below minimum requirement.
Asura.Eiryl said: » And be useless for everything else, lowering the dps below minimum requirement. You also said that Shiraj's group would never clear with Ranger for DPS. I'm not saying anything about PUP, I just wanted to point that out.
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They had absolutely zero shot. Until the devs nerfed it.
Still correct.
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Ovalidal said: » 2024-05-13 04:54:52 "The evasion rate for monsters appearing in the Oathsworn Blade battlefield has been lowered." The fight was nerfed. I'm not sure how relevent this will wind up being, but whoever predicted nerfs earlier in this thread, you called it. Asura.Eiryl said: » 2024-02-26 00:48:01 Ranger was the strat for what should have been 15 seconds before they realized there was absolutely no shot in hell of doing that much damage. Notice how I didn't say anything about it after Feb and the nerf was in May. Try harder. Asura.Eiryl said: » Ovalidal said: » 2024-05-13 04:54:52 "The evasion rate for monsters appearing in the Oathsworn Blade battlefield has been lowered." The fight was nerfed. I'm not sure how relevent this will wind up being, but whoever predicted nerfs earlier in this thread, you called it. Asura.Eiryl said: » 2024-02-26 00:48:01 Ranger was the strat for what should have been 15 seconds before they realized there was absolutely no shot in hell of doing that much damage. Notice how I didn't say anything about it after Feb and the nerf was in May. Try harder. You haven't looked up anything about the fight since February then either. It was a nothing nerf, and likewise.
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Asura.Eiryl said: » They had absolutely zero shot. Until the devs nerfed it. Still correct. Tell me you're trolling without overtly saying you're trolling Eiryl is a *** moron #1:
Asura.Eiryl said: » Ranger was the strat for what should have been 15 seconds before they realized there was absolutely no shot in hell of doing that much damage. Eiryl is a *** moron #2: Asura.Eiryl said: » If he were half as skilled he'd have stopped trying an obviously unwinnable strat, and won, correct. Failing to stuff the square into the starshaped hole repeatedly ain't where it's at. Making me look bad, I said it'd be beaten already and they're *** around on ranger. Jfc, there's almost too many to choose from for what should be #3 up until...2000 posts to sift through. Eiryl is a *** moron #3: Asura.Eiryl said: » If you're actually still using rangers and run, then everything he just said is true. You think it's impossible, because it is. To use rangers on. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you changed strats after only needing one attempt to see that. Someone else copy-paste that other quote that basically shut Eiryl up for a few days because it was just so brutally honest about what a sad sack of ***Eiryl is in real life. Edit: Oh look, I called it back then too. Ranoutofspace said: » [...] Eiryl just has to get involved in every thread when he is irrelevant. You don't even play the game so why do you need to fill the threads with useless comments like...pretty much everything you've ever written here? You have 16,000 posts of cringe on here.
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I get so hot and bothered when my fans bring up post counts, I can only get so erect.
Now remember, it's you *** the thread up, and I'm only replying to it. so when you go bitching whining and crying about me doing this, look in the mirror. Asura.Eiryl said: » I get so hot and bothered when my fans bring up post counts, I can only get so erect. Now remember, it's you *** the thread up, and I'm only replying to it. so when you go bitching whining and crying about me doing this, look in the mirror. 
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Ovalidal said: » You also said that Shiraj's group would never clear with Ranger for DPS. This is a perfectly reasonable take, if you had taken Shiraj's group at their word at the time. Since they are the ones doing RNG setup, and they outlined how much progress they were able to make with it, one could reasonably conclude RNG setup was not the way to win. It is well known by anyone versed in FFXI mechanics that melee setups have vastly more damage potential than RNG setups. The reason that people mistakenly concluded RNG wasn't the way forward is because this exact group told us how far they could get before timeout with RNG. We assumed they were already doing everything correctly at the time, but that clearly was not the case, or there wouldn't have been potential to add that much damage. I will agree that the patch was nothing for their strategy, since they rely on SV the whole fight. Whatever evasion nerf was done is irrelevant, because SV would've capped accuracy with or without it. Pile on Eiryl all you want, his conclusion was completely reasonable based on the information this group put forward. It turned out to be wrong, because apparently their initial attempts were not particularly well-optimized.
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Just to provide some examples:
Shiraj said: But I still had a bit of hope it was doable until we had a run where we maintained Soul Voice songs for 40? minutes of the 50 minute attempt and still no where near a dps check that bad. Shiraj said: Hard to say in theory. But as things stand with ranged setup, we would need an extra 14 million damage to beat the fight. Which leads me back to my previous points a while ago, I don't see it being beatable unless a proc mechanic is found to deal with the aura, let alone the regen. Shiraj said: we cannot get to Teodor consistently, It takes so much damn luck paired with really good player execution. We need specific adds to spawn in certain order AND needing a wild card reset just to have a chance to see Teodor with at least 5 minutes remaining. Obviously these turned out to be false. They did not noticeably change their strategy, so there were huge inefficiencies in buff selection or hover shot application or hate control or whatever going on. Someone who took them at face value wouldn't have known that, because they didn't tell us any of that. They made it out to be impossible with RNG; hence the obvious response is to believe it is impossible with RNG, rather than assuming they were doing things wrong.
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I don't want to rehash a debate over how to clear a MT that's already been cleared, but just a couple of searches and you would have found that several other groups independently came to the same conclusion as Shiraj's group. Way back in the early days of prog, it didn't take much time before many others were on RNG. Some are pretending like Shiraj's group was the only group in the world to come up with such a counter-meta, novel set up.
I'm a bottom-feeder casual, so my opinions literally don't matter here. But from an observer’s perspective, either every group trying to clear was filled with abysmal players, or a few people on a forum were too lazy to take this ubiquitous conclusion seriously. I can certainly get behind the take that people who haven't done it aren't the best equipped to comment(myself included), but forums exist for discourse. It isn't exactly a leap of logic that people would discuss based on the provided information, and that information made RNG seem impossible.
Quote: But from an observer’s perspective, either every group trying to clear was filled with abysmal players, or a few people on a forum were too lazy to take this ubiquitous conclusion seriously. So, you have a group that's saying melee is impossible but giving the impression they've only lightly tried it and immediately gave up. The same group says they've been trying RNG forever, hit lucky wild cards, etc.. and still nowhere near time limit. The possible conclusions are limited to: 1. Fight is impossible 2. Group is still missing huge amounts of RNG strat after trying it numerous times 3. Maybe there's a way to melee or magic work (magic is slower than RNG typically, so unlikely) It turns out that 2 was the answer. But again, this is premised on the information they shared. Beating up on the dude for taking them at their word is silly.
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It's perfectly reasonable that discussions center on the info presented. This is why I have tried to exclude you, Thorny, from Eiryl in my criticisms. No matter how productive or unproductive your conversations with the group were, they were, in fact, discussions. The reason I single Eiryl out is because he didn't have discussions, all his posts were lazy dismissals. And if anyone is going to "dismiss" a particular strat, that's well and fine so long as they, at the very least, spend more that 2 minutes looking into the strat.
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So before this would ever get out of hand, I'll clarify some things, yeah?
1. All of the info I ever provided to these forums was 1-2 steps behind our current progression. Which is why some of the roadmarks on the progression may seem jaded. I tried reaching out to many teams/groups to team up and work together to clear this fight, only 1 JP team did (shout out to ZeroZero's group). Xolla blocked me for asking to team up lol. So it was clear a race to first clear was still on the line for some people and I'm petty enough to not share current info to them if they didn't wanna team up. 2. As much as it may seem that I was one of the first people to deem the fight unbeatable this is simply untrue. I actually came to that conclusion a month or two after Teodor was discovered and En-doom was kicking our ***. Admittedly I gave up too quick, not gonna deny that. Just because I was the only person public about info on this fight doesn't mean not many groups were attempting. Mischief's group gave up and thought the fight was unkillable near the start, Xolla had the same idea and so did I. Most groups genuinely thought this fight was unkillable and many of us took breaks. However prior to the first clear I was never going to mention the groups who did believe this fight was unkillable just to save face and back my own reputation up, I didn't care. I only shared my opinion despite knowing other top groups gave up. 3. Ranged setup is the ONLY setup that seems reasonable even today. Kiting is not possible because Square Enix gave Null field a 26"+ range AND August's whole player model teleports too so melee can't even dps him, so melee while kiting is impossible (August seemingly only uses this TP move if you're far away which seems like SE's anti-kiting measure). Regular melee strat using RDM for distract so SV songs aren't required will not work because August gets resistance to debuffs over time, so re-applying Distract 30 minutes+ down the fight becomes increasingly hard to the point why bother. Dread spikes from Teodor that we have 0 way of removing is another barrier. (Yes yes what about TP battery August and WS teodor? there's too much aoe damage that you'd need to use Geo fade/indi fend to survive sacrificing a decent chunk of dps). TP denial strat doesn't work, I don't know if August/Naakuals have regain, but they seem to TP much more frequent after a couple Naakuals die and it's not likely to keep TP drained fully. (Paralyze aura from Ice lion would cause issues on that also). Magic burst setup - last I heard Mischief was trying that. We took their break as an indicator of It must not work. I'd assume because these mobs have ungodly amounts of magic evasion. Hope this clears some things up now that the fight has been done.
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I'm not really sure what your post changes. You didn't believe it was unkillable, you just lied and said it was to discourage others while holding back info? Who cares?
We're retroactively analyzing discussion on a thread you dominated, all discussions were premised primarily on what you said(whether or not you believed it). If you were lying and holding back, then it was just a waste of everyone's time. You got your win, what's the point of all this?
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Shiva.Thorny said: » I'm not really sure what your post changes. You didn't believe it was unkillable, you just lied and said it was to discourage others while holding back info? Who cares? We're retroactively analyzing discussion on a thread you dominated, all discussions were premised primarily on what you said(whether or not you believed it). If you were lying and holding back, then it was just a waste of everyone's time. You got your win, what's the point of all this? And nothing was a lie in that, I simply witheld some info whilst providing some other info in the hopes some of the other groups chimed in and we could have a talk about. Look at Iroha master trial thread vs Crystal Paradise/August MT threads. little to no discussion at all (despite many groups trying). I wanted to spark some discussion and work together on it from people actually interested; not arm chair generals who never stepped foot inside and thought the reasons strat didn't work was "group's not good enough". We all know if I had claimed we tried many different strats you alone Thorny would've dismissed it and pushed it to the side as "we need someone reputable to verify" so why would I be open when no other groups had chimed in. Was it naive of me to think other groups wanted to chim in and entertaining the forums was a good idea? Yeah in hindsight 100%. Oh wait you had already did that: Shiva.Thorny said: » For the groups that do everything with the same people, that is part of the gameplay loop, but it does tend to slow down things like this. For all of Shiraj's dedication to getting attempts in, he doesn't have a single prime weapon that can be used in the fight, and those are going to almost certainly be necessary to put up the proper damage in a melee-based setup. He is posting the most information, but his group is far from the best around, in gear or coordination. If Mischief's group was in here saying that it's unkillable there'd be considerably more weight behind it, but they've been oddly quiet. Point of this? You guys are trying to fact check someone who was unaware while they try defend me, better to be open.
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Asura.Shiraj said: » Point of this? You guys are trying to fact check someone who was unaware while they try defend me, better to be open. If you had written it up more honestly, like(imaginary scenarios, because I don't know what you went through, because you didn't say it or show any videos): -We came up 14m damage short, but we lost a bunch of time to repositioning and deaths. -We have trouble getting to Teodor with more than 5 min remaining, but we always waste time on X. -We do most of the naakuals fast, but 'naakual' usually takes like 10 min because last stand sucks. there's room for the reader to interpret a potential change resulting in victory. That's not how any of your posts read, you said things like: Shiraj said: around 70% of our weaponskills are 99k and rest are above 50k and we can't even get below half HP, Shiraj said: Sadly with current stuff we know, even if we could make every weaponskill deal 99k we'd still time out. There's just too much HP. Too much downtime during some adds etc. We're basically getting half HP with good RNG on adds + almost all weaponskill capping damage. Shiraj said: This is with dealing 99k for 70% of the fight btw. killing adds within 2:30-5 minutes. Shiraj said: On ranged we have 0 downtime except when hate reset happens which results in stopping dps for 10s~ give or take, then it's straight back onto it. Nobody forced you to share anything, and if you didn't respect me as an 'armchair general', then you didn't have to acknowledge my posts in the first place. But, you responded to every one of them and made these sweeping statements that are clearly half-truths. Obviously, if everything you said was true, RNG would not have been possible.
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Shiva.Thorny said: » If you had written it up more honestly, like(imaginary scenarios, because I don't know what you went through, because you didn't say it or show any videos): -We came up 14m damage short, but we lost a bunch of time to repositioning and deaths. -We have trouble getting to Teodor with more than 5 min remaining, but we always waste time on X. -We do most of the naakuals fast, but 'naakual' usually takes like 10 min because last stand sucks. there's room for the reader to interpret a potential change resulting in victory. That's not how any of your posts read, you said things like: My lack of understanding of just how potent the regen was for the reason the 14 million damage was needed. We were killing all Naakuals within 3-6 minutes at the time which seemed insanely fast in the grand scheme of things UNTIL we added bonus prebuffs with 4 crooked rolls. Then we're able to kill all Naakuals within 90s to 180s from pop (+good luck on add spawns and extra SV usages) which literally halves the amount of damage needed. Keep in mind even if you kill ALL Naakuals at 3 minutes each you're still slightly behind on dps. We didn't know that back then. You literally need to kill some Naakuals in under 2 minutes to keep up with the regen/dps race. Shiva.Thorny said: » The only reason people pushed for strategies besides RNG is because you repeatedly claimed that it wasn't possible on RNG, without giving any indication you had room for improvement. In actuality, there was substantial room for improvement, something that should be obvious to everyone in retrospect. We also started vod reviewing way more vigarously finding tiny details we could add extra dps in across the fight which overall resuted in a decent bit of dps coming in. For example GEO bubble uptime. geo calls out bubble died so I am covering heals on tank with the bard to allow geo breathing room to re-apply bubbles, those 5~ seconds bubbles were down added up over the 60 minute fight. The time saves we had from simply figuring out enmity thresholds alone was substantial over the fight. I calculated roughly how much enmity the Rangers were generating on August and Naakuals and would tell them exactly when to high/super jump as efficiently as possible to maximise dps AND limit how many jumps was needed. We didn't have that info until the last month. All of these tiny details we just recently tried to get right and perfect and when there's a bunch of tiny issues they add up to big time crunches when we looked at it from a wider perspective. Shiva.Thorny said: » Nobody forced you to share anything, and if you didn't respect me as an 'armchair general', then you didn't have to acknowledge my posts in the first place. But, you responded to every one of them and made these sweeping statements that are clearly half-truths. Obviously, if everything you said was true, RNG would not have been possible. And I actually did consider some of your stuff, a small part of what you said was very insightful(We actually dropped the RDM for another RNG because of your suggestion months back), however a majority of your posts just felt judgemental and how our opinion doesn't mean anything cos we aren't a "respected" group.
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thorny do you still play the game? or are you just another person nobody knows that is just talking about what could be? are you on asura come hang out with us lets see what your talking about. or are you gnna say how you multibox on a dead server where nobody can see what your doing? if you are just sitting somewhere on a dead server then prob just stfu? show us or be quiet because tbh i dnt think you have done anything relevant in a year two more? like most older players the game passed you and your just washed up. leave them alone be happy they found a way to kill it. all the good info they shared u shot down because why? you can math well? lmao you clearly cant play the game anymore thinking everything so black and white.
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I feel like 98% of the comments and messages I got from various people concerning the fight have just been very positive. I'm not sure what is the big issue here. There's a great writeup if you wanna try to do the fight for yourself, or if you want to do it a different way go for it. There is no need to be negative. The fight took 10 months to figure out and complete, and that is a hell of an achievement any way you might wanna spin it.
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I think it's bad *** that people still push XI's jobs to beat fights made intentionally unfair by the devs.
Having to have your backline zombie kite Teodor is legitimately unfair but possible within the game constraints, and absolutely reeks of the soul of XI. Hats off and Happy New Year!
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I made a legitimate slight against Shiraj and his group in the first thread, and I apologized for it. Everything since then has just been an attempt at discussion, and for some reason you guys take it as a personal insult.
Read the context behind this page: Everyone is attacking Eiryl for saying RNG was impossible. I took this personally, because I came to the same conclusion. Some cliffnotes: Shiraj, 10 months ago, in at least 6 different posts: RNG is impossible we can't do enough damage Eiryl and I: Ok, so something besides RNG is probably the way to win Shiraj: No, everything else is more impossible, but you definitely still can't win with RNG Meanwhile, you guys were still trying with RNG and must internally believe it's winnable. Then, people dig up the old thread to make fun of Eiryl, when the only reason RNG was perceived not to be possible is the group doing it saying so. None of this is an attack on your group, I am just pointing out that it's stupid to criticize people for believing what your own dude said. Asking if you used tools that would make it impossible for vanilla players is not an attack on your group or a negative comment. Commenting that there are ways to improve and maybe win without outside buffs is not an attack on your group or a negative comment. Stating that there are alternative melee strats that have not been thoroughly tried is not an attack on your group or a negative comment. I have nothing against anyone in this group, I am glad they won and shared their experience. I enjoyed reading their writeup, I complimented them on how they dealt with Teodor, and I talked with several members individually. I raised some questions because I am interested in the fight, and I don't believe that relying on anchor, JA0, and 6+ outside buffers is the only way to win. If you see any of these as attacks, it's because you're expecting a relentless stream of praise and nothing else. They are obviously a very strong group that worked hard for their win. That does not mean they found the only way to beat the fight, or that their strategy is beyond improvement. To pretend otherwise is silly, but they still don't owe me an answer to any of my questions. As far as the drooling post from Shang, I think most people do know who I am. But, even if I concede your point that I'm a 'washed up has been who cant play the game any more', why should that make my opinions less relevant? Why is this group and their following so hostile to any form of discussion that isn't straight praise?
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Shiva.Thorny said: » I made a legitimate slight against Shiraj and his group in the first thread, and I apologized for it. Everything since then has just been an attempt at discussion, and for some reason you guys take it as a personal insult. Read the context behind this page: Everyone is attacking Eiryl for saying RNG was impossible. I took this personally, because I came to the same conclusion. Some cliffnotes: Shiraj, 10 months ago, in at least 6 different posts: RNG is impossible we can't do enough damage Eiryl and I: Ok, so something besides RNG is probably the way to win Shiraj: No, everything else is more impossible, but you definitely still can't win with RNG Meanwhile, you guys were still trying with RNG and must internally believe it's winnable. Then, people dig up the old thread to make fun of Eiryl, when the only reason RNG was perceived not to be possible is the group doing it saying so. None of this is an attack on your group, I am just pointing out that it's stupid to criticize people for believing what your own dude said. Asking if you used tools that would make it impossible for vanilla players is not an attack on your group or a negative comment. Commenting that there are ways to improve and maybe win without outside buffs is not an attack on your group or a negative comment. Stating that there are alternative melee strats that have not been thoroughly tried is not an attack on your group or a negative comment. I have nothing against anyone in this group, I am glad they won and shared their experience. I enjoyed reading their writeup, I complimented them on how they dealt with Teodor, and I talked with several members individually. I raised some questions because I am interested in the fight, and I don't believe that relying on anchor, JA0, and 6+ outside buffers is the only way to win. If you see any of these as attacks, it's because you're expecting a relentless stream of praise and nothing else. They are obviously a very strong group that worked hard for their win. That does not mean they found the only way to beat the fight, or that their strategy is beyond improvement. To pretend otherwise is silly, but they still don't owe me an answer to any of my questions. As far as the drooling post from Shang, I think most people do know who I am. But, even if I concede your point that I'm a 'washed up has been who cant play the game any more', why should that make my opinions less relevant? Why is this group and their following so hostile to any form of discussion that isn't straight praise? I still don't understand why you haven't gone in and tried the fight yourself. You told me you did the other master trials fights, so why not this one? Shiraj holding hate in this conversation, Nefertarii going in for DPS.
Asura.Nefertarii said: » I still don't understand why you haven't gone in and tried the fight yourself. You told me you did the other master trials fights, so why not this one? I completely agree with this though, discussing Shiraj's mentality throughout prog isn't going to discover a new strat. I didn't try it earlier because I saw primes as a block and I'm just plain not willing to automate Sortie or hand-farm it for months to try one fight. It isn't interesting enough to repeat daily.
Prior to you guys winning, you also kept saying it was impossible, and I posited questions to try to gauge whether there was a way to actually win. Your responses continued to paint it as impossible. Again, farming months of Sortie for something that the most practiced people claim is impossible sounds silly. After your writeup, I've been planning to give it a try without Loughnashade just to see if it's as strict as you guys claim. But, I suspect that Aria is necessary based on the information provided. Crystal Paradise was a joke and I didn't need to farm anything new for it. I farmed quite a bit for the others, but I was more invested in the game at the time. If you dig through these forums, I actually multiboxed the first MT before any other English-speaking groups cleared it and made the writeup. I don't think that I'm better than Shiraj's group. Every clear and first I've gotten has been because I write great bots, not because I can play well. I don't have the time to commit to primes to try all the strategies I'd like to on this, so I wanted to engage through discussion. But, it's clear that I'm not going to get anything besides aggression from this group, so I'll just accept that I have nothing to offer. I apologize for any distractions I may have caused.
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There should be nothing wrong with having conversations about this stuff, just that Eiryl is stuck in as-hole mode and annoyed everyone.
I didn't say a god damn thing (in this thread) other than the obvious pup wouldn't have helped.
People need to pull their head out of my ***. Don't Beetlejuice me into your *** and then *** about it after. Keep my *** name off your keyboard.
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